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When KLIF 1190 Dallas, Tx. went STEREO 1977

DavidEduardo said:


The timeline is wrong. We expected an FCC decision in 1977, when AM still had over half the listening. The FCC made a decision, which was immediately halted by Mr Kahn's lawsuit. It took 5 years to get to the "marketplace" decision, and then that was an effort by the FCC to prevent another suit by Mr Kahn.
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Click to expand...

I don't want to sound argumentative with you, of all people, but my timeline is not wrong. It was 1980 when the FCC made the Magnavox decision. They had started "testing" about 1975. Technically there were 5 systems when the "marketplace" decision happened, but Belar dropped out almost immediately. I am unaware of any lawsuit by Mr. Kahn in the 70s, but know he filed one in the late 80s claiming Motorola's system did not meet FCC standards. If you recall, what was the lawsuit about in the 70s?

Also, the ease of making a multi-system chip does not count for the cost of licensing the technology from the 4 or 5 companies competing to be the standard. It was expensive. That's why only one such radio was made. (sure wish I had one)

10 or 15 years too late, the 1993 FCC decision was just too late for AM radio. I have studied AM Stereo for decades as part of my love of radio. I was acutely aware of every move made in the battles over it at the time it was happening. I have always wondered where the band would be today if it had managed to get a good stereo standard adopted back when most listeners were tuned in to AM. It amazes me that today only about 8-10% of listening in the DFW area is on the AM band. Would it be 20-30% if stereo had been adopted in the late 70s or early 80s? Probably not, but who knows.
 
tested said:
I don't want to sound argumentative with you, of all people, but my timeline is not wrong. It was 1980 when the FCC made the Magnavox decision. They had started "testing" about 1975. Technically there were 5 systems when the "marketplace" decision happened, but Belar dropped out almost immediately. I am unaware of any lawsuit by Mr. Kahn in the 70s, but know he filed one in the late 80s claiming Motorola's system did not meet FCC standards. If you recall, what was the lawsuit about in the 70s?
Click to expand...

When the FCC made an initial decision on systems in the 1977-78 period, Kahn sued to have the proceeding halted as prejudicial. I was ready, having spent a considerable amount in mid-1977 to put in all stereo studio gear as well as a new "stereo" (2-channel) microwave system with full redundancy. We had hoped to be on in stereo, given the FCC's early indicators of the timetable, in Q1 of 1978 at the latest. We even had our agency, Badillo / Saatchi & Saatchi, prepare a multimedia ad campaign for the launch of stereo.

Then the FCC delayed the proceedings, and in early 1978 Kahn sent a letter to the Commission detailing his objections to the 4 opposing systems. He soon coupled this with a legal inquiry (in other words, a threat of a suit) to further postpone the evaluation. The result was that the FCC dragged what, in mid-1977 should have been a rapid "inquiry" into an exercise in not getting into a battle. When they finally acted, Kahn filed actual objections.

So Kahn's threats slowed the procedure down, and his actual filling added 3 more years to the proceeding, during which time most music listening and, more importantly, young adult music formats on AM, had disappeared.

Also, the ease of making a multi-system chip does not count for the cost of licensing the technology from the 4 or 5 companies competing to be the standard. It was expensive. That's why only one such radio was made. (sure wish I had one)
Click to expand...

Had the implementation have occurred in 1978, manufacturers would have ignored the cost and simply passed it on to consumers who, at that time, would likely have seen a good price / value equation before AM music stations had disappeared in most of the popular formats.

I have always wondered where the band would be today if it had managed to get a good stereo standard adopted back when most listeners were tuned in to AM. It amazes me that today only about 8-10% of listening in the DFW area is on the AM band. Would it be 20-30% if stereo had been adopted in the late 70s or early 80s? Probably not, but who knows.
Click to expand...

While in Dallas there is about 10% of all listening going to AM, in 18-49 the amount is around 8 shares, of which 2/3 goes to KTCK.

