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Top 40/CHR is now “Hot” in San Jose!

O

only1moore

Star Participant
It looks like KVVF has shifted from Rhythmic to Mainstream. I have been listening for two hours and its more pop friendly than it has been in recent weeks. Guess the days of having a Rhythmic in the Bay Area are history right now.
 
Rhythmic CHR in the year 2017 is a largely fictitious format.

You are either CHR/Pop are Urban Contemporary, in my opinion.

Many stations that used to clearly stake themselves as Rhythmic CHR have transitioned to CHR/Pop. This includes Wild 94-9, B96 Chicago, Power 96 Miami, Z90.3 San Diego, WKQI Detroit and others. In some cases, Rhythmic CHR reporters never should've carried that status to begin with (e.g. WPGC Washington and WZMX Hartford). Some stations only used that label to avoid the stigma associated with calling oneself "Urban."

Hot 105.7 screwed up by going Latino-friendly Urban instead of classic hip-hop / rhythmic throwbacks. Their stunt ("Hot in Here" by Nelly in a loop) garnered national attention and made some people eager for an anticipated throwbacks format. Q102 - crappy signal and all - has been more successful than Hot 105.7 over the past few years and has often earned higher ratings than KVVF even in South Bay!

I give KVVF one year before they revert to a predominantly Spanish-language music format. Hot 105.7 has been destined for failure since day one. If you're gonna do CHR/Pop, do it right or don't do it at all. Mixing two Spanish-language songs hourly with the likes of Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran strikes me as stupid. Almost every time Univision ventures outside of their narrow format box, they do not succeed.
 
MarkW said:
Rhythmic CHR in the year 2017 is a largely fictitious format.

You are either CHR/Pop are Urban Contemporary, in my opinion.

Many stations that used to clearly stake themselves as Rhythmic CHR have transitioned to CHR/Pop. This includes Wild 94-9, B96 Chicago, Power 96 Miami, Z90.3 San Diego, WKQI Detroit and others. In some cases, Rhythmic CHR reporters never should've carried that status to begin with (e.g. WPGC Washington and WZMX Hartford). Some stations only used that label to avoid the stigma associated with calling oneself "Urban."

Hot 105.7 screwed up by going Latino-friendly Urban instead of classic hip-hop / rhythmic throwbacks. Their stunt ("Hot in Here" by Nelly in a loop) garnered national attention and made some people eager for an anticipated throwbacks format. Q102 - crappy signal and all - has been more successful than Hot 105.7 over the past few years and has often earned higher ratings than KVVF even in South Bay!

I give KVVF one year before they revert to a predominantly Spanish-language music format. Hot 105.7 has been destined for failure since day one. If you're gonna do CHR/Pop, do it right or don't do it at all. Mixing two Spanish-language songs hourly with the likes of Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran strikes me as stupid. Almost every time Univision ventures outside of their narrow format box, they do not succeed.
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Those are two separate formats: Urban Contemporary is aimed at the African-American community. CHR/Rhythmic is not.
 
MarkW said:
Almost every time Univision ventures outside of their narrow format box, they do not succeed.
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KBBT in San Antonio has been Top 5 for a decade or more. KMYO, which has the same format base as KVVF now has, was 9th in 18-49 and 8th in 18-34 in October, despite a slightly lesser signal. Recently sold KKSS in Albuquerqe was #1 in 18-34 and #2 in 18-49 before the sale.

And Spanish language radio is hardly a "narrow format box" as there are as many... or more... possible formats in Spanish as there are in English.

In cases like this one, the issue is signal vs available population.
 
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Those are two separate formats: Urban Contemporary is aimed at the African-American community. CHR/Rhythmic is not.
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Many stations that call themselves "CHR/Rhythmic" have a listenership that predominantly consists of minorities. 95.5 WPGC is a prime example.

Back in the day, some legacy CHR/Pop stations steered clear of rhythmic crossover product regardless of how high certain songs charted. Today, that only occurs in limited instances.

