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Stanton on AM Radio

DavidEduardo said:
And Pandora has local sales teams in most of the larger markets, generally with more sellers than the average radio station in the same city.
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Quite often because they're not actual employees with salary and benefits, but strictly commission. Which is fine if you combine that with other clients.

CarAgencyGuy said:
They thought it would increase their revenue to have four :15's instead of one :60.
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That's been my experience too. As I said, it's all about multiple impressions. They even design their :15s to be run in the same break.

CarAgencyGuy said:
We all started demanding to be first spot in the break and the whole thing fell apart pretty quick.
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I've been offering that as an option for years and no one has taken me up on it.
 
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iamarussianpirate said:
Pandora isn't radio, and most shops don't look at it as radio. I never see Pandora included on radio RFPs.
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What I see is that Pandora, for buys, is used as a radio replacement, but the budget is placed out of new media allocations. But the money got into that new media allocation by taking it from radio. However, that is all in the planning phase, not the buying stage.

Also David is spot on (no pun) in saying that this is something radio needs to do as an industry for survival purposes. However, I disagree that if all stations went this route revenue would be the same. Ratings would theoretically go up, but there's a ceiling and only so many quarter hours to go around. Even if current radio listeners increase their radio listening and non-radio listeners suddenly start listening, CPP's will have to go up and buyers will need to be okay with that. Alternatively CPP's can remain the same and operators will need to realize that less revenue and a healthy medium are better than no revenue and an unhealthy medium.
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While you are right that only stations that gain audience can benefit from lower spot loads and higher rates. The second step is to work towards higher CPP rates market-wide on agency buys, but that is a big leap of faith as getting planners to put more money into what they feel is a stagnant or fading medium is not going to be easy.

The funny thing is that when FM started to pull away from AM in the early 70's, most major market FMs at the time had 8 minute commercial loads (in four 2-minute sets), with 10 being considered high; this was the FM sector trying to separate itself from the many AMs that were running 18 minutes an hour in the 60's. Now the average music FM has around 14 minutes an hour in two 7 minute sets.
 
CarAgencyGuy said:
I had a client REQUEST a :60 spot earlier this year. I joking told them could write a great :45 spot but was never quite sure what to do with the last :15 (repeat the client's name, say the url). We went to the studio and the production director/engineer said he couldn't remember the last time HE did a :60 spot.
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I come from a radio culture in Latin America where a 30 is long, and 10's and 15's are very common. For much of my career I never sold a 60. In fact, at one station we would not sell anything over a 30 as we found them tedious.

There has to be some historical reason why the 60" became currency in the US, and not in most of the rest of the Hemisphere.

Of course, stations generally know that station promos should be short. A friend says, "there is no such thing as a 60 second promo" and his reasoning is that if you can't explain a promotion or feature in 30" or less, it is to complicated for the listener to follow anyway. I'd personally say the same thing about most radio commercials.

Of course, we have clients who want price/item ads, and cram the stuff in like a full page newspaper insert! And then there are those who want a comedy approach, with a little story to make the point; most of those are bad and the ones that aren't are tedious after hearing them a couple of times.
 
iamarussianpirate said:
Pandora isn't radio, and most shops don't look at it as radio.
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That may be the attitude at certain agencies, but they need to get out in the real world. Listeners consider Pandora to be radio. If you probe further, they may say it is "internet radio" but when more and more people are using smartphones and smart speakers to deliver "radio" the distinction is being rapidly erased.
 
I agree with iamarussianpirate regarding KNDD.

The fact an Alternative station is posting such strong numbers on a consistent basis across such a wide range of age demographics means KNDD is very healthy. I'd rather have a 0.9 power ratio with 3rd or 4th place numbers in Adults 25-54 than, say, a 1.2 power ratio with a 10th or 11th place ranking.

Alternative stations in other major markets often fare worse than KNDD's 0.9, sometimes much worse. Mr. Eduardo has documented repeatedly the horrific power ratio of Radio 104.5 in Philadelphia.

BTW, flat revenue over a 10-year period is not at all a bad thing compared to commercial FM radio at large. Many markets have seen their overall revenue decline during that timeframe. I have no idea how the Seattle market as a whole has trended during that period.

Alternative - especially an alternative station geared toward upscale listeners - is a place where the "two minute promise" can work well. I would not recommend it for spoken word radio, however. Loyal talk radio listeners aren't button pushers like so many folks who listen to music radio.
 
