Three for me: Instant Replay, MacArthur Park and I Love the Nitelife. Judging from the names of some of the groups -- NYCC, Crown Heights Affair, Eastbound Expressway -- I have a feeling the popularity of those songs was limited to the New York club scene. At one point, Boston had TWO disco stations -- WBOS was first, but was quickly obliterated by WXKS after a very brief competition. I wonder how their playlists compared with those of WKTU. Big differences due to the distance from New York City, or was disco in its infancy so closely tied to New York that all the start-up disco stations played the same songs?
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And the most debated radio format is...
- Thread starter DMK
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Three for me: Instant Replay, MacArthur Park and I Love the Nitelife. Judging from the names of some of the groups -- NYCC, Crown Heights Affair, Eastbound Expressway -- I have a feeling the popularity of those songs was limited to the New York club scene. At one point, Boston had TWO disco stations -- WBOS was first, but was quickly obliterated by WXKS after a very brief competition. I wonder how their playlists compared with those of WKTU. Big differences due to the distance from New York City, or was disco in its infancy so closely tied to New York that all the start-up disco stations played the same songs?
It was not the only market with two disco stations. San Juan had an AM, WBMJ, which moved to disco from Top 40, and they were #2 or #3. Then I took an FM move-in, WDOY 96.5, to disco and rhythmic and became #1 in the first book. It was a fast react format, but it died in two years.
Yes, I was wondering about the format music library. I can see top area clubs swaying the currents.
Dallas/Fort Worth's KDNT FM was automated,so there must have been an service that offered the format. It sounds like something Peters Productions or the guys out of the Northwest (I forgot their name...Broadcast Programming???) offered. I remember getting a package from a company that offered an automated Disco format.I'm guessing they'd base it on current music charts versus what was being played in the nation's biggest name clubs. Disco did not have a long history for a substantial base library and it would seem the format would be hard pressed to stay on top of what was getting the most spins in key clubs in the area. It would seem anything not a 'current' might not be a good idea. I suppose they might have the edited singles for daytime play and extended versions for night...just a guess.
Perusing the WKTU playlist (that you for posting that) looks bizarre as I only recall 3 songs as well. It appears club driven versus chart driven.
I recall the station we were taking live was doing an automated top 40 format: two reels of currents refreshed weekly (17 each) and a dozen reels of 20 songs all within the past 5 years (34 currents; 240 base). The suggested rotation was 2/3rds currents and 1/3rd base. That was in 1978 and 1979. Ah, the memories of setting up that Autogram, inserting pins, filling carousels, changing reels!
Dallas/Fort Worth's KDNT FM was automated,so there must have been an service that offered the format. It sounds like something Peters Productions or the guys out of the Northwest (I forgot their name...Broadcast Programming???) offered. I remember getting a package from a company that offered an automated Disco format.I'm guessing they'd base it on current music charts versus what was being played in the nation's biggest name clubs. Disco did not have a long history for a substantial base library and it would seem the format would be hard pressed to stay on top of what was getting the most spins in key clubs in the area. It would seem anything not a 'current' might not be a good idea. I suppose they might have the edited singles for daytime play and extended versions for night...just a guess.
Perusing the WKTU playlist (that you for posting that) looks bizarre as I only recall 3 songs as well. It appears club driven versus chart driven.
I recall the station we were taking live was doing an automated top 40 format: two reels of currents refreshed weekly (17 each) and a dozen reels of 20 songs all within the past 5 years (34 currents; 240 base). The suggested rotation was 2/3rds currents and 1/3rd base. That was in 1978 and 1979. Ah, the memories of setting up that Autogram, inserting pins, filling carousels, changing reels!
Getting back to the topic, I'd say there seems to be a continuum of formats that seem to be highly discussed, and they are all formats that are either dying or don't do well. Yes Smooth Jazz gets lots of discussion, but also AAA, Soft AC, or super deep oldies like what KMCQ used to be. All 80s as a format didn't last that long, but I seem to be the only one that misses it, and I'm beginning to not miss it as much as I did when KYPT went away. As for AAA, about the only station I like even a little is the City out of Fargo, which needs presentation work. Fortunately Entercom managed to shut up the people who really wanted Soft AC in this market, and I actually think KSWD is a pretty good station, but not something I can listen to every day. KMCQ was too slow for my tastes, but some of the oldies stations that have been launched recently may not be that bad, though I haven't checked them out.