KBBT in San Antonio has been Top 5 for a decade or more. KMYO, which has the same format base as KVVF now has, was 9th in 18-49 and 8th in 18-34 in October, despite a slightly lesser signal. Recently sold KKSS in Albuquerqe was #1 in 18-34 and #2 in 18-49 before the sale.
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8th place in 18-34 is hardly anything to brag about. KBBT has indeed been very successful over many years, but they're the exception to the rule.

Hot 105.7 has been a ratings disappointment in the South Bay. I am not sure how anyone can argue it's been anything other than an underachiever.
 
MarkW said:
8th place in 18-34 is hardly anything to brag about. KBBT has indeed been very successful over many years, but they're the exception to the rule.
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As I mentioned, it is a more limited signal.

Looking at the last 6 months, stations #4 to #9 in the market are within a .8 spread. I could have just as easily said, "there is a 5-way tie for #4 and that statement would be statistically correct.

In any case, one has to look at the 18-34 and 18-49 Hispanic numbers to really judge the station... as that is where the marketing and sales focus is.

Hot 105.7 has been a ratings disappointment in the South Bay. I am not sure how anyone can argue it's been anything other than an underachiever.
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It actually has gotten fairly decent San Jose numbers... but since quite a few stations are not subscribed to that book, the public 12+ is nearly meaningless.
 
Several S.F. stations with weaker signals routinely garner higher numbers than them in South Bay; several more garner similar numbers.

In ages 6+, they were in 23rd place (!!!) in South Bay in the most recent survey. Granted, they were two tenths of a share away from being in a 16th place tie - still mediocre. I doubt their A18-34 or A25-44 numbers are very good. Perhaps they are passable.

All the other South Bay-based FM stations with mainstream English language music formats rated much higher, with the exception of KFOG/KFFG.

With their blowtorch signal, this station should be doing much better than it is in South Bay. It should be averaging a 6+ AQH share of a 3.5 or better and be within striking distance of #1 in A18-34 consistently in South Bay (meaning #1 or a near miss when including ratings attributed to S.F.-based stations). It's not the colossal failure that Nash 92.3 was, but that isn't exactly a high bar to use for evaluation purposes. :)
 
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What a hot mess (no pun intended) this station has been from the start. As MarkW stated they had the opportunity to go Throwback/Classic Hip Hop before KRBQ and beat Entercom to it with Chuy as a great compliment and chose not to even with having the format in a couple other markets at the time. The Bay Area is definitely a Rhythmic market, the diversity and demographic makeup consumes this music, thus the reason for KYLD and KMVQ both being Rhythmic leaning CHR's. KVVF just had the wrong approach the entire time and KMEL is a defacto Urban only reporting as Rhythmic to be more appealing to sell so those two are in different lanes. For the longest time the market had three Rhythmic's with KMEL (before the Urban Lean)/KYLD/KHQT and no CHR stations until KZQZ came and went. Now there are four CHR's (KYLD, KMVQ, KREV, KVVF), with three Adult CHR's (KIOI, KLLC, KEZR) all sharing very similar playlists.

The way to make Rhythmic work, or even for KVVF to make a dent with CHR is simple. You can't have most of your airstaff piped in from Texas, the Bay Area is a total different culture from anywhere else in the country, it needs to be real and chill (no yelling and puking jocks as it's had), local, and a diverse mass appeal airstaff. If you can't afford to do that in this large a market then don't attempt it at all or you will end up with a station in 23rd place. You would need be welcoming to the growing Asian/South Asian Population not just Hispanics solely alienating everyone else. Mark was right, no need to play two Spanish songs unless they are crossover hits like "Mi Gente" or "Despacito", if they are going to go deeper than that then just flip to Spanish CHR, that genre is hot right now and Univision has expertise in it. KVVF failed to customize the format for the market and I wouldn't be surprised if KRBQ takes a stab at it with new leadership and an airstaff that has Rhythmic experience.

