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KUOW staff to unionize

Then don't live in Seattle. Commute like the rest of the plebeians do.

Do you know how hard it is to get a non-corporate, locally roasted, non-GMO, gluten-free, organic, Evian water-based, fair-trade vegan mocha with imported artisan Sicilian biscotti at 3am in..(GASP!)...Lynnwood, you heartless monster?
 
What's wrong with this picture? A state-owned university operates a school-owned radio station, which competes with privately-owned radio stations. And the news staff, who by all rights should be students learning the trade, unionizes.
 
What's wrong with this picture? A state-owned university operates a school-owned radio station, which competes with privately-owned radio stations. And the news staff, who by all rights should be students learning the trade, unionizes.

Totally agree. Unions, especially related to radio stations, are essentially toothless anyway. They'll end up taking the new member's money for very little long term support or gain to the members. Back in my day, (now considered the stone age) you worked for the local public station to hone your craft, with the idea of moving on to the commercial sector. Not as a one-stop career move. These folks think they're 'sticking it to the man', but they're really sticking it to themselves. KUOW may be forced to up wages by 2% every five years, but ultimately the station will save money because they won't have to pay 20% per employee in health benefits. Now the members will be paying for their own benefits through the union.
 
What's wrong with this picture? A state-owned university operates a school-owned radio station, which competes with privately-owned radio stations. And the news staff, who by all rights should be students learning the trade, unionizes.

A few things: It doesn't compete with commercial stations for advertisers. There are no commercial stations that provide this programming in this way. Even if students are in the news staff, there's no reason why they shouldn't get paid, given the way the station is funded.
 
I've harped about this for years here but might as well say it again. KUOW has one of the largest newsrooms for a big city NPR station, in the country. And yet, when you tune in, there is shockingly little local news coverage. The productivity of that newsroom is abysmal, and has been for years.

KNKX does a better job covering a greater quantity of stories with a much smaller newsroom. KUOW employees want to know why they aren't paid as much? Well, they aren't producing as much.
 
KNKX does a better job covering a greater quantity of stories with a much smaller newsroom. KUOW employees want to know why they aren't paid as much? Well, they aren't producing as much.

I heard that said when KUOW made their bid to buy KPLU, and it was part of the reason why the listener group was able to raise enough money to keep the station independent.

Having worked in both union and non-union newsrooms, it's been my experience that the budget is the budget. The only change is how it gets divided. If the union gets their wages to increase, there will be less money for other things, and they may be cutting down the size of that staff at some point.
 
I've harped about this for years here but might as well say it again. KUOW has one of the largest newsrooms for a big city NPR station, in the country. And yet, when you tune in, there is shockingly little local news coverage. The productivity of that newsroom is abysmal, and has been for years.

KNKX does a better job covering a greater quantity of stories with a much smaller newsroom. KUOW employees want to know why they aren't paid as much? Well, they aren't producing as much.

Okay, I'll bite. How many people in each newsroom? How many stories? What were the stories? Which stories required more legwork and research? How long did it take to go get the audio? To get the interviews? How much time did it take to fact check? Over what time period?
 
Okay, I'll bite. How many people in each newsroom? How many stories? What were the stories? Which stories required more legwork and research? How long did it take to go get the audio? To get the interviews? How much time did it take to fact check? Over what time period?

Exactly, I was going to ask KMan the same thing. Are they making their statement purely as a listener, or with actual inside knowledge?

Many of the reporters and writers for public radio are starting straight out of journalism school. Maybe the writing staff at a public station like KUOW is a greater number than say, KOMO. The difference is; staff at the public station write longer-form news, or more in depth than headlines or news pieces, requiring more writing, research, fact checking, etc. Stations like KOMO, both write, edit, and report.
 
Exactly, I was going to ask KMan the same thing. Are they making their statement purely as a listener, or with actual inside knowledge?

