As a (fairly) recent transplant from the Portland area, I've been wondering why the Seattle market lacks an Adult Album Alternative (AAA) station -- analagous to Portland's KINK or San Francisco's KFOG. It would seem a no-brainer, given this area's large population (about twice Portland's) and high proportion of young/youngish well-educated professionals. It's especially weird considering there's so much competition/redundancy in other formats like country, oldies, etc. Can anyone shed some light on why there are apparently no PDs or station owners interested in trying this format here?
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Why no Triple-A radio in Seattle?
- Thread starter MarciaX
- Start date
It's a real struggle to make money with the format. Typically the audience is small and a bit old. KFOG has gone through 6 PDs in the last couple years. KINK is a heritage station that's barely hanging on. It works best in non-commercial radio.
For Seattle, you might try KEXP, although it may rock a bit too heavy for you.
For Seattle, you might try KEXP, although it may rock a bit too heavy for you.
CTListener
Walk of Fame Participant
Sirius XM had a AAA channel called The Loft that it ultimately had to exile to online only to make room for more mainstream programming, mostly single-artist content paid for by record labels and concert promoters. Judging by the demographics indicated on the channel's Facebook page, the average listener was 45 to 64 and white, with a deep-rooted antipathy toward popular music of the past 25 or so years and little use for genres like most dance and hip-hop that are lacking in melody, lyrical depth, and traditional instrumentation (AutoTune and synthesized drums and keyboards being the work of Satan). That current-based musical radio that flies in the face of just about every kind of current music now popular with Americans as a whole would have trouble finding an audience and advertisers is perfectly understandable.
A
AQH
Guest
103.7 FM HD2.
AAA is an old-leaning format demographically; a young population is not relevant to this format.
KINK in Portland is 12th in 18-49, but jumps to 7th in 35-64, mostly due to a concentration of 55-64 year old listeners. It does do well in revenue, but that is because of its heritage and name recognition, not because its audience is growing. In this sense, it is like KBCO in Denver, also one of the earliest original AAA stations and which is still very successful. But KINK, as BigA said, is aging out and fading, albeit slowly. Not a good station to emulate.
KFOG is a very poor performer, not even in the top 20 in revenue. In fact, only 8 AAA station in the US report revenue over $2,000,000 a year. $2 million in Seattle would rank a station at the same level as KGNW, the Christian Talker at 820 AM.
New AAA stations have not been successful over the last two decades, and many existing ones have disappeared. Example: Los Angeles' KSCA, which did very poorly in ratings and 20 years ago dropped the format. Since then, most markets have become more friendly to rhythmic music and the increasing percentage of ethnic groups (which all way under-index in rock listening) has further reduced the available audience.
Thinking about AAA as a format is like remembering that '87 Honda we had way back then. Boy, it was a good car, and it ran well and didn't ever break down. Let's raise a coupla' hundred million dollars and build copies of the '87 Honda!
In other words, it would be very risky to take a major FM facility and do AAA, because so few of the stations in that format are truly successful and there have been nearly no successful new sign-ons in the format in the last decade or so. Plus, it takes a lot of time to build an audience as, initially, much of the music is less familiar to long-time market residents. No owner is likely to take the risk, unless it is on a near-useless suburban or rimshot signal.
The New Chico
Leading Participant
Bob- think you are referring to Pure Music Radio. Crista runs it on some of their HD2 channels (Seattle/Edmonds and Austin/Round Rock.) I actually like it quite a bit, but calling it AAA is stretching the format out a ways. It's really like a slightly softer version of Alt Rock- with occasional gentle messaging about how stupid evolution is. And they don't sell advertising- it's "listener supported via donation." Which sort of proves the point of the other posters on this board.
If any want to give a listen: http://puremusicradio.com/
The Bellingham/ Lynden Crista station runs Skycountry (God and Country- duh) on HD2. Both formats are totally canned of course, but to give them credit I believe Crista does the programming themselves.
If any want to give a listen: http://puremusicradio.com/
The Bellingham/ Lynden Crista station runs Skycountry (God and Country- duh) on HD2. Both formats are totally canned of course, but to give them credit I believe Crista does the programming themselves.
