atthestars
Star Participant
OK. good to know. So the WIP-HD2 ratings may be combined straight into the KYW-AM ratings. Thank you!
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OK. good to know. So the WIP-HD2 ratings may be combined straight into the KYW-AM ratings. Thank you!
Miguelito
Star Participant
Interesting that Entercom would be doing that with some but not all of their stations here. If so, there must be a strategy behind it though.
Miguelito
Star Participant
I knew Radio 104.5 did alright (ratings-wise) but I didn't realize quite how well. They're tied (with Power 99) for second in 18-34. Only More-FM has, err, more listeners in the demo. I've seen quite a few folks saying that people aren't listening. This seems to indicate otherwise!
The issue is not the listenership for this station, but rather the sales. The station is not able to monetize the high listening: it has around a 5 share of commercial radio listening, but only about a 1.7 share of revenue in the market.
Miguelito
Star Participant
Yes, this has been covered ad infinitum. It is a shame that advertisers don't care for this format (for whatever reason) because if they're going for 18-34 year olds, it seems they may be able to reach more of them with WRFF than with Q102 (though I'm sure there's quite a bit of cross-selling attempts). At the end of the day, if they won't buy, they won't buy! The station sounds good so I'm not really sure what else they could do to convince advertisers (after all these years) to start. It's a shame, really.
CTListener
Walk of Fame Participant
Apparently, the stereotype advertisers buy into is one of a 20-something slacker playing video games in mom's basement while holding down a part-time job at Walmart. It's been out there for, as you say, all these years, and you'd think that, if it were completely false, the advertisers would have found out by now and taken a second look at alternative/modern rock radio, wouldn't you?
Miguelito
Star Participant
I assume (or hope, at least) that there's research involved. Everything is sliced & diced down to hundreds and thousands of data points. Maybe advertisers are responding to actual data indicating that a good portion of the format's listeners just aren't a good target. That having been said, I can't quite wrap my head around the prospect that Alt Rock listeners might be low-wage workers who don't buy stuff while advertisers are champing at the bit to buy ad time at CHR.
CTListener
Walk of Fame Participant
Besides the fact that the music played at CHR radio is more popular than alt, the listeners CHR attracts are a whole lot more demographically diverse. Women still do much of the day-to-day family spending, and CHR delivers female listeners by the boatload while alt has a big problem attracting any at all. CHR will also bring in African-American and Hispanic listeners, to a certain extent. Alt pretty much strikes out on that front. Yes, that means a certain number of low earners will be listening to CHR, but there are far more advantages to having a larger, diverse audience to pitch products to than a smaller, demographically (and economically) limited one.
One of the issues not frequently noted is that the sales for an alternative station like WRFF are pretty much focused on the interest in the 18-34 and 18-49 male segment. In many markets, the sports station delivers males much more efficiently and with a broader cume (reach) than an alternative station. Next, the classic rock station also generally outdelivers the alternative station.
In Philadelphia, there is a reason why WMMR outbills WRFF by five to one and WIP outbills WRFF by about three to one and WMGK by four to one: WIP, WMGK and WMMR deliver the non-ethnic target better, and there is little budget left for WRFF. Add in male buys for WDAS, and there is even less left for WRFF.
On the other hand, the alternative stations in LA both beat the classic rock station, and LA is a poor sports town... so the alt stations skim the cream off that vat of money.
So each market has its differences, and available revenue is as much a factor as the availability of listeners.
Advertisers, as mentioned in my previous post, have the alternative of WIP and both WMMR and WMGK to reach male audiences. Then one has to look at WXTU and WDAS to complete a full male buy. By the time you get to WRFF, not much money left.
Steve Green NEPA
Star Participant
As well, it's not as though WRFF is a caboose with a busted axle dragging down the whole cluster.
If it's making its own way revenue-wise, it can afford to whistle and continue on course. Some new act or trend or show might pop up. And there's always the non-terrestrial communications and publicity options (an area where iHeart is well-versed) And what would they change the format to anyway? Back to Sunny?
If it's making its own way revenue-wise, it can afford to whistle and continue on course. Some new act or trend or show might pop up. And there's always the non-terrestrial communications and publicity options (an area where iHeart is well-versed) And what would they change the format to anyway? Back to Sunny?
I noticed today checking out the 8 music/video outlets on my cable system. All of them are non stop urban talk/hip hop//rap and R&B of some sort. It's like any type of Pop/Rock or Alternative product doesn't exist. Apparently Madison Avenue wants to shove and push one type of music, so it amazes me how Rock and Alternative formats can still be around when this music is TOTALLY ignored on any type of outlet. Just the facts, Fuse a one time rock outlet way back when is now on the urban bandwagon. There is plenty of Rock product out there but the pie is not sliced fair.
Who said the pie has to be sliced fair? We're talking about popular taste. Popular taste isn't fair or equal either. Not every record released sells the same amount, not every concert can fill a stadium, not every song gets to #1. Advertisers are just interested in reaching the biggest group. Yes that's not fair, but why do you think they call it "alternative?" It's not meant to be popular. It's meant to be an alternative to what is popular. The minute an alternative artist becomes popular, they're called sellouts. If you want to pay for your narrow niche, you can. That's what this is about. All forms of music are available, but some attract large audiences, while others don't. That's just how things are.
Cable is supported by the viewer base, and cable systems, and most particularly the MSOs, make deals to carry channels that will attract viewers (or, today, keep them from cutting the cord). They actually do quite a bit of research into likes and dislikes and know what channels make their lineup attractive.
Since cable systems (and satellite deliverers) pay fees to the channels they carry, they do not want to be paying for or wasting channel space on options that are not of much viewer interest. That includes music channels.
A good example is seen with satellite radio. At one point, they had about 8 channels on the main tier with Spanish language talk and music. The subscriber count did not benefit from the many options, so they reduced the number of channels drastically. They have a limited resource, and they want each channel to be attractive to a significant number of listeners, so they eliminate the channels that don't help them make money.
AbrahamJSimpson
Walk of Fame Participant
Oh David, there you go using facts and reason again. 
Oh David, there you go using facts and reason again.
Fortunately, that's just a venal sin and not a mortal one.
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