MarkW said:
BTW, flat revenue over a 10-year period is not at all a bad thing compared to commercial FM radio at large.
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I doubt any major operator would agree. Then again, this is why CBS & Disney sold their radio groups. And why lots of other media companies have avoided radio completely.
 
The most compelling reasons why AM radio is dying are mentioned within the link to Electronic Design. AM served its purpose when FM was not yet developed. Anything you can do on AM, FM does it better. The sound quality is superior; the range is predictable. Cost of operation is often much less, and far less real estate is involved. The FCC's AM Revitalization plan doesn't do anything for AM, it just moves the audio from the sub-quality AM band to the FM band, and the only thing keeping many AMs on the air is the opportunity to repeat the signal on the FM band. Older radio listeners stay with AM because they grew up with AM and many don't even know there is a new-fangled thing called FM. From personal experience I've found numerous AM listeners that keep listening through significant format changes.
 
Trying not to sound like a “Negative Nancy”, I cannot wait until the supposed “death” of AM. When licenses start to go for less than some people keep as pocket change, and you start seeing folks running 250-500 watts as basically a hobby off a small tower in their backyard, things will get very interesting very quick.

I think someone earlier mentioned the best thing a LPFM can do is find a compelling format for a larger area, since the time may come fairly soon when an AM license with a much larger range may be had for cheap/free as a donation
 
seattlesarchiebunker said:
When licenses start to go for less than some people keep as pocket change, and you start seeing folks running 250-500 watts as basically a hobby off a small tower in their backyard, things will get very interesting very quick.
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They can do that now with Part 15 licenses. Anything bigger would require a more expensive tower and transmitter. And truthfully, if no one is listening, why would someone want to devote time and money to an expensive hobby? My buddy has been an amateur radio guy for years, and even he gave up on it recently because there aren't many people listening.
 
seattlesarchiebunker said:
Trying not to sound like a “Negative Nancy”, I cannot wait until the supposed “death” of AM. When licenses start to go for less than some people keep as pocket change, and you start seeing folks running 250-500 watts as basically a hobby off a small tower in their backyard, things will get very interesting very quick.

I think someone earlier mentioned the best thing a LPFM can do is find a compelling format for a larger area, since the time may come fairly soon when an AM license with a much larger range may be had for cheap/free as a donation
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The issue with AM is the cost of the technical facility. Even with newer antenna designs, there is a need for a sizable piece of land nand thus zoning issues. The equipment, once you get over 100 watts, is costly.

And whatever the power, AM does very strange things at night even on low power. I remember hearing a 50 watt station from Puerto Rico in Cleveland, OH, on 780 AM... so there is definitely the interference issue even at low power.
 
DavidEduardo said:


The issue with AM is the cost of the technical facility. Even with newer antenna designs, there is a need for a sizable piece of land nand thus zoning issues. The equipment, once you get over 100 watts, is costly.

And whatever the power, AM does very strange things at night even on low power. I remember hearing a 50 watt station from Puerto Rico in Cleveland, OH, on 780 AM... so there is definitely the interference issue even at low power.
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David is correct—I doubt we will see too many hobby broadcasters able financially or legally run a 5-tower array in their backyard pumping out XX kW/h. But considering an AM license (not the tower site, which sold for near seven digits) on the Eastside recently changed hands for $5,000, the opportunity is there for some broadcast band bargains and will only get cheaper in the future. I do believe this station is broadcasting from the former CE’s backyard with a long wire and 250 watts. Not the best situation, but probably better range than a LPFM in a congested metro like Seattle. Plus, less onerous rules regarding programming, underwriting, and ownership. Like BigA said though, if a tree falls in a forest...

I think 20 years from now, the AM dial will be vastly different in most markets. Everything (and I mean basically every standalone AM not attached to a translator) will be niche religious, ethnic, or community broadcasters who “traded up” from a LPFM or hamstrung class A. Your big stations that will be able to cut through the interference like KIRO and KOMO will do well for awhile, but even then the Seahawks and/or Mariners will eventually want to be heard on FM, and the sports talk will have to migrate accordingly.
 
