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And the October winner is...

guruofradio said:
6+ is not important, nor are monthly books. Business is done on 25-54 adults, 25-54 women, 25-54 men and then 18-34 on a three book average, some advertisers look at a six book.
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Actually buys can be much more specific, but they almost always fall in the broad 18-49 spectrum.

There are English dominant Hispanic Females between 25 and 44 buys. There are male 25-44 buys. There are broad 25-54 buys but they are made with some stations strong in the lower end, some in the middle and some at the top. There are income-based buys. There are even buys that look for strength in certain metro counties where the advertiser has locations. There are "no talk stations" buys, and there are "sports only" buys.

But your point is accurate: under 18 and over 55 are not demos that get much, if any buying activity.

And it can't be said enough that month to month wobbles are not significant unless they are multiple month trends and agencies seldom buy off one book... and they always discard the December and Holiday books in averages.
 
bobdavcav said:
While I agree, you missed the bigger point. If a station with really old demos is getting high 6+ numbers, something should be done to try to save that station if or when it decides to change format, because the people that listen to said station should have access to the music they want.
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A commercial station can not be forced to preserve a format that is not economically viable. In larger markets, a station aimed at 55 and over is going to have a hard time. The opportunities exist when a marginal AM tries some form of older-targeted format and maintains a very frugal cost structure.
 
AQH said:
Both will adjust, but neither The Sound or Warm are going to flip formats anytime soon.
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I kinda get the feeling we could be in for an absolutely merciless Lite Adult Contemporary pillow fight on the radio next year.
 
Re: 6+ numbers. How do Nielsen families (households) manage to get that rambunctious 6-year-old or 7-year-old of theirs to wear a meter around all the time?
 
CTListener said:
Re: 6+ numbers. How do Nielsen families (households) manage to get that rambunctious 6-year-old or 7-year-old of theirs to wear a meter around all the time?
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The hours of carriage for kids are less than for adults. And the family gets fairly significant rewards, so they help the kid comply.
 
CTListener said:
Re: 6+ numbers. How do Nielsen families (households) manage to get that rambunctious 6-year-old or 7-year-old of theirs to wear a meter around all the time?
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According to Lou Reed, there is the amazing classic child psychologist case study of a 5 year old girl in the New York City area named Jenny, who somehow possesses all the nihilism of a bright, but severely troubled teenager until she changes the station on her radio one fine morning (presumably to WABC) who could have been capable of that. (And something about amputations.)

But from the official record here, which is long, yet vague on follow-up, this action, combined with regular dancing sessions presumably helped her recover to be a strong and well balanced middle-age woman of around 53-54 today.

So I suppose it's alright....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dahqz-R49I
 
guruofradio said:
6+ is not important, nor are monthly books. Business is done on 25-54 adults, 25-54 women, 25-54 men and then 18-34 on a three book average, some advertisers look at a six book.
When you look at ratings with that in mind this market is very consistent. Adults on a three book book it's KISW, MOVIN, KIRO-FM. Women its MOVIN, STAR, THE END, Men it's KISW, KZOK, JACK. 18-34 is usually MOVIN, KISW and THE END. Stations will pop up or down for a book or two driven by a couple high listening panelists. KJR, WARM and THE SOUND are primarily 45+, but from time to time pop into the younger cells for a few books and then pop out.
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The last time this was posted here, the figures were 25-54A, 25-54W, 18-34A, 18-34W and 25-54M. This was before 18-49 became such a factor.
 
semoochie said:
The last time this was posted here, the figures were 25-54A, 25-54W, 18-34A, 18-34W and 25-54M. This was before 18-49 became such a factor.
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18-49 is the TV "broad stroke" demo.

In radio, many ethnic buys against Hispanics and African Americans do buy 18-49, but that is because the average age in those communities is younger.

18-49 is just one of the components of the broad 18-54 that most buys are within. Just a couple of weeks ago I asked several friends who are cluster market managers for groups about buying trends, and was told there seems to be more of a move away from straight 18-34 towards 18-49, but that in general market the fact is that there are essentially no teen buys and no 55+ buys.
 
bobdavcav said:
AQH, you may be right about cluster strategy, but as has been repeated over and over again, these are 6+ numbers which don't mean anything. If I understand correctly, KSWD could be leading the market far and away with a 9.3 share, but all of its listeners are over 55, while KRWM and its hypothetical 1.3 could be leading in 25-54. While I've made this example extreme on purpose, the point remains that KSWD, not KRWM would be the one to flip. My question if we saw anything like that, is where would all those older listeners go?
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All those old listeners go to Shag or Merrill Gardens and enjoy countless hours of AM 880 KIXI
 
guruofradio said:
6+ is not important, nor are monthly books. Business is done on 25-54 adults, 25-54 women, 25-54 men and then 18-34 on a three book average, some advertisers look at a six book.
When you look at ratings with that in mind this market is very consistent. Adults on a three book book it's KISW, MOVIN, KIRO-FM. Women its MOVIN, STAR, THE END, Men it's KISW, KZOK, JACK. 18-34 is usually MOVIN, KISW and THE END. Stations will pop up or down for a book or two driven by a couple high listening panelists. KJR, WARM and THE SOUND are primarily 45+, but from time to time pop into the younger cells for a few books and then pop out.
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You got some wack numbers there... We think you need to look again. YOY who's in the Top 5 W 25-54 and Adults. Star hasn't been top 5 with women in ANY day part since Clinton was in office. Their AM show in LONG in the tooth. Watch in the next 18 months they change. Seriously the sever cases of rectal cranium disorder in here is ass-tronomical
 
Bongwater said:
I kinda get the feeling we could be in for an absolutely merciless Lite Adult Contemporary pillow fight on the radio next year.
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Warm pushed the panic button several months ago by bringing back 70s titles and spending more on stealth marketing.