WRMZ (99.7), Columbus, Ohio ran an automated disco format. I really wonder how many national disco hits there could have even been.
I remember WOKV (103.5) Hamilton OH-serving Cincinnati but not a bad signal into Dayton at the time- in it's brief disco days. They backed off on the disco, eventually went rock, then came back as Urban WBLZ. This is the current Classic Hits WGRR. In the same area, a station that shoud have never tried to do anything hip, WPFB-FM (may have still been WPBF), Middletown, Ohio went disco as Disco 106. The format may have been part time.
When I was attending First Phone Wonder School in Sarasota, one of the stations I listened to was "Supermix 96" which had been 96 Fever a few months before. "Supermix" was disco, R&B with a few non-Urban pop hits thrown in. It didn't last long.
I remember WOKV (103.5) Hamilton OH-serving Cincinnati but not a bad signal into Dayton at the time- in it's brief disco days. They backed off on the disco, eventually went rock, then came back as Urban WBLZ. This is the current Classic Hits WGRR. In the same area, a station that shoud have never tried to do anything hip, WPFB-FM (may have still been WPBF), Middletown, Ohio went disco as Disco 106. The format may have been part time.
When I was attending First Phone Wonder School in Sarasota, one of the stations I listened to was "Supermix 96" which had been 96 Fever a few months before. "Supermix" was disco, R&B with a few non-Urban pop hits thrown in. It didn't last long.
The difference between smooth jazz, disco and soft AC and AAA and deep oldies is that the first three actually attracted large numbers of listeners for varying lengths of time. AAA has always been niche and best suited for noncommercial radio, and deep oldies was never a format at all, just a dream of musical completists and chart geeks.
But those first two were very narrowly defined, built around very specific music lists. A recent format that would be comparable would be EDM, electronic dance music, that was very popular a few years ago. Once that particular music goes out of style, or the artists stop making unique songs for that format, the format basically goes away. The thing about AAA or soft AC is the formats are widely defined, and can sustain themselves after a few artists stop having hits. However, those two formats mainly attract older listeners, so are less attractive for big signal commercial stations in major markets. The soft AC being done at KSWD could meet a similar fate as Jammin' Oldies if the music gets tired.
Yup. I'm in Houston and Smooth Jazz survives on Entercom's KHMX HD3, branded as "The Wave." Pretty much a continuation of the old Wave format that ran on (then) KHJZ from 2002-08. The format also survives on an HD subchannel in DFW.
I well remember the Disco format on KDNT--In fact, it was one of the most bizarre formats I have ever heard. You are right about the album versions, and a large part of the playlist was completely unfamiliar, even for those who had a pretty good knowledge of the Disco genre. The music had a harder edge than what I heard on other Disco formats at the time. In some ways it was a very early prototype for what would become EDM decades later.
Would be fascinating to hear a lengthy aircheck of the KDNT Disco format today.
Wilmington, NC still has Jammin’ Oldies with 99.9 FM there. They have to be one of the only ones left. http://www.jammin999fm.com
WCAU-FM in Philly was one of the first disco stations 1975, going from a solid gold format with a 4.5 rating to disco, never reaching more than a 1.8, they kept plugging until 1978, I believe with various forms of the format, Disco 98, Facinating Rhythm and other slogans but this is one disco station that never took off...
I think your dates are off... here is a WCAU-FM survey from late 1975, and unless there is a disco version of "At Seventeen" the station was fairly conventional; Duncan lists it as Adult Contemporary for 1976.
They were listed as "Rock" (before R&R invented "CHR" as a label) in that magazine in 1976 and 1977. In the Fall "American Radio" for 1978, they were listed as "Disco / Jazz".
This thread started in the Seattle section as a reaction to some comments about Smooth Jazz as a format. It's been moved to the Programming area because a number of the posts brought up interesting points on the lifespan of different formats, ranging from disco to rhythmic oldies to hip hop throwbacks. Even Beautiful Music and Standards got mentioned, so this seems to be a subject with many perspéctives and lots of opinions.
I didn't notice that you were a moderator, David. How long has this been the case?
Here's an interesting question, I wonder why many of the Classic Hip-Hop formats haven't broadened their playlists? It seems as if the stations running the format are getting out of it, but stations like KHTP and Q102 in SF are more of a broad-based rhythmic format and seem to do ok.
About a year. It's a fairly easy task, as nearly all posts are appropriate. One objective of moderation is to keep spam out of the system, as that just annoys everyone. The rest is just common sense and civility.