Many of the reporters and writers for public radio are starting straight out of journalism school. Maybe the writing staff at a public station like KUOW is a greater number than say, KOMO. The difference is; staff at the public station write longer-form news, or more in depth than headlines or news pieces, requiring more writing, research, fact checking, etc. Stations like KOMO, both write, edit, and report.

This isn't the first time I've criticized KUOW for being staff heavy, content light. I've been out of the market for 3.5 years now, but I don't know how much has changed. I used to listen daily in PM drive on my way home, and found much of their coverage to be superficial. They carried a shocking amount of reporting with minimal relevance to Seattle from Northwest News Network. I always chuckled when I'd hear Anna King reporting on farm worker housing in the Tri-Cities in a top of the hour newscast that had zero coverage on the local or state political beats.

I don't have any insider info on how their staffing budget for their newsroom compares to other comparable NPR stations. But take a spin through the bios section on their website. It's an extensive list. Look at the names. Patricia Murphy was once the morning edition newsanchor and host (something that is now two jobs). Listen during drive time for two weeks. Tell me how many stories she files... I've been through this exercise (though it was a few years ago). Many of these reporters are heard very infrequently.

In the last decade I've spent considerable time in Juneau AK, Phoenix AZ (twice), Houston TX, and Los Angeles, in addition to my time in Seattle. I've listened, extensively, to the public radio stations in all of those cities.

KJZZ in Phoenix is an outstanding station that has tremendous local news coverage. When I had a car commute in Phoenix, I'd hear the same 5 reporters, every day, filing short and long form stories, during the local cut-ins in All Things Considered and Morning Edition. The news was well written, well researched, compelling, and relevant.

KTOO in Juneau does a lot with a little. This is truly the kind of station where kids right out of journalism school go to cut their teeth. But in a region with a paucity of news coverage, public radio does big lifting, and KTOO with their tiny newsroom + the reporters at Alaska Public Media, managed to put out great local coverage, every day. Ed Schoenfeld, a longtime reporter with Alaska Public Media (he's now the news director) was constantly filing stories ... it was rare when you heard a newscast that didn't include reporting from him.

I'm in Los Angeles now. I usually listen to KCRW, even though KPCC has better local news coverage. KCRW has a very small newsroom (I could count all the reporters on one hand) but their signal covers my whole commute, and KPCC's doesn't. With more reporters on more beats, KPCC has a better handle on the news that's relevant for LA. It's a big station with a big newsroom, but I just took a peak at the staff directory, and those names are all familiar, regular voices I hear covering LA.

I recognize that one of the differences between a public station's newscasts and a place like KOMO is the depth of coverage is very different. At KOMO, Carleen Johnson can rip and read a half dozen AP wire stories, add some audio gathered by the TV guys, and have a new report every half hour. The public stations aren't doing that, and that's one of the reasons they have big newsrooms.

But in my years of flip flopping between KUOW and KPLU, and the comparisons I've made listening in some other cities, large and small, I've found KUOW to have some pretty unsatisfactory local news coverage, and a pretty big staff putting out a sub-par product.
 
What's wrong with this picture? A state-owned university operates a school-owned radio station, which competes with privately-owned radio stations. And the news staff, who by all rights should be students learning the trade, unionizes.

There probably haven't been any students involved at KUOW since the 1960's. There is too much money riding on the station for it to be operated by students.
 
But in my years of flip flopping between KUOW and KPLU, and the comparisons I've made listening in some other cities, large and small, I've found KUOW to have some pretty unsatisfactory local news coverage, and a pretty big staff putting out a sub-par product.

They don't need to have better local news coverage. Have you looked at the ratings lately?
 
This isn't the first time I've criticized KUOW for being staff heavy, content light. I've been out of the market for 3.5 years now, but I don't know how much has changed. I used to listen daily in PM drive on my way home, and found much of their coverage to be superficial. They carried a shocking amount of reporting with minimal relevance to Seattle from Northwest News Network. I always chuckled when I'd hear Anna King reporting on farm worker housing in the Tri-Cities in a top of the hour newscast that had zero coverage on the local or state political beats.