More to come from Factoria and other stations in the coming months and early 2019.
 
DavidEduardo said:


18-49 is the TV "broad stroke" demo.

In radio, many ethnic buys against Hispanics and African Americans do buy 18-49, but that is because the average age in those communities is younger.

18-49 is just one of the components of the broad 18-54 that most buys are within. Just a couple of weeks ago I asked several friends who are cluster market managers for groups about buying trends, and was told there seems to be more of a move away from straight 18-34 towards 18-49, but that in general market the fact is that there are essentially no teen buys and no 55+ buys.
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I'm pretty sure that you are the one who gave out those figures. You said that the money demos were moving from 25-54 to 18-49, the same as TV. It's been quite a few years ago now.
 
semoochie said:
I'm pretty sure that you are the one who gave out those figures. You said that the money demos were moving from 25-54 to 18-49, the same as TV. It's been quite a few years ago now.
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There definitely is a trend to more 18-49, but several years have gone by since I made the first observation. And I now think that 18-49 is being used more in place of 18-34 than vs. 25-54.

It's been well over a decade since Arbitron made 18-49 a standard demo in everything down to the (diary) Arbitrends software. Previously, they gave 18-34 and 25-54, but not 18-49 in the trends and other base-level systems, although 18-49 was available in the full quarterly diary based surveys. PPM has always had 18-49 as an easy option, but it is not much harder to do things like "23 to 37" and all kinds of other custom demos.
 
Goi said:
You got some wack numbers there... We think you need to look again. YOY who's in the Top 5 W 25-54 and Adults. Star hasn't been top 5 with women in ANY day part since Clinton was in office. Their AM show in LONG in the tooth. Watch in the next 18 months they change. Seriously the sever cases of rectal cranium disorder in here is ass-tronomical
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Just pulled up last quarter July/Aug/Sept and STAR finished second on the three book rolling 6a-7p 25-54w. 3rd in July, 5th in August and 2nd in Sept for a quarterly rolling of second place. MOVIN was in first all three months several other stations popped in and out of the top five each month. That is why buyers look at a three month rolling. In mornings STAR Morning show was third on a three month. KUOW was second, NPR does very well in AM drive in Seattle!

Surprisingly 18-34w STAR in mornings finished 2nd in July, 2nd in August and 2nd in Sept, behind MOVIN of course in first place. The surprising part is KISS finished third on the three book rolling 18-34w in AM drive outperforming the station which finished 8th. They also did better than the station 25-54w for the rolling three book. Begs the question, why get rid of your best performing day-part in core female demos, which I assume is the target of the station????
 
guruofradio said:
Begs the question, why get rid of your best performing day-part in core female demos, which I assume is the target of the station????
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Probably perceptual research showed a disconnect between the morning show and the music format (or the intended future music blend) making the expense unwarranted and the talent out of place.

This is sort of like the last years of Rick Dees on KIIS in LA: his audience was not the 10 AM onward audience. There was huge cume churn at 10 AM, and it cost them midday listening.
 
Makes sense. Stations can either age their music as their morning show ages or you probably have to make a change. Many CHR's with older morning shows then became HOT-AC stations to age with the audience. Others, like KISS in LA or Z-100 in NY stay in the format and the morning show goes elsewhere. Scott Shannon was and is a good example of that in NYC. Huge at CHR Z-100, then moved on to HOT-AC WPLJ and finally at Classic Hits WCBS. Did well at each NY stop. Maybe Bender would be a good choice for WARM or HOT where they seem challenged in mornings and his audience might follow as they age.
 
How long are Brooke and Jubal signed up for at Movin'? Wonder what their non-compete looks like. Isn't iHeart/ Premiere their syndicator? Just curious if we could see a talent grab here, with that show ending up at Kiss106.
 
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DavidEduardo said:


There definitely is a trend to more 18-49, but several years have gone by since I made the first observation. And I now think that 18-49 is being used more in place of 18-34 than vs. 25-54.

It's been well over a decade since Arbitron made 18-49 a standard demo in everything down to the (diary) Arbitrends software. Previously, they gave 18-34 and 25-54, but not 18-49 in the trends and other base-level systems, although 18-49 was available in the full quarterly diary based surveys. PPM has always had 18-49 as an easy option, but it is not much harder to do things like "23 to 37" and all kinds of other custom demos.
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Thank you for the update!
 
guruofradio said:
The surprising part is KISS finished third on the three book rolling 18-34w in AM drive outperforming the station which finished 8th. They also did better than the station 25-54w for the rolling three book. Begs the question, why get rid of your best performing day-part in core female demos, which I assume is the target of the station????
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And throw in Kiss changed again six months ago, about their 8th "adjustment" since Bender has been there.

To repeat, Bender was not the problem.


The New Chico said:
How long are Brooke and Jubal signed up for at Movin'? Wonder what their non-compete looks like. Isn't iHeart/ Premiere their syndicator? Just curious if we could see a talent grab here, with that show ending up at Kiss106.
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Hire the very same morning show Kiss is spending a lot of time right now denigrating? A move only iHeart would do.
 
AQH said:
To repeat, Bender was not the problem.
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We don't know that...

As I previously said, they may have done some perceptual research and found that the morning show was not a good match for the rest of the day and / or it might not match the direction they wanted the station to go.

It's often more than ratings that determines the on-air staff!
 
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