The problem, overall, was timeliness. There was a window of opportunity to have an image of stereo = quality, but once the major format listeners had gone to FM, there was no way to get them back. I saw this in my market in 1979, where what was the biggest format appeared on FM, raising in just 90 days the FM share from around 14 to over 55 (with that one station getting as high as a 42 share). The window of opportunity slammed shut, and within a year there was nearly no AM music listening.
 
Even if Kahn didn't gum things up, the FM horse was out of the barn and never to return. In the DFW market, AM Stereo couldn't do anything to improve the coverage area of most AM stations (only three could hit all metro survey counties after sunset, while just about all FM's could) As everyone knows, the Mighty 11~Ninety was 50kw during the day, but dropped to 5kw with 12 towers at night. YIKES! AM Stereo couldn't fix that problem.
 
DrAkbar said:
...coverage area of most AM stations (only three could hit all metro survey counties after sunset...
Click to expand...

I assume you are referring to:
KRQX (nee WFAA) 570--5 kw DA-N with it's big "butterfly" pattern
WBAP 820--50 kw ND
KRLD 1080--50 kw DA-N protecting only WTIC Hartford
 
oldiesfan6479 said:
I assume you are referring to:
KRQX (nee WFAA) 570--5 kw DA-N with it's big "butterfly" pattern
WBAP 820--50 kw ND
KRLD 1080--50 kw DA-N protecting only WTIC Hartford
Click to expand...

Yup. Ancient Modulation stations really took it on the chin when Arbitron combined the Dallas and Ft Worth books. KBOX was competitive in Dallas, but not so in Ft Worth; KFJZ was competitive in Ft Worth, but not so much in Dallas. Combine the markets, and both stations suffered. Most FM's didn't have that problem. McLendon was wise to sell KLIF in 1971, two years before the two markets were combined.
 
DavidEduardo said:


When the FCC made an initial decision on systems in the 1977-78 period, Kahn sued to have the proceeding halted as prejudicial. I was ready, having spent a considerable amount in mid-1977 to put in all stereo studio gear as well as a new "stereo" (2-channel) microwave system with full redundancy. We had hoped to be on in stereo, given the FCC's early indicators of the timetable, in Q1 of 1978 at the latest. We even had our agency, Badillo / Saatchi & Saatchi, prepare a multimedia ad campaign for the launch of stereo.

Then the FCC delayed the proceedings, and in early 1978 Kahn sent a letter to the Commission detailing his objections to the 4 opposing systems. He soon coupled this with a legal inquiry (in other words, a threat of a suit) to further postpone the evaluation. The result was that the FCC dragged what, in mid-1977 should have been a rapid "inquiry" into an exercise in not getting into a battle. When they finally acted, Kahn filed actual objections.

So Kahn's threats slowed the procedure down, and his actual filling added 3 more years to the proceeding, during which time most music listening and, more importantly, young adult music formats on AM, had disappeared.



Had the implementation have occurred in 1978, manufacturers would have ignored the cost and simply passed it on to consumers who, at that time, would likely have seen a good price / value equation before AM music stations had disappeared in most of the popular formats.



While in Dallas there is about 10% of all listening going to AM, in 18-49 the amount is around 8 shares, of which 2/3 goes to KTCK.

The problem, overall, was timeliness. There was a window of opportunity to have an image of stereo = quality, but once the major format listeners had gone to FM, there was no way to get them back. I saw this in my market in 1979, where what was the biggest format appeared on FM, raising in just 90 days the FM share from around 14 to over 55 (with that one station getting as high as a 42 share). The window of opportunity slammed shut, and within a year there was nearly no AM music listening.
Click to expand...

This is why I really didn't want to seem argumentative with you. I had never heard of the legal issues in the late 70s. In all of the reading of newspapers and trade magazines at the time, it never came up. Clearly had I been in the business at the time, as you were, I would have known. Great information. Thank you.
 
tested said:
Also, the ease of making a multi-system chip does not count for the cost of licensing the technology from the 4 or 5 companies competing to be the standard. It was expensive. That's why only one such radio was made. (sure wish I had one)
Click to expand...
What model radio would that be?
 