I don't have any insider info on how their staffing budget for their newsroom compares to other comparable NPR stations. But take a spin through the bios section on their website. It's an extensive list. Look at the names. Patricia Murphy was once the morning edition newsanchor and host (something that is now two jobs). Listen during drive time for two weeks. Tell me how many stories she files... I've been through this exercise (though it was a few years ago). Many of these reporters are heard very infrequently.

In the last decade I've spent considerable time in Juneau AK, Phoenix AZ (twice), Houston TX, and Los Angeles, in addition to my time in Seattle. I've listened, extensively, to the public radio stations in all of those cities.

KJZZ in Phoenix is an outstanding station that has tremendous local news coverage. When I had a car commute in Phoenix, I'd hear the same 5 reporters, every day, filing short and long form stories, during the local cut-ins in All Things Considered and Morning Edition. The news was well written, well researched, compelling, and relevant.

KTOO in Juneau does a lot with a little. This is truly the kind of station where kids right out of journalism school go to cut their teeth. But in a region with a paucity of news coverage, public radio does big lifting, and KTOO with their tiny newsroom + the reporters at Alaska Public Media, managed to put out great local coverage, every day. Ed Schoenfeld, a longtime reporter with Alaska Public Media (he's now the news director) was constantly filing stories ... it was rare when you heard a newscast that didn't include reporting from him.

I'm in Los Angeles now. I usually listen to KCRW, even though KPCC has better local news coverage. KCRW has a very small newsroom (I could count all the reporters on one hand) but their signal covers my whole commute, and KPCC's doesn't. With more reporters on more beats, KPCC has a better handle on the news that's relevant for LA. It's a big station with a big newsroom, but I just took a peak at the staff directory, and those names are all familiar, regular voices I hear covering LA.

I recognize that one of the differences between a public station's newscasts and a place like KOMO is the depth of coverage is very different. At KOMO, Carleen Johnson can rip and read a half dozen AP wire stories, add some audio gathered by the TV guys, and have a new report every half hour. The public stations aren't doing that, and that's one of the reasons they have big newsrooms.

But in my years of flip flopping between KUOW and KPLU, and the comparisons I've made listening in some other cities, large and small, I've found KUOW to have some pretty unsatisfactory local news coverage, and a pretty big staff putting out a sub-par product.

KUOW has refreshed a lot of things, internal and external. And it's been done over the past three years.

Disliking a product is fine, but characterizing a station and its staff based on listening to afternoon drive three and a half years ago and going through the staff bios page is incredibly absurd. A quick look at the monthly that came out today shows the audience disagrees with your clumsy assessment.

KUOW is non-profit, their financials are easily found on the web.
 
KUOW has refreshed a lot of things, internal and external. And it's been done over the past three years.

Disliking a product is fine, but characterizing a station and its staff based on listening to afternoon drive three and a half years ago and going through the staff bios page is incredibly absurd. A quick look at the monthly that came out today shows the audience disagrees with your clumsy assessment.

KUOW is non-profit, their financials are easily found on the web.

KUOW's ratings have been strong for many years. In a city like Seattle, they have an audience that is willing to listen to whatever they put out, because they are the local NPR station. But the listener support that kept KNKX separate showed there are a huge amount of people that prefer their product over KUOW.

And that's fine. Competition is good. But because there is an inherent demand for their product, KUOW is not nearly as good of a station as they could be. This isn't a problem unique to public radio. At the big corporation I work at, one of our divisions manages our strongest product ... but its a strong product because its an aspirational product with inherent demand, not necessarily because they're doing a great job managing it. And everyone knows that. But there is no pressure to improve, because it's good enough. That's how I've always viewed KUOW.