That station found itself in its current predicament because the two companies that occupied the site you're talking about decided against purchasing the property. That put one station out of business and the other on a STA from sunset til midnight. The monetary figure was the engineer's fee for taking the station down. They gave him the license in trade. Add insult to injury... it was $3,000, not $5,000, adjusted for expenses.

If he finds a set of towers that he can land on in this market, he could make some real money for it, even though it is an AM. As is said here, niche programmers still have a use for AM, and the stations are not quite devalued to donation status... yet.
 
TheBigA said:
They can do that now with Part 15 licenses. Anything bigger would require a more expensive tower and transmitter. And truthfully, if no one is listening, why would someone want to devote time and money to an expensive hobby? My buddy has been an amateur radio guy for years, and even he gave up on it recently because there aren't many people listening.
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They would do it for the same reason guys look at stars with telescopes instead of online, build model train layouts ,or the ham radio guys -- they are still around, but yeah -- they are less and less active on the bands. But there are people who would do it just because they have an interest in the lower technology stuff, the old-school ways of doing things. That's the thing about the word "hobby", it implies something that is unnecessary that no one else it probably interested in aside from some few aficionados nationwide. It's just the way it is.
 
Grounded Grid said:
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If he finds a set of towers that he can land on in this market, he could make some real money for it, even though it is an AM.
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I doubt it. Your average retiree can't afford the gear to duplex an AM with another, let alone build a stand-alone full AM site. I don't think Jim is independently wealthy enough to make that investment. Even if they could put those resources together, considering the number of built stations in the Seattle area, it is unlikely an AM station that has effectively been silent for several years would fetch much.
 
DavidEduardo said:

And then there are those who want a comedy approach, with a little story to make the point; most of those are bad and the ones that aren't are tedious after hearing them a couple of times.
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I've only known one advertiser who did a good job of this. He was a car dealer, and he hired a standup comedian with radio experience to write and perform in his spots. The format was always the same: 5 seconds of disclaimer (with a recognizable music bed to identify what was coming), 25 seconds topical comedy sketch (which usually poked fun at the car buying experience), and 30 seconds of sell. They were the only spots where I ever saw listeners actually turn up the radio when the disclaimer hit because they knew something funny was coming, so we always played them first in the break. They were switched out quickly enough that you didn't get tired of the jokes.

But that is the exception. Most radio spots written to be funny, aren't. Most car dealer spots are annoying and are written to entertain the dealer's management.
 
The Adopt US Kids PSAs are really good, probably some of the most creative spots out there right now. I had the opportunity to work with the folks down at Jack Straw for four summers, and one of those we produced PSAs. I am not sure how they would be responded to in the listener community, but we sure had fun producing them.
 
"I do believe this station is broadcasting from the former CE’s backyard with a long wire and 250 watts."

He was on the air with a long wire, briefly. If you know the area it was east of 405 and north of 520, about a mile due west of Microsoft HQ. A few blocks north of the Skate King- RIP. I drove around- seemed like roughly a mile radius listenable signal. He then filed for silence, and also got himself an FM translator CP on Cougar Mt. (very low power but LOTS of height.) I don't know the man or his intentions, but perhaps he is waiting for the FCC to go the next step in "revitalization" and let the AMs that are feeding the translators voluntarily die. I know he is a long time pro in the area and so I figure he knows what he is doing. Then he can just kick on the 98.5 "translator" and feed it directly.
 
The New Chico said:
"I do believe this station is broadcasting from the former CE’s backyard with a long wire and 250 watts."

He was on the air with a long wire, briefly. If you know the area it was east of 405 and north of 520, about a mile due west of Microsoft HQ. A few blocks north of the Skate King- RIP. I drove around- seemed like roughly a mile radius listenable signal. He then filed for silence, and also got himself an FM translator CP on Cougar Mt. (very low power but LOTS of height.) I don't know the man or his intentions, but perhaps he is waiting for the FCC to go the next step in "revitalization" and let the AMs that are feeding the translators voluntarily die. I know he is a long time pro in the area and so I figure he knows what he is doing. Then he can just kick on the 98.5 "translator" and feed it directly.
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For a while I heard it at night on 1460 KHz periodically, rebroadcasting the La Familia station that is based in the Seattle area. It was kind of cool to hear it, actually. Sort of like hearing a Part 15 AM station, because I knew the rumor was that the owner was using a dipole or wire antenna somewhere near the original location.
 
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