DavidEduardo said:


The manufacturers saw that, by 1983, the opportunity for and interest in AM stereo had become minimal, and there would be no return on investment making radios nobody wanted.

If you listened to music only on FM (as was the case with nearly everyone by 1983), why would you spend more to get a feature you did not have a need for?

The FCC never mandated FM Stereo be in all radios. It never even mandated that FM be in all radios. So mandating AM stereo was very unlikely.
Click to expand...

If you lived in the southwest in the 80's like I did, there were still big and medium market AM country, adult contemporary and R&B stations still alive in 1983 that AM stereo might have helped. Plus the big electronics stories I remember of 1983 were the Compact Disc and maybe VHS-Beta video recorders than radios and stereos.
 
tested said:
The Sony SRF-A100. You can see one on this great page with several different AM stereo radios: http://www.amstereo.org/portable.htm
Click to expand...
Oh, THAT model! I own 3 of those. The original one I bought brand new at Sound Climax in Preston Canter in 1983 to listen to KRQX with. Problem with those radios nowadays is the electrolytic capacitors are failing. One of mine still plays perfectly. The audio was quite good from the earphone jack into the aux of any amplifier.

I also have a Sansui component tuner that does all 4 of the AM Stereo systems automatically. It's audio quality wasn't nearly as good as the Sony. No highs at all, poor audio bandwidth as I recall.
 
tested said:
I don't want to sound argumentative with you, of all people, but my timeline is not wrong. It was 1980 when the FCC made the Magnavox decision. They had started "testing" about 1975. Technically there were 5 systems when the "marketplace" decision happened, but Belar dropped out almost immediately. I am unaware of any lawsuit by Mr. Kahn in the 70s, but know he filed one in the late 80s claiming Motorola's system did not meet FCC standards. If you recall, what was the lawsuit about in the 70s?

Also, the ease of making a multi-system chip does not count for the cost of licensing the technology from the 4 or 5 companies competing to be the standard. It was expensive. That's why only one such radio was made. (sure wish I had one)

10 or 15 years too late, the 1993 FCC decision was just too late for AM radio. I have studied AM Stereo for decades as part of my love of radio. I was acutely aware of every move made in the battles over it at the time it was happening. I have always wondered where the band would be today if it had managed to get a good stereo standard adopted back when most listeners were tuned in to AM. It amazes me that today only about 8-10% of listening in the DFW area is on the AM band. Would it be 20-30% if stereo had been adopted in the late 70s or early 80s? Probably not, but who knows.
Click to expand...

Belar dropped out about the time Magnavox was chosen...I can ask Greg Buchwald...he was in the Cquam team and is a friend on FB.
He knows Kahns constant lawsuit and BS was one main issue that killed AM stereo...Sony had the two chip system to decode all of them and Kahn sued them ...but he never licensed any rcvr designs for his ISB...and PLL radios killed the two radio method he so often cited as a way to listen to his AMS systen
 
LibertyNT said:
Stereo was around in '77 but I think the 1190 signal has always been too directional for it to work.
Click to expand...

I don't think stereo AM was really around until the early 80's. It wasn't till then that the Sony SRF-A100 stereo radios were sold. So no one could have listened to it before then. And after they did come out, there were probably as many sold as HD radios today. So basically, no one had them. And AM stereo was a big bust.

I believe the Sony radios cost almost $100 each 30+ years ago so that was pretty damn expensive.
 
Ancient Modulation stereo sounded damned good on my Sony AM Stereo Walkman...until someone stole it. By that time you couldn't find one in the stores (pre Amazon) and the number of stations broadcasting in AM Stereo was in terminal decline. Could it have saved the band? Hell no...but it was a neat gimmick!
 
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