And you're right. Perhaps the station is improved today, with better editorial selection for the newscasts during drive times. And that's something I can't really speak to. But I made these same points, a couple of years ago, in the KPLU is for sale thread, and didn't get a lot of push back about them. Maybe KUOW has changed enough that my points are not longer relevant. And if that's the case, then I'll back down from my opinions.

But you noted above that "characterizing a station and its staff based on listening to afternoon drive three and a half years ago and going through the staff bios page is incredibly absurd." How would you like to me to comment on the station and it's issues? I was a regular daily listener, for most of a decade, in the afternoon drive (because I think ATC is a better product that ME). I listened critically, paid attention to story selection and the editorial judgement, and made note of which reporters were filing reports and which ones weren't. My opinions stated above, and are not based on sticking my finger out the window to see which way the wind blows. This is a discussion board ... I've been kicking around here for basically my entire adult life. I appreciate the mix of radio pros and listeners, and the different way they see things.

If I really wanted to get into it, I could go take a look at some of the financials for the local stations that I think do a good job and compare them to KUOW. It really would be interesting to see what the cost differences are for the newsrooms.

I can only judge based on my business knowledge, and my critical listening.
 
KUOW's ratings have been strong for many years. In a city like Seattle, they have an audience that is willing to listen to whatever they put out, because they are the local NPR station. But the listener support that kept KNKX separate showed there are a huge amount of people that prefer their product over KUOW.

And that's fine. Competition is good. But because there is an inherent demand for their product, KUOW is not nearly as good of a station as they could be. This isn't a problem unique to public radio. At the big corporation I work at, one of our divisions manages our strongest product ... but its a strong product because its an aspirational product with inherent demand, not necessarily because they're doing a great job managing it. And everyone knows that. But there is no pressure to improve, because it's good enough. That's how I've always viewed KUOW.

And you're right. Perhaps the station is improved today, with better editorial selection for the newscasts during drive times. And that's something I can't really speak to. But I made these same points, a couple of years ago, in the KPLU is for sale thread, and didn't get a lot of push back about them. Maybe KUOW has changed enough that my points are not longer relevant. And if that's the case, then I'll back down from my opinions.

But you noted above that "characterizing a station and its staff based on listening to afternoon drive three and a half years ago and going through the staff bios page is incredibly absurd." How would you like to me to comment on the station and it's issues? I was a regular daily listener, for most of a decade, in the afternoon drive (because I think ATC is a better product that ME). I listened critically, paid attention to story selection and the editorial judgement, and made note of which reporters were filing reports and which ones weren't. My opinions stated above, and are not based on sticking my finger out the window to see which way the wind blows. This is a discussion board ... I've been kicking around here for basically my entire adult life. I appreciate the mix of radio pros and listeners, and the different way they see things.

If I really wanted to get into it, I could go take a look at some of the financials for the local stations that I think do a good job and compare them to KUOW. It really would be interesting to see what the cost differences are for the newsrooms.

I can only judge based on my business knowledge, and my critical listening.

Fair points.

To answer the question on how to comment, I don't have one. That's up to you. When the sample period that bases an opinion, bad or good, is over three years old and the ratings have markedly increased over the past year, doesn't that say, "hmmmm, maybe things have changed"? At the very least, I would want to listen to the station and see if I can hear why the ratings went up.

Anybody can make an assertion or opinion about a station at anytime, yet there's a difference between making an informed and uninformed one.
 
"I've found KUOW to have some pretty unsatisfactory local news coverage, and a pretty big staff putting out a sub-par product."

Sounds like they will be a perfect fit for the Union!

I've been a regular KUOW listener for the last decade and have to say as a former programmer and news reader, I fail to see any substantial changes in the ME/ATC segments, other than hiring a morning show anchor than can't pronounce the call letters.

The only major change has been the shrinking local content in middays. I personally don't mind the BBC and wish they still had them on the HD3.

The jazz on HD2 is a weak effort and minimally programmed.
 
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