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KXXO takes on big, BAD Hubbard Radio!

R

Rob Piotrowski

Star Participant
Seems the big corporate empire wants to stomp all over 96.1 by putting up a translator for KKNW and they NEED YOUR HELP to stop it by petitioning the FCC!!!
http://mixx96.com/no-interference

But hurry! They only have until May 8 to stop the "the “Hubbard Broadcasting Group – Radio, a corporation that owns over 50 radio stations nationwide" from trouncing "an independent, locally-owned station staffed by real live people who live in our area."
 
Rob Piotrowski said:
Seems the big corporate empire wants to stomp all over 96.1 by putting up a translator for KKNW and they NEED YOUR HELP to stop it by petitioning the FCC!!!
http://mixx96.com/no-interference

But hurry! They only have until May 8 to stop the "the “Hubbard Broadcasting Group – Radio, a corporation that owns over 50 radio stations nationwide" from trouncing "an independent, locally-owned station staffed by real live people who live in our area."
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I don't see how the "big corporate empire" is going to affect KXXO as the translator's coverage does not reach the 60 dbu protected contour of the station; while there may be a listener or two outside the 60 dbu we know from extensive study that in home and at work listening occurs, to the tune of about 95%, inside the 65 dbu contour.

There is a reason why class A and C FM stations are protected only to the 60 dbu contour. When KXXO was licensed they knew that at some point there might be another station that would cover right up to their 60 dbu contour.
 
DavidEduardo said:


I don't see how the "big corporate empire" is going to affect KXXO as the translator's coverage does not reach the 60 dbu protected contour of the station;
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Exactly. All the local stations should be ready for the gathering storm of 'translator shoehorn-ing'. Especially what could be considered rim shot stations.

KXXO hasn't got a leg to stand on.
 
I would point out that KRXY blew up a KSUH FM translator on 94.5. Their proposed translator would have been at the AM site with a directional antenna aimed toward Tacoma. The area is entirely outside the bogus FCC 60 dBu contour, but entirely within comfortable listening of the Roxy signal, thanks to a favorable lay of the land. Reality slapped up hard against the archaic FCC method of FM contour prediction.

KRXY was able to show several Roxy listeners inside the proposed translator area objected to the loss. The FCC killed the KSUH app.

KSUH refiled for a different site outside the KRXY listening zone closer to Renton but still on 94.5. This one drew no KRXY listener complaints and will almost certainly sail through the FCC.
 
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Doesn't matter. I used to listen to KXXO in Bellevue and Auburn, mind you this was 5-6 years ago when no one thought a Soft AC would go on the air in Seattle. Maybe their signal is slightly bit weaker on Capitol Peak, but on Rooster Rock they were a reliable 60-mile away rimshot with a better playlist than KRWM. Also you've got KXXO booming in around Seattle proper, Tukwila, Federal Way, etc. I'm the opposite of all of you - I hope KXXO wins the fight. I find it ridiculous that Hubbard wants to put a translator on top of a Olympia rimshot -- and I knew something like this would happen. I live in Yakima now and this shouldn't matter to me but it does for the people in south King County who might listen to 96.1.
The next thing they'll do is take away 102.9 for an AM translator. No one listens to KKNW anyways. Who cares? There's probably more listeners to MIXX than 'Alternative Talk'...
 
I'm with KXXO here, especially given what just happened in Atlanta. As far as I know, the interference caused by the 98.9 translator in question there was well outside the 54 DBU contour of the affected station. If they end up getting the translator, I hope they dump the current format that has no listeners.
 
Kelly A said:
Exactly. All the local stations should be ready for the gathering storm of 'translator shoehorn-ing'. Especially what could be considered rim shot stations.
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The real issue here is about whether there is any significant listening outside the 60 dbu contour.

There may well be some listening in cars, but in any location with walls around it, most radios will not be able to pick up a signal of that intensity or less.

Which leaves in-car listening. The way that the FCC receives complaints is ZIP Code based, and does not even contemplate "driving through" different areas.

KXXO hasn't got a leg to stand on.
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Certainly not under the proposed rule-making requiring a large number of complaints that can be validated.
 
I lived in 98004 for a year and a half, just a mile south of downtown Bellevue. KXXO used to be a preset on my radio and their signal from Rooster Rock, while it dropped out here and there, was quite strong. (Unless they were on the 4000w auxiliary in Tenino, in which I had more luck getting CHKG than KXXO!) KYNW (now KFNY) was also decent from Capitol Peak. On Radio-Locator, the 'distant' purple contour goes from Shoreline down to Kirkland/Redmond/Bellevue, Renton, you name it. In Burien, Sea-Tac and along the waterfront, it's considered a local signal. Case in point: I was in a gift shop at Pike Place Market about a decade ago where the radio was tuned into...KGY 96.9 (when they were Real Country)! Multipath blocked a clear signal from 94.1 or 100.7. KXXO is just as strong.
In Lexington, KY, there were so many complaints from WSGS Hazard listeners that WVLK was forced to move their 101.1 translator to 97.3. The thing is, there is hardly anywhere to go for an AM translator in Seattle. 92.1 already has the KNKX translator + CBU-FM1 (and we all know how strong that signal is). 92.9 has KISM, 93.7 has KLSY, 94.5 has a KTTH translator already, the 'open' frequencies of 95.3/101.1/101.9/102.1 already have translators and LPFMs all over the place. Speaking of which, is that KQES-LP still on the air in Bellevue? Last I heard they were NTD TV programming 24/7 - what a waste of 100 watts.
And KKNW will be just another waste of FM spectrum. These brokered, 'host your own show' stations hardly get an audience and it doesn't matter what market or what topic. They would get a better audience through a live Facebook chat or YouTube Hangout on the Air. When was the last time KKNW was ever in the ratings? Probably when they were KSRB (R&B) pre-2001?

