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Why is KCBS AM in San Francisco but KCBS TV is in Los Angeles?
- Thread starter Miles917
- Start date
Because the FCC allows it.
Seriously, for many years, call letters for radio and TV had to be co-located in the same city. Because KCBS had been in SF for a long time (it was originally KQW), CBS had to use KNXT in LA, which was related to KNX radio. Why they didn't use KNX-TV, I have no idea.
For some reason, I think San Francisco was considered the "media" center on the West Coast in those early days. Not only was KCBS-AM in San Francisco, so was KNBC - 680 AM and 99.7 FM. Channel 4 in Los Angeles was KRCA until about 1963 or so. When NBC switched the KNBC calls to Channel 4 - KNBC radio in SF became KNBR, which the AM remains to this day. In those days, Keith E4 already pointed out, the FCC required that call letters be co-located. NBC television in San Francisco in those days was not an O&O - so it was not KNBC, bur KRON (owned by the SF Chronicle).
By the time CBS decided to change KNXT Channel 2 to KCBS (1980s?), that rule was no longer in effect. Speculating, but since KNX radio and KCBS AM were both highly rated and respected stations, it didn't make sense to mess with those calls for the radio side...if it ain't broke, and all that. The KCBS-FM call letters did move from SF to LA.
Another call letter rule that has changed over the years, IIRC, is that the same call letters in a market can be split up between two owners. This happened in San Francisco when ABC (Disney) sold off KGO-AM radio to Citadel, but the calls remained on both the radio and TV. About a decade ago, when prominent KGO radio talk host Bernie Ward was arrested on pedophilia charges, ABC 7 news would report on it, and always add a tagline that KGO-TV was not co-owned with KGO radio...to avoid any stigma blowing back on Disney, I assume.
http://www.kabc.com/2016/04/06/nbc4-6-oclock-news/
Ever Since Cumulus ended the broadcast contracts to Disney's ABC Radio News back in 2015. KABC-AM allowed simulcasts of KNBC4 News.
http://www.kabc.com/on-air/
But then again KABC radio has been separated from Disney ownership for a decade though.
Also the KCBS San Francisco calls that was from a time when CBS was having their affiliate deals issue between KSFO and KQW and kqw won that deal in 1949
Ever Since Cumulus ended the broadcast contracts to Disney's ABC Radio News back in 2015. KABC-AM allowed simulcasts of KNBC4 News.
http://www.kabc.com/on-air/
But then again KABC radio has been separated from Disney ownership for a decade though.
Also the KCBS San Francisco calls that was from a time when CBS was having their affiliate deals issue between KSFO and KQW and kqw won that deal in 1949
There are a couple of pieces to the answer.
Until after WWII, the networks didn't seem to have any interest in branding their biggest O&Os with network-related callsigns. CBS in New York was "WABC" on radio (from the old Atlantic Broadcasting Company) and "WCBW" on TV, NBC Red was "WEAF" on radio and "WNBT" on TV, and NBC Blue was "WJZ" until the network became ABC after splitting off from NBC in 1943. That was the point where it started to be weird for the CBS flagship station to be "WABC," and is likely the reason CBS decided in 1946 to buy the "WCBS" calls from the station in Springfield, Illinois that had been using them. (The WABC calls finally went to the former WJZ in 1953 after they'd been dormant for a few years.) And once CBS got "WCBS," NBC was compelled to get "WNBC" for WEAF - they coordinated it so both stations took their new calls on the same day in 1946, IIRC.
The West Coast came a little later, and again it was one network pushing the other to make a similar move. San Francisco was indeed the business and production center back then, and so it was the San Francisco stations that served as the network flagships. NBC turned "KPO" into "KNBC," and CBS turned "KQW" into "KCBS," both in 1949. ABC was less established in San Francisco, and its connection to Paramount in the 1950s made LA more of a West Coast headquarters for ABC, so by the time it got the "KABC" calls away from San Antonio, it put them on KECA radio and TV in Los Angeles instead of KGO radio/TV in San Francisco.
It wasn't until the 1960s that NBC changed its TV O&O callsigns to align with radio - WNBQ in Chicago became WMAQ-TV, for instance - and when KNBH in Hollywood/LA changed calls, NBC put KNBC(TV) there and changed KNBC-AM/FM in San Francisco to KNBR-AM/FM. The FCC rules of the day didn't allow calls to be shared in different markets.
