WRCR 1700 needs help with donations big & small. They need to pay for new tower by the end of the year.
http://www.wrcr.com/category/gm-corner/
http://www.wrcr.com/category/gm-corner/
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WRCR 1700 AM Needs Donations
- Thread starter xmradiopro
- Start date
Where is this station? What's it's history?
The station apparently broadcast for 48 hours from a makeshift antenna at its new proposed site, in July, in order to keep its license from timing out, according to an STA request dated July 27.
It's apparently a commercial station. Why are they taking donations?
An AM frequency can be commercial or non-commercial. The ability to sell commercials, even if they are commercial, does not mean they can successfully generate the needed income. In the bigger markets many businesses that advertise use advertising agencies. The chances of an advertising agency placing a buy on a station like this are about equal to a snowstorm in hell. Being a non-profit might be a better angle at getting the needed cash even if they function as a commercial station. My only question is why was this not a pressing issue in July instead of at the last minute?
Granted some stations have very small audiences but that's no reason to toss in the towel. The story will be told based on the donations received. If the station pulls it off, I'm sure they'll serve their purpose. It looks like a pretty decent station for a fairly localized area if they get things back up.
The original WRCR signed on in 1965, as WRRC. I have a picture of their standalone building and their three towers. Very nice location.
At the time, Rockland County per se had only one other AM station -- WRKL 910, a daytimer.
This new kid in the county, WRRC 1300, had both earphones tied behind its back from the start, It was a 500-watt daytimer itself. Their format leaned more pop and top 40 than their rival. on 910 WRRC even had the trendy ''It's What's Happening' jingle package from Pepper Tanner. But all of their 500 watts went northeast. There were too many stations to protect, not just on 1300 but on 1290 and 1310. WRRC probably covered more bear and deer demos than people demos.
Both WRRC and WRKL eventually were issued nighttime broadcast licenses. WRRC's was a pittance ; WRKL's was turned into super-directional to protect Richmond VA and New Britain CT. To my knowledge, neither station ever showed up in a New York City ratings book. To my memory, both stations served their Rockland County audiences very well when they were strict daytimers.
The WRRC move (after several letter changes) to omni WRCR 1700 could be compared to new upholstery chairs on the Titanic II. Doomed from the start. It's probably legal -- I'm not an attorney -- for a commercial station to ask for listener-support donations. But continuing the 1700 venture seems fruitless.
* * * * * * *
@ luperm: Several area stations up this way have gone dark. Position us as north of Pottsville PA.
1590 WMIM Mt Carmel ..... 1530 WMBT Shenandoah ..... 1480 WISL Shamokin .... 1450 WPAM Pottsville .... WQIN Lykens 1290 .... theyve all gone dark.
The fly in the ointment, the discrepancy in that 'high-AM band attrition -- has been the original WHLM Bloomsburg.
To my memory, WHLM was a genuine full-time regional station. They had 4 sticks in a line off I-80 and US 11 near Bloomsburg. The towers are gone now. WHLM went dark a few decades ago. They were the first station I'd heard of (and the first respectable 'regional' station) to call it quits in this region.
WHLM braodcast on 550.
At the time, Rockland County per se had only one other AM station -- WRKL 910, a daytimer.
This new kid in the county, WRRC 1300, had both earphones tied behind its back from the start, It was a 500-watt daytimer itself. Their format leaned more pop and top 40 than their rival. on 910 WRRC even had the trendy ''It's What's Happening' jingle package from Pepper Tanner. But all of their 500 watts went northeast. There were too many stations to protect, not just on 1300 but on 1290 and 1310. WRRC probably covered more bear and deer demos than people demos.
Both WRRC and WRKL eventually were issued nighttime broadcast licenses. WRRC's was a pittance ; WRKL's was turned into super-directional to protect Richmond VA and New Britain CT. To my knowledge, neither station ever showed up in a New York City ratings book. To my memory, both stations served their Rockland County audiences very well when they were strict daytimers.
The WRRC move (after several letter changes) to omni WRCR 1700 could be compared to new upholstery chairs on the Titanic II. Doomed from the start. It's probably legal -- I'm not an attorney -- for a commercial station to ask for listener-support donations. But continuing the 1700 venture seems fruitless.
* * * * * * *
@ luperm: Several area stations up this way have gone dark. Position us as north of Pottsville PA.