Branding is all over the place. The station started out as "San Fran's #1 for Hip Hop & R&B (I kid you not, the locally detested "San Fran"). Then "The Bay Area's #1 for Hip Hop & R&B", to a Southbay only focus with "San Jose's Hottest Music", now to the CHR flip using: "San Jose's Hottest Hits", to "The Bay Area's Hottest Hits", to "The Bay Area's Hottest Music" all within a few days.....with the logo reading "105.7/100.7 Hot" featuring colors that test poorly with CHR 18-34 Females....these are all simple things radio people should never miss. Also I'm not sure it is a Southbay only focus anymore as "Bay Area" and the use of "100.7" is in all messaging when it was not before.

Chuy is a huge local name, he did mornings on KMEL over a decade, and when KVVF picked him up instead of launching with him on Mornings to make noise they stuck him on Afternoons, now a few years later you have Bay Area Hip Hop Legend Chuy Gomez talking up Portugal The Man and Taylor Swift records, again what a mess.
 
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radiolife3 said:
KVVF just had the wrong approach the entire time and KMEL is a defacto Urban only reporting as Rhythmic to be more appealing to sell so those two are in different lanes.
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And KVVF generally has beaten or tied KMEL in the San Jose book.

Now there are four CHR's (KYLD, KMVQ, KREV, KVVF), with three Adult CHR's (KIOI, KLLC, KEZR) all sharing very similar playlists.
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That is like saying, in LA, that KBIG and KIIS share similar playlists.

KVVF is targeted at 18-34 and 18-49 Hispanics in the San José area. It's not targeted at Oakland or San Francisco or Concord or whatever as it is strictly a San Jose station.

The way to make Rhythmic work, or even for KVVF to make a dent with CHR is simple. You can't have most of your airstaff piped in from Texas, the Bay Area is a total different culture from anywhere else in the country, it needs to be real and chill (no yelling and puking jocks as it's had), local, and a diverse mass appeal airstaff.
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You are using general market analysis points in a situation that requires looking at South Bay Hispanics only.

If you can't afford to do that in this large a market then don't attempt it at all or you will end up with a station in 23rd place. You would need be welcoming to the growing Asian/South Asian Population not just Hispanics solely alienating everyone else.
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If a bunch of Spanish language stations do very well in San Jose by ONLY focusing on Hispanics, why can't a station that is principally in English, but which features Latin America's biggest hits included in the blend, just as most CHRs do all over Latin America?

Mark was right, no need to play two Spanish songs unless they are crossover hits like "Mi Gente" or "Despacito", if they are going to go deeper than that then just flip to Spanish CHR, that genre is hot right now and Univision has expertise in it
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There are various versions of "Spanish CHR". Some play nearly all English language songs with a little in Spanish (like Los 40 in Mexico) and others play a balance of Spanish and English (Such as Oye in Mexico City). In the case of KVVF, the market seems to favor the mostly English pop with some Spanish approach.
 
MarkW said:
In ages 6+, they were in 23rd place (!!!) in South Bay in the most recent survey. Granted, they were two tenths of a share away from being in a 16th place tie - still mediocre. I doubt their A18-34 or A25-44 numbers are very good. Perhaps they are passable.
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They beat KMEL. In both.

With their blowtorch signal, this station should be doing much better than it is in South Bay.
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That is hardly a blowtorch signal, which is why it is targeted at South Bay Hispanics.
 
I'm not sure 50k watts at 1800 feet would be considered a limited signal as it blankets the entire Southbay target area perfectly and then some. I'd have to agree with that signal, and that format in San Jose you should be cracking if not #1 then top 3 18-34 consistently, maybe 18-49 as well.
 
radiolife3 said:
I'm not sure 50k watts at 1800 feet would be considered a limited signal as it blankets the entire Southbay target area perfectly and then some. I'd have to agree with that signal, and that format in San Jose you should be cracking if not #1 then top 3 18-34 consistently, maybe 18-49 as well.
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You are missing the point that KVVF (and KSQL and KBRG) don't target the South Bay market. They target the South Bay Hispanic market. What is important is their ratings and rank with Hispanics.
 
