May 2018

https://ratings.radio-online.com/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb011

WCSX jumped ahead of WOMC. WOMC dropped, WCSX had a slight gain. WWJ is STRONG at #3. Generally they've dropped off by now but this year they are hanging in. WRIF sees a gain for #4 and WNIC had a small drop to end up in #5.

Despite being in the middle of the Tigers season, The Ticket saw a drop and is in 6th. I would not be surprised if Entercom started looking for new management there. WMXD, WYCD, WDVD and WJR round out the Top 10.

105.1 saw a big gain and NASH had a bump as well.

WDET, despite a good piece of FM real estate continues to draw next to no listeners and continues to squander taxpayer money.

umfan said:

WDET, despite a good piece of FM real estate continues to draw next to no listeners and continues to squander taxpayer money.

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You're attempting to compare commercial and non-commercial radio as though they're the same thing, and should be measured with the same ruler. The fact is if WDET was getting great ratings, your POV would be that they don't need federal money. You can't have it both ways.

There are two NPR radio stations in Southeastern Michigan. WUOM 91.7 is “Michigan Radio” from the University of Michigan, with a transmitter Northwest of Ann Arbor, and a much weaker signal than WDET in metro Detroit. They simulcast on WFUM 91.1 Flint and super power WVGR 104.1 in Grand Rapids. Their local programs and news inserts are generic enough to appeal to a wide audience. WDET 101.9 Detroit tends to emphasize their local coverage on issues within Detroit city limits. WUOM has more than double the total ratings of WDET in the Detroit market. I am guessing that WUOM has much better ratings in the suburbs of Detroit than WDET. Wayne State University, located in the heart of Detroit, owns WDET, so I can understand their commitment to issues within the city.

TheBigA said:

You're attempting to compare commercial and non-commercial radio as though they're the same thing, and should be measured with the same ruler. The fact is if WDET was getting great ratings, your POV would be that they don't need federal money. You can't have it both ways.

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It's a longtime right-wing talking point. Aren't you already used to seeing it in posts by now?

The fact WUOM easily defeats WDET on a regular basis in Metro Detroit is remarkable. WUOM's signal flat out stinks indoors on many radios in Macomb County, eastern Oakland County and areas in & around the city of Detroit. Even on a car radio, it is a bit scratchy in spots.

WDET's best programming is its music oriented programming during the weekend.

It's hard to justify continued existence of WDET on that basis though when one considers that WCRJ draws more listeners to its public station which is focused on music. When WDET loses so badly to two public radio stations with one, as Mark W notes, has a comparatively impaired signal in the WDET listening area, it's clear that WDET only has a place as a teaching tool for Wayne State broadcasting program students and shouldn't be eligible for any additional subsidy from the CPB.

umfan said:

it's clear that WDET only has a place as a teaching tool for Wayne State broadcasting program students and shouldn't be eligible for any additional subsidy from the CPB.

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Eligibility is based on meeting certain criteria set out by the CPB. The amount of money they receive is based on the amount of local money they raise. Last I checked, they raise about $4 million locally, and receive a $250,000 grant from CPB. The use of the money has numerous restrictions. You might ask your state representatives why they fund the University, which in turn provides a base for the radio station. I'm sure if the state felt it's money was wasted, they'd consider spending it somewhere else.

If that $4 million figure is accurate, that's not too shabby. That number matches or exceeds the annual billing of several commercial FM stations in the area, and that's before even counting any border blasters from Windsor.

I do agree with umfan that the CPB in many instances is a waste of taxpayer dollars. If you have a signal that is capable of reaching multiple millions of listeners, you shouldn't receive one dime in government support, IMO.

MarkW said:

I do agree with umfan that the CPB in many instances is a waste of taxpayer dollars. If you have a signal that is capable of reaching multiple millions of listeners, you shouldn't receive one dime in government support, IMO.

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As I said, the government money comes with restrictions. It can only be used for certain things that are unique to the requirements of being non-commercial. If you want to blow up the funding, it really means repealing the entire system. That's the only way it works. Are the votes there? I don't think so.

Clearly then, there is no need to provide a subsidy then. Even if their fundraising wasn't going so well, there would still be no justification for a subsidy, this just makes it even harder to justify.

umfan said:

Clearly then, there is no need to provide a subsidy then.

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Other than the law says so, and the Congress has continually made the appropriation. So repeal the law,

The Republican governor of Michigan oversees one of the biggest public broadcasting systems in the country. He doesn't see it as a problem. If you do, speak with him.

