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Power 106 transmitter move in 1993

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derek20la

Hey everyone, here's an obscure question:

I've always wondered why 105.9 KPWR is able to transmit from Mt. Wilson with an ERP of 25,000 watts.

Previously, they broadcasted from the San Rafael Hills near the Rose Bowl with 72,000 watts at 1,955 feet above sea level. In 1993, they moved up to Mount Wilson, albeit with reduced power of 25,000w from 5,941' asl. But this was still decades after the end of grandfathered "superpower" stations.

Under current guidelines, their transmitter should only be a few thousand watts at most (Examples: 101.9 KSCA with 4,800 watts, 100.3 KKLQ with 5,400 watts).

I remember in the 1980s, the top of the hour station IDs used to mention 72,000 watts of "Power".
 
Because KPWR was already a superpower station when they were on Flint Peak. They were 72kw at 770 feet above average terrain, above the 50kw/500 feet HAAT max for Class B stations.
 
Signal Geek said:
Because KPWR was already a superpower station when they were on Flint Peak. They were 72kw at 770 feet above average terrain, above the 50kw/500 feet HAAT max for Class B stations.
Click to expand...

But wouldn't such a drastic change remove any grandfathered rights? It wasn't just a minor modification, but a change of 9 miles east and 3,986 feet higher.
Why'd KPWR get 25,000 watts, when the other Mt. Wilson superpower stations get ~50,000w on average?
 
derek20la said:
Hey everyone, here's an obscure question:

I've always wondered why 105.9 KPWR is able to transmit from Mt. Wilson with an ERP of 25,000 watts.

Previously, they broadcasted from the San Rafael Hills near the Rose Bowl with 72,000 watts at 1,955 feet above sea level. In 1993, they moved up to Mount Wilson, albeit with reduced power of 25,000w from 5,941' asl. But this was still decades after the end of grandfathered "superpower" stations.

Under current guidelines, their transmitter should only be a few thousand watts at most (Examples: 101.9 KSCA with 4,800 watts, 100.3 KKLQ with 5,400 watts).

I remember in the 1980s, the top of the hour station IDs used to mention 72,000 watts of "Power".
Click to expand...

Another factor is that signals are not calculated in height above sea level, but in height above average terrain. KPWR is at roughly 3000' above average terrain, because for at least 180° around the site, they are at the same level as average terrain or, on some radials, a bit below it.
 
Another former Flint Peak slightly-superpower station, 97.1 KAMP, had 55kw on Flint, but went down to 21kw when they moved up to Mt. Wilson. So KAMP was also allowed to preserve their grandfathered signal status.
 
Signal Geek said:
Another former Flint Peak slightly-superpower station, 97.1 KAMP, had 55kw on Flint, but went down to 21kw when they moved up to Mt. Wilson. So KAMP was also allowed to preserve their grandfathered signal status.
Click to expand...

Your username is very fitting! Thanks for that information, as I never knew KAMP relocated. Searching fccdata.org, it looks like they moved up to Mt. Wilson in 1988.

And that helps answer my original question, as both KAMP and KPWR were grandfathered, and both received similar power levels at their new site (like a fair compromise).

Follow up question: are there any stations that currently broadcast from Flint Peak? Or have backup transmitters there? Or has the site been abandoned?
 
derek20la said:
Your username is very fitting! Thanks for that information, as I never knew KAMP relocated. Searching fccdata.org, it looks like they moved up to Mt. Wilson in 1988.

And that helps answer my original question, as both KAMP and KPWR were grandfathered, and both received similar power levels at their new site (like a fair compromise).

Follow up question: are there any stations that currently broadcast from Flint Peak? Or have backup transmitters there? Or has the site been abandoned?
Click to expand...

Flint is quite populated. KPWR has a backup there, as do the Univision B's. KLAX has a main site there, land KXOL was there after moving off of Montecito Hights, but had to move do to a format "non compete" with the landlord. KXOL and KROQ are on the Verdugo site, along with the CBS backups.

After the Station Fire, many LA stations installed backups somewhere that was not on Mt Wilson. Flint is the best such location.
 
DavidEduardo said:


Flint is quite populated. KPWR has a backup there, as do the Univision B's. KLAX has a main site there, land KXOL was there after moving off of Montecito Hights, but had to move do to a format "non compete" with the landlord. KXOL and KROQ are on the Verdugo site, along with the CBS backups.

After the Station Fire, many LA stations installed backups somewhere that was not on Mt Wilson. Flint is the best such location.
Click to expand...

Why is Flint Peak better than the much higher Mt. Lukens? I know the area around Lukens was burned in the Station Fire as well, so perhaps that location is not suitably far enough away?
 
ChannelFlipper said:
Why is Flint Peak better than the much higher Mt. Lukens? I know the area around Lukens was burned in the Station Fire as well, so perhaps that location is not suitably far enough away?
Click to expand...

That location is in the same mountain range that had the Station Fire, and is considered to have equal risk as Wilson.

Lukens is even farther north, and has significant shadowing from the Verdugos and the Hollywood Hills in parts of the basin. It is also blocked to some extent into the San Gabriel Valley by the other parts of the same range such as Wilson and Harvard. And it is much farther from the OC areas that are also in the LA MSA.

Flint has nearly 2,000' AMSL and is capable of putting a very adequate signal over the MSA in an emergency situation. And it is much more accessible.
 
Here's what someone told me: Because KPWR was grandfathered "superpower" from Flint Peak, FCC permitted them to move to Mount Wilson with a directional antenna producing a 60 dBu contour that is contained within the 60 dBu contour of the superpower Flint Peak facility.

I could run a study to see if the 60 dBu part of this is correct and research the rest, I suppose. But however it happened, good for KPWR and the other Mount Wilson stations that got licensed with those splendid facilities.

David as you know KPCC is the only Class B on Mount Wilson compliant with today's FCC rules with respect to ERP. Even the lower powered Class B stations on Mount Wilson are superpower, exceeding Class B maximum power at their HAAT. And each of those stations has a story about how it got there.
 
Greg Strickland said:
And each of those stations has a story about how it got there.
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Hello Greg! And, indeed, there are stories on each of them. While a few were up there before the Class B rules were implemented, most managed to make a convincing story about how dropping power would result in a loss of service to a market that was geographically one of the largest in the nation.

Of course, when I saw your name on a post about "Power" I immediately thought Power 96, not Power 106!
 
Sometime back, the FCC changed the rules for grandfathered stations, allowing them to move and keep their grandfathered status. Before that, a move to say, Wilson would've forced them to lose their grandfathered status and drop to a few hundred watts, so presumably, no one did it!
 
What about KOSF in San Francisco I-heart 80s @ 103.7? They were grandfather when they broadcast at Mt. Sutro. When they move from Mt. Sutro to San Bruno Mtn. They lost their grandfather status from 7.8kw @ 448 meters to 6.4kw @ 403 meters.
 
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