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Latest PPM out 5/18

I'm guessing the big secret no one wants to refer to is how Hubbard has handled 98.9 FM in general? I think it was Click, then something else (?), then Rock 98.9, now the Bull. All within a space of maybe three and a half years?
 
Rob Piotrowski said:
David, I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and reputation but in this case generalities don't apply. Here's why.

As Bob said, the 98.9 flip was within 90 minutes of KMPS's change. That station wan't sold to anyone so the flip was a response that clearly wasn't planned.
The station didn't even have a name for the first few months (sorry, "Country 98.9 is a placeholder, not a brand).
The format ran out of Hubbard's STL stations until they got things set up in Factoria
The station took 6 months to hire a morning show.

Doesn't take an extra eye to see this wasn't executed very well. And for those who know the "ancient history" of these stations it's not a big surprise.
Click to expand...

Although I wouldn't have put it quite so bluntly, Rob is right. David, your post gave lots of possible reasons why KMPS flipped from country to Soft AC, but not KVRQ from rock to country. As for the format history of 98.9, smooth jazz 1993-2010, Click 2010-2016, though that format was tweeked so much that if you tuned in once every 6 months you wouldn't recognize it from the last time you tuned in, then rock after a week of stunting, now country.
 
Rob Piotrowski said:
You can't learn the true history of an operation or a frequency by Google searches. You have to have been here to know what really happened.
Click to expand...

So what really happened that differs from what I wrote? Are you questioning what I wrote or my qualifications to write them?

Anyone who lives in Seattle will tell you that a lot of the early decisions with this format didn't happen in Seattle, right?

Here's what I know that qualifies me to comment on this subject:

I know the format very well. I know the two other Hubbard country stations very well. I know the people there.

And I know the new morning man very well. I know why Hubbard waited 6 months for him because he told me.

Thanks for listening.
 
bobdavcav said:
David, your post gave lots of possible reasons why KMPS flipped from country to Soft AC, but not KVRQ from rock to country.
Click to expand...


To answer that question, you need to know something about WUBE and WIL. They are not Seattle stations, but their PDs have had a lot to say about the decision, and the way the station has operated for the last six months. Hubbard makes a TON of money with those stations. The country format is very profitable. They knew they would make more money with country than rock. It wouldn't totally shock me if after a few months, you see an established country programmer take over KNUC. Maybe even from one of the other Hubbard stations.

You can spend all day focusing on Seattle, but Hubbard isn't a Seattle company. I didn't learn that on Wikipedia.
 
BigA does bring up the most important point out of all this: Rock 98.9 was one of five rock stations during this time...yes, they're only directly competing with two of them, but they were still third fiddle behind two extremely well-established stations. To beat either KZOK or KISW would've require huge investments in talent (that may do poorly in a quirky market like Seattle) and a huge promotions budget. Not to mention my place of work bartered their wares for daytime advertising on KVRQ. When you're bartering daytime spots for non-promotional items with a class C signal in a top 15 market, things aren't going that great...or your ownership are complete tightwads.

Country 98.9 is one of two country stations...yes, smaller overall piece of the ratings pie, but a more advertiser-friendly format and a greater chance to dominate the format.

KMPS flipping was a surprise to everyone. If I'm the market manager of Hubbard Seattle and I find this out...I'm getting on the horn that second with my cohorts in St Louis or the Nasty Natti and see if they can do anything to help me fire up a country format very quickly on my 'format-of-the-week' 98.9...budget planning, promotions, branding, even logos be damned!

Once a lot of those formalities are ironed out (which are traditionally done in the weeks/months BEFORE a format flip), then a PD/MD/morning show can be hired, St. Louis doesn't have to run the station once the local staff is hired. Given Hubbard's track record of taking their time tweaking a station, and the fact that they were probably on the hunt for some ex-KMPS talent running out noncompetes, the fact that things are just now starting to gel over there doesn't surprise me!
 
seattlesarchiebunker said:
Country 98.9 is one of two country stations...yes, smaller overall piece of the ratings pie, but a more advertiser-friendly format and a greater chance to dominate the format.
Click to expand...

The opportunity came with Etercom choosing the Wolf. Hubbard has heritage in Cincinnati and St. Louis. Entercom eliminated any format advantage by picking the Wolf. Their morning show had been on the air for less than a year. So now the playing field for the listener is basically level between these stations. Bring in an experienced morning show on The Bull, and you just might have a winner. Having the #1 country station in a Top 15 is not that far away for Hubbard, and is certainly worth the wait.
 
boombox4 said:
I'm guessing the big secret no one wants to refer to is how Hubbard has handled 98.9 FM in general? I think it was Click, then something else (?), then Rock 98.9, now the Bull. All within a space of maybe three and a half years?
Click to expand...

Dear God at what point do you have to take a look and say "Hum... maybe the guy(s) calling the shots over there don't have a friggen clue and it's time for them to hit the bricks" - I mean seriously how can anyone of any intelligence allow a manager with such a failed track record continue to flail around in the toilet bowl of ratings. Seriously the only good thing they ever did was bring in one guy who built Movin and that dude bailed on them as well.... That is the only thing they have had to hang their hat on. Warm is a joke trying to figure what they are or who they are and throwing everything they can to see if something, anything will stick.
 
106.9 has been a joke for at least a few years now. Thank god for The Sound! Say all you want about the changing demographics in the AC format, but IMO that's what a real Adult Contemporary station sounds like. A mix of '70s to today, yes I've even heard John Legend and Adele, that doesn't consist of rapping or hard rock.
 