I'll continue to post it here.

You keep posting this lie that the law calls for CPB to receive an annual appropriation. It does not. Congress has the ability to provide an appropriation or not to provide an appropriation. Thus far, they have chosen to do so. At some point, a choice will be required between funding CPB or funding something actually useful. When it no longer is a matter of passing an Omnibus bill, and actual budgeting takes place again, CPB is likely to see a cut or funding eliminated. To my knowledge, the State of Michigan does not provide direct funding to any public broadcasting entity other than a portion of state aid to educational institutions may be used for this purpose, but it is not a requirement or a dictate of this funding.

umfan said:

You keep posting this lie that the law calls for CPB to receive an annual appropriation. It does not.

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You keep stating that CPB funding to stations is based on "need." That was your word in the quote in post #12. That's not the funding basis. WDET receives funding from CPB based on meeting certain criteria, spelled out in the application. If it was based on financial need, WDET would likely receive more than WUOM, and I don't think that's true.

The point is that CPB was created by Congress, and has no other source of funding other than the Congressional appropriation. Not funding it creates a debt, because the entity still exists, the employees are still there, the rent and utilities still need to be paid, etc. The White House proposal tried to deal with that by phasing out funding over a number of years, but it still didn't deal with changing the law so that CPB could seek alternative funding. Back in 1983, Congress changed certain parts of the law itself that allowed NPR to be direct funded by its member stations, rather than primarily by CPB. That's what's needed here. If the Congress is thinking about eliminating all funding without eliminating the department, the law still needs to be changed or repealed.

It's obvious that you lack understanding of the appropriation process. CPB is not a government owned entity, rather a government chartered one. It has no entitlement in law to any funding, and, should Congress choose not to fund it, no obligation would be created in the form of a debt. The CPB board and management would have to adjust operations to the lower level of funding, or would suspend operations, effectively shutting down even though, on paper, the entity would still exist. So, Congress could simply choose not to appropriate funds to CPB and leave it at that.

umfan said:

Congress could simply choose not to appropriate funds to CPB and leave it at that.

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And yet, just a few months ago, when that idea was proposed by the White House, they chose to continue funding. Not just for one year, but until 2020. No one forced them to do it. They did so willingly. Based on that, there's no reason to believe they'll act any differently the next time it comes up for a vote.

You omit that the President was given a single, Omnibus bill to sign or the Government was shut down. You also fail to note that he said, clearly that he wouldn't sign such a bill again. Provided a departmental funding bill that contains CPB funding, one that would only affect some of the operations of a single agency, I think the decision becomes easy to veto it until such waste is removed.

You seem very emotionally invested that taxpayer funds continue to go to CPB. Hopefully you'll be all right when they finally are ended.

umfan said:

You seem very emotionally invested that taxpayer funds continue to go to CPB. Hopefully you'll be all right when they finally are ended.

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At the same time, there's a small group of people who are emotionally invested in ending public broadcasting. You call it waste, but the fact is there is a lot of waste in government. This becomes a selective choice. I've heard all of the Constitutional reasons why it shouldn't exist. Yet year after year, the funding gets made, and no one challenges the law in court, repeals it, or even talks about changing the law so CPB can obtain funding elsewhere. Once a bill is signed, an obligation is made, and the obligation was that CPB is advance funded until 2020. If government can fund a trillion dollar war, or give trillion dollar tax cuts, a small hundred million dollar appropriation for children isn't going to break the bank.

I think it's instructive to study how a previous Congress handled this same issue in a responsible way. Back in 1983, Ronald Reagan was committed to shrinking the size of government. So he cut a number of programs, including public broadcasting. Prior to 1983, 75% of the funding came from a federal appropriation. That needed to change. So the government had hearings on how to decrease the federal payment, while keeping the structure intact. That solution is the system that exists today.

So what Congress could do is repeal restrictions on how CPB gets funded, and also remove that its CEO is appointed by the President. Allow the corporation to seek its own funding and choose its own leader. Very simple. Write a bill and get it passed. That's how government is supposed to work.

Sorry for this additional post, but in case you might think the 2020 appropriation was a momentary lapse in judgement, just last week, the Senate Appropriations Committee approved funding for 2021 by a vote of 30-1. So Congress still seems fairly committed to funding CPB, despite what you might think:

https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/full-noncom-funding-gets-bipartisan-senate-support