1590 WMIM Mt Carmel ..... 1530 WMBT Shenandoah ..... 1480 WISL Shamokin .... 1450 WPAM Pottsville .... WQIN Lykens 1290 .... theyve all gone dark.
The fly in the ointment, the discrepancy in that 'high-AM band attrition -- has been the original WHLM Bloomsburg.
To my memory, WHLM was a genuine full-time regional station. They had 4 sticks in a line off I-80 and US 11 near Bloomsburg. The towers are gone now. WHLM went dark a few decades ago. They were the first station I'd heard of (and the first respectable 'regional' station) to call it quits in this region.
WHLM braodcast on 550.
Revision, sorry; my error.
The original WRRC 1300 sent their 500 watts northWEST.
Perhaps fittingly, an even newer sign-on 'neighbour' in NJ had to send the bulk of *their* wattage Northwest, as well. That was WPRJ Parsippany, on 1310. In the Sixties there beca,e almost too many new AM shoehorns in the NY Metro to count. Many of them were from North-Central and Northern NJ.* There were also proposed stations -- never finalized CP's -- on 1150 for Oyster Bay on Long Island; for 1590 in Port Chester, and an even more recent one on 550 for some COL near Greenwood Lake, on the NJ-NY border. It got so that most of these stations searching for some of that Madison Avenue revenue could no longer could settle in the NJ Meadowlands or on City Island off the Bronx and shoot their main beams toward and through Manhattan. There was no more room to try and wedge a slice of that big apple!
* WRRC 1300, Nanuet NY (the original WRCR)
WGCH Greenwich CT 1490
WRAN Dover NJ 1510
WJDM Elizabeth NJ 1530 (now on 1660)
WVNJ Oakland NY 1160
WBRW Somerville NJ 1170
WDJZ Bridgeport CT 1530
WFIF Milford CT 1500
The earlier pioneers like
WINE 940 Danbury CT,
WRKL New City NY 910,
WKER Pompton Lakes NJ 1500, ANOTHER
WBRW, this one in Brewster NY on 1510, and WERA Plainfield NJ on 1590.
Virtually all of those stations got licensed to places within the actual, measured NYC market.
Outlying stations that were licensed to do some full-service to their COLs should have continued to do just that. But too many prohibitive conditions and factors arose and made matters too-little-too-late. Hey -- I like WRCR/WRRC/WKQW et al. But in 2018, 1700 probably has to go about super-serving their own COLs and those in the main signal. Forget about acting like a toll booth to NYC for commuters. Lose any syndicated stuff ; it's unnecessary at best and anathemic at worst. WRCR first has to prove its value to its own community and treat the potential audience with genuine regard before asking for money. That is how broadcasting used to succeed in smaller communities. Nowadays, that appears to be the only option. Build it and they will come. But don't expect 'them' to subsidize the construction.
(Just my opinion)
The original WRRC 1300 sent their 500 watts northWEST.
Perhaps fittingly, an even newer sign-on 'neighbour' in NJ had to send the bulk of *their* wattage Northwest, as well. That was WPRJ Parsippany, on 1310. In the Sixties there beca,e almost too many new AM shoehorns in the NY Metro to count. Many of them were from North-Central and Northern NJ.* There were also proposed stations -- never finalized CP's -- on 1150 for Oyster Bay on Long Island; for 1590 in Port Chester, and an even more recent one on 550 for some COL near Greenwood Lake, on the NJ-NY border. It got so that most of these stations searching for some of that Madison Avenue revenue could no longer could settle in the NJ Meadowlands or on City Island off the Bronx and shoot their main beams toward and through Manhattan. There was no more room to try and wedge a slice of that big apple!
* WRRC 1300, Nanuet NY (the original WRCR)
WGCH Greenwich CT 1490
WRAN Dover NJ 1510
WJDM Elizabeth NJ 1530 (now on 1660)
WVNJ Oakland NY 1160
WBRW Somerville NJ 1170
WDJZ Bridgeport CT 1530
WFIF Milford CT 1500
The earlier pioneers like
WINE 940 Danbury CT,
WRKL New City NY 910,
WKER Pompton Lakes NJ 1500, ANOTHER
WBRW, this one in Brewster NY on 1510, and WERA Plainfield NJ on 1590.
Virtually all of those stations got licensed to places within the actual, measured NYC market.