Bongwater
Walk of Fame Participant
Pure Music Radio is the most genial end of AAA. It's more subtle than the preachier stuff on the main KCMS signal. I never listened to Sky Country. I dread what I will hear.
KEXP 90.3 is usually the AAA default when in Seattle. http://kexp.org/ A bit edgy for some tastes
KGRG 1330 AM is mostly classic alternative and indie, but more than a few lost gems pop up http://www.kgrg1.com/
Further out in the sticks is KAPY-LP 104.9 in Duvall. http://valley1049.org/
KGRG-1 1330 is my workout station and go to station during the daytime. They play a lot of grunge era stuff that KISW doesn't, and also throw in a 90's alt gem here and there, as you say. I heard some stuff that would fit on 107.7 in tone today, except the songs were made in the 1990's.
They also are on KGRG-FM's HD, I guess, except KGRG-FM doesn't come in at my location. They are sort of filling in where KFOO-FM left off when it was sold.
Thanks, everyone ... I had no idea AAA was in such overall decline - guess I was unusually lucky to have KINK all these years. I'm in my early 60s but thought I was unusual for my age in that I like some new indie rock. I do sometimes listen to KEXP for short periods but it's not what I'd consider AAA - too much hip-hop, punk/heavy metal, dance music, etc. Looks like I'll have to buy an HD receiver!
Some of the alternative pop and rock on the End, 107.7, might be up your alley.
seattlesarchiebunker
Leading Participant
+1 for KGRG1. They are good considering what they are working with down there in the ‘Claw.
Remember, we had 103.7 the Mountain for over 20 years. A lot of people feel it deviated too much from its heyday in the mid-late 90’s and combined with air staff going away, the writing was on the wall. It spent its last few years as basically a AAA in name only, segueing into a fairly generic product that leaned heavy on the classic rock staples.
They have done a decent job with the Mountain HD2, so that’s where I would go assuming I had a HD radio and was dead-set against internet streaming. Otherwise, there are still a plethora of good AAA stations streaming.
I think this kind of brings me to the point that part of AAA’s appeal (and its downfall) was that the format became very loosely defined and fragmented. A AAA station that leans heavy on classics (and heritage as David mentioned) like KBCO in Denver sounds very different and attracts a different audience from WVMP in Roanoke, VA or WXPN in Philly. Then you had the more rock leaning adult hits stations like DaveFM in Atlanta that were reported in the trade publications as AAA. Heck, I have even heard pioneering Rock AC stations like WMMO in Orlando and WRHQ in Savannah, GA called AAA.
The format is interesting, and I firmly believe it can do well when it’s programmed in a way that appeals to local tastes. The problem is more with station ownership in larger markets these days: If I’m a market manager, why would I risk decreasing my cluster’s revenue (and possibly losing my job in the process) by putting a format that will take more money/work to succeed and will likely be more difficult to bring in the “money demos” desired when there are generally other, more advertiser-friendly formats to try?
That being said, in smaller towns where demographics and ratings are less important than the quality of your salesperson(s), AAA can do (and frequently does) fairly well
Remember, we had 103.7 the Mountain for over 20 years. A lot of people feel it deviated too much from its heyday in the mid-late 90’s and combined with air staff going away, the writing was on the wall. It spent its last few years as basically a AAA in name only, segueing into a fairly generic product that leaned heavy on the classic rock staples.
They have done a decent job with the Mountain HD2, so that’s where I would go assuming I had a HD radio and was dead-set against internet streaming. Otherwise, there are still a plethora of good AAA stations streaming.
I think this kind of brings me to the point that part of AAA’s appeal (and its downfall) was that the format became very loosely defined and fragmented. A AAA station that leans heavy on classics (and heritage as David mentioned) like KBCO in Denver sounds very different and attracts a different audience from WVMP in Roanoke, VA or WXPN in Philly. Then you had the more rock leaning adult hits stations like DaveFM in Atlanta that were reported in the trade publications as AAA. Heck, I have even heard pioneering Rock AC stations like WMMO in Orlando and WRHQ in Savannah, GA called AAA.