Re: Larry's post below - the Northwest Washington FM band has been packed like sardines for many years now. And remember, Marysville is growing like crazy. There's almost 70,000 people living there!!! Not many people can afford housing anymore on the Eastside, Seattle proper or even Renton, so commuters are traveling further north, west and south than ever before. These people obviously listen to Seattle FMs. I hope we don't reach the day where an LPFM takes over KZOK in Arlington or (god forbid) Everett.
 
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The backwash of all of this is when does it get to a point where FM is no longer suitable for long commutes or even average ones? Because if we're going by this rule making, it basically makes it open season for lower power FMs/translators/LPFMs to take over Seattle frequencies as far south as Marysville.

That might not be so good for the radio band. And even the most radio devoted listeners may be driven to mobile streaming to just keep a steady, listenable signal of whatever they're listening to locally.
 
Bongwater said:
The backwash of all of this is when does it get to a point where FM is no longer suitable for long commutes or even average ones? Because if we're going by this rule making, it basically makes it open season for lower power FMs/translators/LPFMs to take over Seattle frequencies as far south as Marysville.
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That is a very valid point. What's missing... and the ratings don't show location of listening ("at home" and "away" only in the PPM and "at home", "at work" and "in the car" in the diary). The ZIP Code of the respondent shows the home location, but not the away locations in the PPM, and just the two fixed locations in the diary.

The issue is whether a significant number of people "drag" stations outside their protected on their commute or travels. At the moment, we just don't know.
 
DavidEduardo said:


That is a very valid point. What's missing... and the ratings don't show location of listening ("at home" and "away" only in the PPM and "at home", "at work" and "in the car" in the diary). The ZIP Code of the respondent shows the home location, but not the away locations in the PPM, and just the two fixed locations in the diary.

The issue is whether a significant number of people "drag" stations outside their protected on their commute or travels. At the moment, we just don't know.
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You'd be surprised how many people commute to Seattle daily from North Snohomish/Skagit County. The housing prices in Seattle proper and it's suburbs are almost as bad as the Bay Area. So people are spreading out in all directions.

Most people don't see that part. The hard data for the radio industry may not be in, but the visual one every weekday morning and afternoon on I-5 is.
 
Bongwater said:
You'd be surprised how many people commute to Seattle daily from North Snohomish/Skagit County. The housing prices in Seattle proper and it's suburbs are almost as bad as the Bay Area. So people are spreading out in all directions.

Most people don't see that part. The hard data for the radio industry may not be in, but the visual one every weekday morning and afternoon on I-5 is.
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And to tie this thread up in a neat red bow...the point Larry makes is why KXXO is doing this in the first place. They have loyal listeners and are counting on them to stop this application.

OK Frank, lock this baby up. It's run its course.
 
Bongwater said:
You'd be surprised how many people commute to Seattle daily from North Snohomish/Skagit County. The housing prices in Seattle proper and it's suburbs are almost as bad as the Bay Area. So people are spreading out in all directions.

Most people don't see that part. The hard data for the radio industry may not be in, but the visual one every weekday morning and afternoon on I-5 is.
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We have data on commute patterns. What evidence do we have that even a dozen or so of them listen to that particular station?
 
Rob Piotrowski said:
And to tie this thread up in a neat red bow...the point Larry makes is why KXXO is doing this in the first place. They have loyal listeners and are counting on them to stop this application.

OK Frank, lock this baby up. It's run its course.
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This is a very topical issue right now, as the FCC is going to supposedly/allegedly/probably change the rules on interference complaints from outside a station's protected contour to insure that they are not isolated and that they are not exaggerated.

There are going to be future cases that will need to comply with the new rules, so this thread is by no means "locked up" as an official complaint to the FCC does not yet appear to have been filed, and there is, of course, no decision by them.
 
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I think what Bongwater says holds some merit. I have heard of people commuting to Everett from South King County (probably a 35 mile commute), and even have heard of some who commute to Seattle from places like Graham to the south, Stanwood to the north, or even as far south as Olympia.

They may be rare, but long commutes are more common than they were even in the 1990's when people complained about Seattle traffic.

I would guess they listen to the big signals, or maybe switch from a station to another if there are reception issues. But that's just a guess.
 
DavidEduardo said:


We have data on commute patterns. What evidence do we have that even a dozen or so of them listen to that particular station?
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My bet is the largest concentration of KXXO listeners that don't live in the South Sound area, are right here on this very discussion board. That number could be counted on one hand.
 
Kelly A said:
My bet is the largest concentration of KXXO listeners that don't live in the South Sound area, are right here on this very discussion board. That number could be counted on one hand.
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Personally, I'm more partial to the Chinese AC format on CHKG.
 
The FCC doesn't make their decisions by popular vote. It doesn't matter how many people sign the petition. If the rules say the translator can be licensed, it will. This isn't like a reality TV show where people can vote someone on or off the island.
 
Even if someone like this is rare, these people do exist. I have to take Access to work two days a week, and a couple weeks ago the driver had on KFNY 102.9. There was never a point where I thought to ask to change the station due to signal, not even in Redmond.
 
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