I believe Los Angeles was actually the first place the new rule was used in 1983, when KNXT became KCBS-TV, leaving KCBS(AM) intact in San Francisco. As has been noted above, the KCBS and KNX radio brandings were so well established by then that it wouldn't have made sense to change them.
Bottom line: it just sort of all happened this way, based on what the rules were at various times and what each network did and didn't own in each market. If CBS had owned a TV station in San Francisco in 1949, it would have become KCBS-TV and would probably still have those calls today. But Westinghouse owned the CBS TV affiliate, KPIX. Same with NBC, which didn't own its San Francisco TV station, KRON-TV. And if LA had grown up sooner than it did, the KCBS and KNBC calls might not have ever been in San Francisco at all.
Until after WWII, the networks didn't seem to have any interest in branding their biggest O&Os with network-related callsigns. CBS in New York was "WABC" on radio (from the old Atlantic Broadcasting Company) and "WCBW" on TV, NBC Red was "WEAF" on radio and "WNBT" on TV, and NBC Blue was "WJZ" until the network became ABC after splitting off from NBC in 1943. That was the point where it started to be weird for the CBS flagship station to be "WABC," and is likely the reason CBS decided in 1946 to buy the "WCBS" calls from the station in Springfield, Illinois that had been using them. (The WABC calls finally went to the former WJZ in 1953 after they'd been dormant for a few years.) And once CBS got "WCBS," NBC was compelled to get "WNBC" for WEAF - they coordinated it so both stations took their new calls on the same day in 1946, IIRC.
The West Coast came a little later, and again it was one network pushing the other to make a similar move. San Francisco was indeed the business and production center back then, and so it was the San Francisco stations that served as the network flagships. NBC turned "KPO" into "KNBC," and CBS turned "KQW" into "KCBS," both in 1949. ABC was less established in San Francisco, and its connection to Paramount in the 1950s made LA more of a West Coast headquarters for ABC, so by the time it got the "KABC" calls away from San Antonio, it put them on KECA radio and TV in Los Angeles instead of KGO radio/TV in San Francisco.
It wasn't until the 1960s that NBC changed its TV O&O callsigns to align with radio - WNBQ in Chicago became WMAQ-TV, for instance - and when KNBH in Hollywood/LA changed calls, NBC put KNBC(TV) there and changed KNBC-AM/FM in San Francisco to KNBR-AM/FM. The FCC rules of the day didn't allow calls to be shared in different markets.
I believe Los Angeles was actually the first place the new rule was used in 1983, when KNXT became KCBS-TV, leaving KCBS(AM) intact in San Francisco. As has been noted above, the KCBS and KNX radio brandings were so well established by then that it wouldn't have made sense to change them.
Bottom line: it just sort of all happened this way, based on what the rules were at various times and what each network did and didn't own in each market. If CBS had owned a TV station in San Francisco in 1949, it would have become KCBS-TV and would probably still have those calls today. But Westinghouse owned the CBS TV affiliate, KPIX. Same with NBC, which didn't own its San Francisco TV station, KRON-TV. And if LA had grown up sooner than it did, the KCBS and KNBC calls might not have ever been in San Francisco at all.
http://fadedsignals.com/post/104204452294/wcbs-am-signed-on-in-1926-as-a-portable-radio
And here is the history of WCBS in Springfield, Illinois prior to its use in New York.
And here is the history of WCBS in Springfield, Illinois prior to its use in New York.
Because the FCC allows it.
Seriously, for many years, call letters for radio and TV had to be co-located in the same city. Because KCBS had been in SF for a long time (it was originally KQW), CBS had to use KNXT in LA, which was related to KNX radio. Why they didn't use KNX-TV, I have no idea.
But CBS originally partialy owned KTTV11 from Times Mirror company until 1951 when CBS Divested KTTV11 because they were taking over KTSL/KNXT/KCBS-TV due to the ownership rules at the time and this may be a reason why CBS was not assigned the KNX-TV call sign.
Don Lee Broadcasting was the original owners of a station now known as KCBS-TV.
Now in 2018 the stations WBBM, WCBS and KCBS are split between owners Entercom owns the WBBM, KCBS, and WCBS call letters on the radio side while on the TV Side CBS keeps the same call letters mentioned here.
Thanks, Scott - a perfect synopsis, and you clearly have much more knowledge than I. But I believe Channel 4 in LA did not go directly from KNBH to KNBC, but was KRCA, prior to the switch to KNBC - as in the Radio Corporation of American - RCA - which owned NBC at that time, much as GE did later.