The format is interesting, and I firmly believe it can do well when it’s programmed in a way that appeals to local tastes. The problem is more with station ownership in larger markets these days: If I’m a market manager, why would I risk decreasing my cluster’s revenue (and possibly losing my job in the process) by putting a format that will take more money/work to succeed and will likely be more difficult to bring in the “money demos” desired when there are generally other, more advertiser-friendly formats to try?
That being said, in smaller towns where demographics and ratings are less important than the quality of your salesperson(s), AAA can do (and frequently does) fairly well
In some markets, a university or public broadcaster will air AAA, once the NPR and Classical formats have already been covered. For instance, in NYC, Fordham University has 90.7 WFUV. It airs an Adult Alternative format, using some DJs who had previously been heard on popular NYC rock stations in the 1980s and 90s. New York already has 93.9 WNYC-FM as an NPR station and 105.9 WQXR as a listener-supported Classical station.
In Minneapolis, 97.1 KTCZ is a commercial FM station that had been running a popular AAA format. But as David tells us, the audience was aging and ratings were slipping. In the last few years, it moved to an adventurous Hot AC sound with younger demos. Meanwhile the local public radio organization moved a classical station to AAA. The classical format was already covered by a 100,000 watt station at 99.5, so the AAA format found a home as a listener-supported outlet at 89.3. That station is also 100,000 watts, but from Northfield MN, about 30 miles south of Minneapolis.
Dallas also did something similar. 90.1 KERA-FM is NPR News/Talk, 101.1 WRR is Classical, both 100,000 watt stations. So KERA acquired a 75,000 watt station at 91.7 and put a listener-supported AAA format on it, as KKXT.
Seattle is a market that LOVES rock, a natural for a listener-supported AAA station. But there really few high powered FM stations in the non-commercial band (88 - 92 MHz) ripe for the picking. 89.5 KNHC has a good signal. But it is owned by Seattle Public Schools, so that's not for sale. 68,000 watt 88.5 KNKX had been up for sale but listeners protested and it was acquired by a listener group. It airs a mix of NPR News shows and Jazz and is now firmly in the top 10 in Seattle ratings. And 91.7 KYFQ had also been up for sale recently but was acquired in 2015 by the Bible Broadcasting Network for its religious preaching format. And a commercial station, 104.9 KTDD in Eatonville also changed hands recently, going to a non-commercial Christian Contemporary format. (Will it become a K-Love outlet?)
So all those opportunities for a non-commercial AAA station in Seattle came and went. Too bad for listeners like our original poster, who have more sophisticated tastes in rock than conventional Classic Rock KZOK.
In Minneapolis, 97.1 KTCZ is a commercial FM station that had been running a popular AAA format. But as David tells us, the audience was aging and ratings were slipping. In the last few years, it moved to an adventurous Hot AC sound with younger demos. Meanwhile the local public radio organization moved a classical station to AAA. The classical format was already covered by a 100,000 watt station at 99.5, so the AAA format found a home as a listener-supported outlet at 89.3. That station is also 100,000 watts, but from Northfield MN, about 30 miles south of Minneapolis.
Dallas also did something similar. 90.1 KERA-FM is NPR News/Talk, 101.1 WRR is Classical, both 100,000 watt stations. So KERA acquired a 75,000 watt station at 91.7 and put a listener-supported AAA format on it, as KKXT.
Seattle is a market that LOVES rock, a natural for a listener-supported AAA station. But there really few high powered FM stations in the non-commercial band (88 - 92 MHz) ripe for the picking. 89.5 KNHC has a good signal. But it is owned by Seattle Public Schools, so that's not for sale. 68,000 watt 88.5 KNKX had been up for sale but listeners protested and it was acquired by a listener group. It airs a mix of NPR News shows and Jazz and is now firmly in the top 10 in Seattle ratings. And 91.7 KYFQ had also been up for sale recently but was acquired in 2015 by the Bible Broadcasting Network for its religious preaching format. And a commercial station, 104.9 KTDD in Eatonville also changed hands recently, going to a non-commercial Christian Contemporary format. (Will it become a K-Love outlet?)