Outlying stations that were licensed to do some full-service to their COLs should have continued to do just that. But too many prohibitive conditions and factors arose and made matters too-little-too-late. Hey -- I like WRCR/WRRC/WKQW et al. But in 2018, 1700 probably has to go about super-serving their own COLs and those in the main signal. Forget about acting like a toll booth to NYC for commuters. Lose any syndicated stuff ; it's unnecessary at best and anathemic at worst. WRCR first has to prove its value to its own community and treat the potential audience with genuine regard before asking for money. That is how broadcasting used to succeed in smaller communities. Nowadays, that appears to be the only option. Build it and they will come. But don't expect 'them' to subsidize the construction.
(Just my opinion)
Your idea of local yokel radio sounds wonderful. But the reality was that nobody was listening. For many of the stations you listed I think that literally if the host walked outside and yelled at the top of his/her lungs, more people would have heard it than if he/she spoke into the microphone. Local yokel radio, especially within the confines of a large metro, is essentially dead. There are too many superior options.
Point taken, Luperm. Too many options (some of them actually listenable 
I just kind of winced at the term 'local yokel', though. It evoked images of the set of the movie 'High Noon'. Some big-name DJs and programmers got their starts in such places. I was merely suggesting that if the product isn't there in the first place (and WRCR isn't broadcasting on 1700 at present) then there's obviously too little clamour and support to expect followers to spring for something that doesn't exist yet.
It's too bad. WRCR 1700 was the last American station I heard here who played pop music in the evening, on AM.
I just kind of winced at the term 'local yokel', though. It evoked images of the set of the movie 'High Noon'. Some big-name DJs and programmers got their starts in such places. I was merely suggesting that if the product isn't there in the first place (and WRCR isn't broadcasting on 1700 at present) then there's obviously too little clamour and support to expect followers to spring for something that doesn't exist yet.
It's too bad. WRCR 1700 was the last American station I heard here who played pop music in the evening, on AM.
I contend even an AM in a metro outlier community can exist. It's about unduplicated programming and about monetizing that via the local businesses that has far too few options to create awareness. You're not going to need an armored truck to make those bank deposits but if you work it smart and lean, you should be able to pull it off. I worked a high on the dial daytimer in a big city. We simply programmed for two communities on the edge of the city and we pulled enough from the small businesses to survive and throw off a few bucks. Nope, we didn't have lots of listeners but we had some...enough to matter and survive. In essence we functioned as a small town station amid the city lights.
It looks like they are seeking help with a down payment. They are not on air, just online. That is a last gasp scenario in my book. It is certainly much easier to pull off when on the air. At least they're not 'Debbie Downers" and trying to do something.
It looks like they are seeking help with a down payment. They are not on air, just online. That is a last gasp scenario in my book. It is certainly much easier to pull off when on the air. At least they're not 'Debbie Downers" and trying to do something.
Maybe. It depends. Just a few years ago, Congress created something called LPFM. That's low power FM, which is intended to be "hyper local," or as you put it, "local yokel radio." Are they ratings powerhouses? No. Are they commercially viable? No. But do they exist? Yes. And they're licensed as non-commercial stations that are targeting specific communities. When you look at the New York metro, there really is no room on the FM dial for LPFM. Any spots have been taken by translators. But the AM dial is a lot more open. For a lot of people, broadcast radio is easier to tune in than online or satellite. So for them, hyper local AM may work.
@ Big A .....
Yet another factor in that silly, cosmetic, fixed, scornful LPFM vs translator skirmish -- as you know -- was that the rules for LPFM specified that no 'directional' LPFMs would be permitted or licensed. Translators (even higher powered than LPFM's) *were* allowed, free reign, to go directional.
I helped do some work up this way for some friends who wanted an LPFM. Long story. Short answer: Bigger radio than they wanted ALL the properties.
Yet another factor in that silly, cosmetic, fixed, scornful LPFM vs translator skirmish -- as you know -- was that the rules for LPFM specified that no 'directional' LPFMs would be permitted or licensed. Translators (even higher powered than LPFM's) *were* allowed, free reign, to go directional.
I helped do some work up this way for some friends who wanted an LPFM. Long story. Short answer: Bigger radio than they wanted ALL the properties.
The biggest factor between an AM and the LPFM is the lower cost of operation. I know many LPFM operators and some can survive on about $2,500 a year. Those that lease tower space obviously need much more.