And just for a silly historical footnote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtnsHJCex3s
Although when CBS bought KNX in 1938, it also opened CBS Columbia Square studios as its hub of west coast operations. However I agree that San Francisco was a business center at the time, as far as banking, financial services, and advertising. In fact until 1930, San Francisco was more populous than LA.
A footnote: The City and County of San Francisco occupy the exact same land area but because they are at the northernmost end of a peninsula they have no room to expand, as did El A. The only way for S.F. to grow is up which, given their earthquake history, does not thrill a lot of newcomers.
Today, San Francisco isn't even the largest city (by population) in the Bay Area (San Jose is larger)
Another big difference between San Francisco and Los Angeles, historically, is that the CITY of Los Angeles was able to expand, geographically by annexing big parts of outlying areas, like the San Fernando Valley - much of this due to the fact that LA city owned access to fresh water needed for agriculture, and the expansion of the population. Though the City & County of San Francisco's Hetch-Hetchy dam, does supply other cities on the SF Peninsula, SF never used their muscle to annex other cities and towns down the Peninsula, so it remains a geographically small (49 square mile) area at the northern tip of the peninsula
San Jose, at the southern end of San Francisco Bay, has no such geographic limitations, is about 180 square miles, and still has lots of open land to build on. San Jose passed SF in population sometime in the 1980's, though SF has grown by over 80,000 people since the 2010 census, and as Landtuna pointed out, has no place to build, but UP. This...and the continuing Tech Boom, is why San Francisco has become the most expensive place to live in the continental USA - even more so than New York City.
You are quite correct, sir. NBC/RCA played with the "WRC_/KRC_" branding in the 1950s, including flipping WEAF radio/WNBT television in New York to WRCA-AM/FM/TV from 1954 until 1960. They also used "WRCV" in Philadelphia from 1956 until 1965, when NBC took over the former KYW/WPTZ from Westinghouse. And yes, channel 4 in LA was KRCA for a few years, too.
Interestingly enough the first radio station named after the Network owner was KNBC Shortwave out in Dixon, CA (out in the Sacramento Valley/Solano County, CA area) back in 1944. This was at a time when KNBC Shortwave was carrying NBC Programming during World War II and this was a few years before KNBC Call Letters went to San Francisco and two decades before KNBC Calls went to Los Angeles.
http://www.theradiohistorian.org/Dixon/Dixon1.html
Also worth noting: Channel 30 of New Britain, CT was WNBC-TV before New York City was. You can guess what the letters meant in our case. The station, oddly enough, has always been a primary NBC affiliate since its 1953 sign on. It's still licensed to New Britain today (with a West Hartford studio and a Farmington transmitter).
WTIC-TV was originally with channel 3 of Hartford. That was from their 1957 sign on (as an independent) until 1974, when it was changed to today's WFSB-TV. Today's WTIC-TV channel 61 signed on in September of 1984. I believe it had common ownership then with WTIC-AM 1080 and WTIC-FM 96.5 of Hartford. The letters are all the same today. However, Entercom owns the radio stations while Tribune (for now?) owns the TV station.
WTIC-TV was originally with channel 3 of Hartford. That was from their 1957 sign on (as an independent) until 1974, when it was changed to today's WFSB-TV. Today's WTIC-TV channel 61 signed on in September of 1984. I believe it had common ownership then with WTIC-AM 1080 and WTIC-FM 96.5 of Hartford. The letters are all the same today. However, Entercom owns the radio stations while Tribune (for now?) owns the TV station.
While you mention Connecticut, it's interesting to note that WNPR-FM is in that state. NPR isn't able to own radio stations, so the letters are available. I think WNPR was originally in Norwich, and then moved to Meriden. And KNPR is in Las Vegas, with the letters standing for Nevada Public Radio. WPBS-TV is in Watertown and KPBS-TV is in San Diego.
http://jeff560.tripod.com/1947sw.html
And here is the database showing the station ID's of Shortwave radio stations and KNBC Shortwave, Dixon CA is on the list in 1947.
And here is the database showing the station ID's of Shortwave radio stations and KNBC Shortwave, Dixon CA is on the list in 1947.
The real issue for radio and TV is not the population of an individual city, but that of the metro area or “trade zone”.
It does not matter what the size of the cities of San Francisco or Los Angeles are.
However, print journalist and bloggers have a obsesión with individual cities, probably because cities are important for political reasons, while metro areas are more important in discussions of business and economics mics.
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