Thank you. It may be easy but sounds time consuming.
Part of the problem was that Smooth Jazz was initially seen as being trendy and upscale. People listened to it because it made themselves feel classy and sophisticated. But once the format became common enough that you began hearing it on the Muzak system at K-Mart, and they started watering down the format with more and more pop music (I even heard CD 101.9 play the Police's "Every Breath You Take"!), Smooth Jazz lost that image and just came to be seen as the current version of Easy Listening. And attempts to spice it up by adding things like "Chill" music just ended up upsetting its core audience instead of attracting more new listeners.
That being said, Smooth Jazz is being rediscovered by some young people today through "Vaporwave" -- a niche electronic music genre:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporwave
As Wikipedia says, "Early incarnations of vaporwave relied on the sampling of sources such as smooth jazz, retro elevator music, R&B, lounge music, and dance music from the 1980s and 1990s, with the music made of brief, cut-up sketches, cleanly produced, and composed almost entirely from samples, along with the application of slowed-down chopped and screwed techniques, looping, and other effects."
That being said, Smooth Jazz is being rediscovered by some young people today through "Vaporwave" -- a niche electronic music genre:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporwave
As Wikipedia says, "Early incarnations of vaporwave relied on the sampling of sources such as smooth jazz, retro elevator music, R&B, lounge music, and dance music from the 1980s and 1990s, with the music made of brief, cut-up sketches, cleanly produced, and composed almost entirely from samples, along with the application of slowed-down chopped and screwed techniques, looping, and other effects."
In my opinion, Smooth Jazz was too much of the same sound alike material. I felt the skew toward urban was too restrictive.
I however loved KBCT in Waco. They generally went 25% non-jazz (pop hits the audience knew) and went 1/3rd to 1/2 in morning drive. They even tossed in a bossa nova or exotica tune. Quiet Village by Martin Denny was one such title.They'd play a reggae tune every few hours (not the hardcore but Bob Marley known tunes, for example). They'd play stuff like 'Take Five' by Dave Brubeck and some John Klemmer, for example. Although the station played all the urban skewing songs, it was part of a larger group of songs, many of which were never played by smooth jazz stations (Summer Breeze by Seals & Crofts, At 17 by Janis Ian)
I enjoyed the break these songs offered. I figured this was a smart thing to do because those pop songs were likely what the listener once tuned to before the smooth jazz format took off.
On the other hand, an avid smooth jazz fan I know complained the local station played vocals, preferring an entirely instrumental format.
I however loved KBCT in Waco. They generally went 25% non-jazz (pop hits the audience knew) and went 1/3rd to 1/2 in morning drive. They even tossed in a bossa nova or exotica tune. Quiet Village by Martin Denny was one such title.They'd play a reggae tune every few hours (not the hardcore but Bob Marley known tunes, for example). They'd play stuff like 'Take Five' by Dave Brubeck and some John Klemmer, for example. Although the station played all the urban skewing songs, it was part of a larger group of songs, many of which were never played by smooth jazz stations (Summer Breeze by Seals & Crofts, At 17 by Janis Ian)
I enjoyed the break these songs offered. I figured this was a smart thing to do because those pop songs were likely what the listener once tuned to before the smooth jazz format took off.
On the other hand, an avid smooth jazz fan I know complained the local station played vocals, preferring an entirely instrumental format.
The original Wave in Los Angeles in 1987 was no such thing. It was constructed to target a lifestyle group that was very LA at the time. After a short time, it was discovered that the new age stuff had to be limited or dropped, and smooth r&b was increased, as was light jazz. The target became divided between moms who praccticed yoga and African Americans.
The problem was in having a format that needed more music than the recording industry was producing. So a lot of "next best" music got added.
Remember that the format creators never set out to make a "smooth jazz" station. In fact, the term "smooth jazz" came from a listener one-on-one interview done in Chicago for what would become WNUA. WNUA did not want to license KTWV's "The Wave" name, so when a listener (female of color) said, "it's sort of like smooth jazz" the buzzers went off and they put that term out as the positioning statement.
That's not what the term was intended to mean when it was first applied to the pseudo Wave format at WNUA. Radio's smooth jazz was not particularly "jazzy" as it was a texture and blend format, including some pop, r&b, new age and very light "piano bar" jazz. "Smooth jazz" for radio in the early 90's was a positioning statement, not a genre of music.
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