I think it is in Kingston, NY, a couple of morning drive hours are leased, doing local programming. They survive and manage about 15,000 listening each quarter hour. While only a couple of hours a day, it demonstrates local content available nowhere else will bring the listeners to the station no matter if it's a so called dead in the water AM. As I recall, the little NPR outfit, Robin Hood Radio, took the other hours at one point, or at least that was the plan.
I think it is in Kingston, NY, a couple of morning drive hours are leased, doing local programming. They survive and manage about 15,000 listening each quarter hour. While only a couple of hours a day, it demonstrates local content available nowhere else will bring the listeners to the station no matter if it's a so called dead in the water AM. As I recall, the little NPR outfit, Robin Hood Radio, took the other hours at one point, or at least that was the plan.
15,000 listeners in Kingston sounds like a stretch. In any case there are anecdotal examples you can find to make any point. That does not change the fact that the overwhelming trend isn’t good. There are far more little stations that are struggling, as opposed to thriving. I’m not happy about that, but I can’t deny that it’s happening.
D
David_radiohead
Guest
Where is this station?
I agree with Luperm. Way too many AMs are struggling. Perhaps I am too much of an optimist but I feel solid programming, especially local, even on AM, can attract listeners. Certainly you need solid sales effort too. It's a long shot for sure but way too many AMs give up and don't even try.
I'm optimistic only in certain situations such as being the local station in an area with little or no local-focused radio. That can be a outer county of a city although that is likely the toughest. Those that live in the outer suburbs tend to have less sense of community and more radio choices. Areas where people live, work and shop in the coverage area tend to have stronger community ties and tend to find local radio more important. It can be a big fail with if large portion of the population commutes beyond the coverage area for work.
From markets I've looked at, the locally-focused station tends to do well when at least 80% of the local population lives and works in the general area. To drive home the point, one town where 83% worked and lived in the immediate area achieved 4 to 5 times the billing a similar sized community (population and retail sales) where 58% of the workforce lived and worked in the immediate area. In both instances upwards to 58 and 56 radio signals could be heard respectively. Both stations in the annual county ratings had about a 7 (which I considered good) but advertising dollars were the key. The community with 58% working in the immediate area had such a low 'pull factor' a station could not perform well. The 'pull factor' is described as population x per capita income multiplied by percentage of income spent in retail sales compared to actual retail sales in the county. If the retail sales potential based on per capita income and population is 100%, you compare to actual retail sales. In the community where 58% worked and lived in the area only 38% of retail dollars was spent locally while in the community where 83% worked and lived in the area 53% of retail dollars were spent in the immediate area. This alone can determine if a station can make it. If you want an idea of what I mean, Iowa had a nice online site with such data: https://www.icip.iastate.edu/about/recap
I'm optimistic only in certain situations such as being the local station in an area with little or no local-focused radio. That can be a outer county of a city although that is likely the toughest. Those that live in the outer suburbs tend to have less sense of community and more radio choices. Areas where people live, work and shop in the coverage area tend to have stronger community ties and tend to find local radio more important. It can be a big fail with if large portion of the population commutes beyond the coverage area for work.
From markets I've looked at, the locally-focused station tends to do well when at least 80% of the local population lives and works in the general area. To drive home the point, one town where 83% worked and lived in the immediate area achieved 4 to 5 times the billing a similar sized community (population and retail sales) where 58% of the workforce lived and worked in the immediate area. In both instances upwards to 58 and 56 radio signals could be heard respectively. Both stations in the annual county ratings had about a 7 (which I considered good) but advertising dollars were the key. The community with 58% working in the immediate area had such a low 'pull factor' a station could not perform well. The 'pull factor' is described as population x per capita income multiplied by percentage of income spent in retail sales compared to actual retail sales in the county. If the retail sales potential based on per capita income and population is 100%, you compare to actual retail sales. In the community where 58% worked and lived in the area only 38% of retail dollars was spent locally while in the community where 83% worked and lived in the area 53% of retail dollars were spent in the immediate area. This alone can determine if a station can make it. If you want an idea of what I mean, Iowa had a nice online site with such data: https://www.icip.iastate.edu/about/recap
I think if you give your audience something they cannot get elsewhere, your station will be a success whether it's an FM or AM station.
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