So all those opportunities for a non-commercial AAA station in Seattle came and went. Too bad for listeners like our original poster, who have more sophisticated tastes in rock than conventional Classic Rock KZOK.
One small college station that does occasionally play what might be considered AAA music is KBCS 91.3 in Bellevue. The majority of the programming is liberal talk, including Pacifica's Democracy Now. But when they play music, which is mainly at night, it is similar to Philadelphia's WXPN, with a mix of world music and Americana.
Bongwater
Walk of Fame Participant
There's a small town alternative station, WEQX 102.7 Manchester, VT, a stand-alone, independent station, owned by the widow of the station's founder. The station broadcasts out of a funky old Victorian house from a 1.250 watt transmitter on Mount Equinox (hence "EQX".) Musically, they sit in the sweet spot between KEXP and KNDD. The indie stuff of KEXP (Best Coast, Wavves) with the more popular alternative stuff (Red Hot Chili Peppers, Beastie Boys) without the overkill of hearing too much of either end. Wednesday nights are Deadhead/Phishhead nights (This is the land of Phish.)
http://www.weqx.com/
Apparently, their biggest audience sits in the outer fringes of their signal in Albany, Saratoga and Schenectady NY where it's been frequently voted Top Radio Station. And when the station has signal problems (icy towers, etc), it's an all-out hipster panic. (I've heard stories of people actually setting up rooftops antennas to get their signal better.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Albany/comments/5n59e9/anyone_else_having_problems_receiving_weqx_1027/
In 2018, that's not a small market radio station, that's a PHENOMENA. And a pretty good template format for a modern small market station.
CTListener
Walk of Fame Participant
Boston's WUMB has been AAA for decades, starting out as "Folk Radio," and still leans heavily toward the folk and Americana side of the genre, rocking gently when it rocks at all. In fact, it will still dip into its folk archives quite often for Joan Baez, Tom Rush and the like. The harder side of AAA is covered by noncommercial WERS and, to some extent, commercial rimshotter WXRV. All three of these stations combine for a Nielsen of about 4.0 each month. But would one full-signal, in-market, commercial AAA station combining elements of the playlists of all three do a 4.0 if the other three were to abandon AAA? Or would something for everyone please no one? Or would it matter at all, since few of the listeners contained in that monthly 4.0 would be listeners that advertisers would spend to reach?
Yes, I am referring to Pure Music Radio. Last time I really listened to that station, it was one of the few things even resembling AAA I enjoyed. KCTZ is an interesting station. Another station along those lines with a presentation not quite as good, is 94.5 The City, an HD to translator in Fargo. I've never heard WEQX, but have heard it's kind of a strange station. One of these days I'll hear it.
WUMB: Less than 25% of its audience is under age 65.
WERS: Half the listening is by persons over 55.
WXRV : 60% of the listening comes from 55+.
Your final question as to advertiser-friendliness of a predominantly 55+ audience is the real deciding point. WXRV is 17th in Boston billings, with a less-than-1 power ratio. I don't see the format appealing to any owner of a better facility.
CTListener
Walk of Fame Participant
Wow, those numbers are even worse than I thought they'd be, especially for WERS (a college station staffed by college students) and WXRV, both of which concentrate on current music by format-appropriate artists. It seems that melodic, lyrically sophisticated music has lost the current generation nearly completely, and the generation before that to a considerable extent, which means that as the boomers and Gen X'ers die off, any music that's not driven by rhythm with melody and lyrics an afterthought will slowly vanish from radio. It seems a damn shame to me, that the new demographic profile of America largely resists musical sophistication, vocal subtlety and instrumental virtuosity in favor of synthetically manufactured beats and overwrought, computer-enhanced vocals, but I guess that's just a function of my age and ethnicity.
After the demise of The Mountain, I started streaming KINK out of Portland. They started messing with the format, let Chris Mays go, brought in Sean Demery, so I abandoned that and found The Trail 103.3 out of Missoula, MT.
http://trail1033.com/
Check it out!
http://trail1033.com/
Check it out!
- Status