Unlike everyone else here, I'm willing to give KNUC a chance. However, if ratings stay as low as they are now through the holiday book, I think we'll see another format on 98.9 by President's Day 2019. I'm not going to make that call until December though.
 
As for Warm, they're not as much of a joke now as they were a couple years ago. It seemed for a little while in June and July of 2015 that they didn't know what music to add, so they just threw in some titles and waited to see what stuck. Now though, they're doing ok.
 
bobdavcav said:
As for Warm, they're not as much of a joke now as they were a couple years ago. It seemed for a little while in June and July of 2015 that they didn't know what music to add, so they just threw in some titles and waited to see what stuck. Now though, they're doing ok.
Click to expand...

What everyone is missing is that the Wolf still hasn't replaced the numbers lost by KMPS. The focus shouldn't be on KNUC. We know why they're a 2 share. That's easy. But why hasn't the Wolf become a 4 share station? Last summer, KMPS was close to a 5. The Wolf is at the same place it was when it was competing against KMPS. Are Matt & the morning crew not gelling after a year? What was KMPS doing right that The Wolf can't copy? As I said, there appears to be an opportunity here for someone.
 
TheBigA said:
What everyone is missing is that the Wolf still hasn't replaced the numbers lost by KMPS. The focus shouldn't be on KNUC. We know why they're a 2 share. That's easy. But why hasn't the Wolf become a 4 share station? Last summer, KMPS was close to a 5. The Wolf is at the same place it was when it was competing against KMPS. Are Matt & the morning crew not gelling after a year? What was KMPS doing right that The Wolf can't copy? As I said, there appears to be an opportunity here for someone.
Click to expand...

Nobody is "missing" anything. Listeners aren't going to automatically switch over, especially when the two stations spent a very long time tearing each other apart.
 
DavidEduardo said:
What did BigA say that wasn't totally reasonable, particularly for a conservative operator like Hubbard?
Click to expand...

Maybe Hubbard has been "conservative" in other markets and other situations, but what happened here in Seattle does not support the claim. Had the response been something to the effect of what happened here in Seattle being unusual compared to what Hubbard's track record, then it would have been better received.

Instead, here we go again talking about specifics about other markets. Which in of itself can be relevant, but it gets tiring after awhile to see thread after thread after thread after thread seeing Seattle radio discussions get hijacked to CPPs in Miami, what Univision or EMF did in other markets or what happens in Buenos Aires.

When a discussion about Country radio stations in Seattle moves to what happens in Argentina, it's no longer about Seattle radio, it's about the individual's ego.

So if you want to have a discussion about what is actually happening here in Seattle rather than pointing out what's happening (or what happened) elsewhere, let's talk.
 
Here's an idea, why doesn't everyone just stop slamming Hubbard for every format decision they make? It seems as if every change Hubbard makes to any station except 92.5 gets a ton of backlash from this board. Why must it be that way? Whether or not anyone else saw this coming I don't know, but I saw the writing on the wall for Click the day KBKS went Hot AC. I expected it to last longer than it did, but I still expected a flip, and I thought at the time rock was the right move, with two rock stations in the top 10 with no competition. Do I think yanking that format off the air mid-song was the right decision? No. However, do I think they will be committed to what they've got on the air now? Yes, at least for the next little while. If the station isn't where Hubbard wants it by December, I think they're going to reevaluate, but not until then.
 
AQH said:
So if you want to have a discussion about what is actually happening here in Seattle rather than pointing out what's happening (or what happened) elsewhere, let's talk.
Click to expand...

As I said, it's obvious that the decision wasn't made strictly in Seattle. The first call was to St. Louis. Radio stations owned by big companies aren't run independently. Ginny Morris had a lot to say about it, and she's not in Seattle.

As noted elsewhere, the Bull brand is not unique to Seattle, but a national marketing package. You'll start to see phase two around town shortly.

The morning show is in place, the summer concert season is about to begin, KNUC has tied in with all the big concerts taking place in the area, you can expect to see Tim & crew on location around town all summer, and we'll revisit the ratings situation in September.
 
bobdavcav said:
Here's an idea, why doesn't everyone just stop slamming Hubbard for every format decision they make? It seems as if every change Hubbard makes to any station except 92.5 gets a ton of backlash from this board. Why must it be that way? Whether or not anyone else saw this coming I don't know, but I saw the writing on the wall for Click the day KBKS went Hot AC. I expected it to last longer than it did, but I still expected a flip, and I thought at the time rock was the right move, with two rock stations in the top 10 with no competition. Do I think yanking that format off the air mid-song was the right decision? No. However, do I think they will be committed to what they've got on the air now? Yes, at least for the next little while. If the station isn't where Hubbard wants it by December, I think they're going to reevaluate, but not until then.
Click to expand...

Here's an idea, Bob - why don't you stop slamming people for offering their point of view?
 
TheBigA said:
As I said, it's obvious that the decision wasn't made strictly in Seattle. The first call was to St. Louis. Radio stations owned by big companies aren't run independently. Ginny Morris had a lot to say about it, and she's not in Seattle.

As noted elsewhere, the Bull brand is not unique to Seattle, but a national marketing package. You'll start to see phase two around town shortly.

The morning show is in place, the summer concert season is about to begin, KNUC has tied in with all the big concerts taking place in the area, you can expect to see Tim & crew on location around town all summer, and we'll revisit the ratings situation in September.
Click to expand...

Wow, you sound like a Hubbard employee. Not one in Seattle, mind you...
 
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