DavidEduardo said:


You are missing the point that KVVF (and KSQL and KBRG) don't target the South Bay market. They target the South Bay Hispanic market. What is important is their ratings and rank with Hispanics.
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Fair enough, so we are making it clear KVVF is NOT trying to be a player in the Southbay CHR race (KYLD, KMVQ, KEZR), but only going after this Hispanic target. I will say this, for anyone that knows the Southbay, if we are talking 18-34 Latinos they favor Hip Hop & R&B product far more than CHR (especially the rock style of CHR that is big now). It would be similar to how KPWR's Latino audience prefers Rhythmic material, sure KIIS has Latino listeners but even they have to play the big Rhythmic songs, and back in the Bay Area KYLD and KMVQ do as well, that's just the market passion.

Not saying Latinos in San Jose don't like Pop, and only like Hip Hop but if you go TOO pop without a Rhythmic component and are missing the Drake's and Cardi B's of the world that may be dangerous. If the decision makers had feet, eyes, and ears in the market tapped into the lifestyle it would be so clear to see this. If you want 18-34 Latinos in San Jose it's the biggest Hip Hop Hits, with the biggest Rhythmic Pop Hits (light or little Rock based), blended with popular Latin artists like Maluma, Wisin, Farruko, Bad Bunny, Luis Fonsi, Karol G, Daddy Yankee, Becky G, etc with proper local presentation. You can't be talking about clubs/events in Oakland and San Francisco more than ones in San Jose (as frequently occurs) if you want the Southbay this presents a disconnect. If San Jose is still the focus why switch the messaging to include the tiny 100.7 North Bay/San Rafael signal, and start using "Bay Area" over "San Jose"?

Comparing San Jose Latinos to a recepie that works on Los Principales, or say an Exa FM are two total worlds of Latino listeners.
 
radiolife3 said:
Comparing San Jose Latinos to a recepie that works on Los Principales, or say an Exa FM are two total worlds of Latino listeners.
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I don't know what "Los Principales" is. Maybe you mean "Los 40" which is the name used for the last few years by what used to be "Los 40 Principales", a concept that goes back to 1966 in its native Spain and which is on the air in 13 Latin American countries.

Exa is targeted principally at A and B socioeconomic levels in Mexico, which is why I did not mention it here... A and B are the two socioeconomic groups that do not emigrate from Latin America to any extent (except for political reasons).

In any case, most major market radio stations do audience research with their constituency / target to determine what is popular. For example, that is how you know that Daddy Yankee with Fonsi is popular, but Daddy Yankee solo is not. In fact, on all the Spanish language pop stations in the US, there is not a single Daddy Yankee solo song in current or recurrent play... same with Karol G.
 
Welp, looks like KVVF didn't have the same level of success as the original Hot (KHQT). I do find it interesting that Univision opted to keep the KVVZ simulcast all that time despite its limitations.

For the first time in Bay Area history, seems like there are no pure rhythmic outlets.
 
That is hardly a blowtorch signal, which is why it is targeted at South Bay Hispanics.
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In reference to the South Bay region, if the signal is not a "blowtorch," then there are either equipment or engineering failures. Based on its licensed specs, TX site and terrain considerations, that signal should smother the entire San Jose region quite nicely.

(I agree that it isn't a "blowtorch" if we are talking about the fully consolidated San Francisco market.)

Didn't this frequency perform decently for many years as an English-language AC / Soft AC focused on Santa Clara County? There sure was a LOT of clutter in the AC / Hot AC space back in the day!
 
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MarkW said:
In reference to the South Bay region, if the signal is not a "blowtorch," then there are either equipment or engineering failures. Based on its licensed specs, TX site and terrain considerations, that signal should smother the entire San Jose region quite nicely.

(I agree that it isn't a "blowtorch" if we are talking about the fully consolidated San Francisco market.)

Didn't this frequency perform decently for many years as an English-language AC / Soft AC focused on Santa Clara County? There sure was a LOT of clutter in the AC / Hot AC space back in the day!
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San Jose is a market embedded in the San Francisco market. To be a "blowtorch" you have to have a signal that pretty much covers the entire overlay market, which runs from Santa Rosa to Campbell. By that standard, none of the San Jose stations are of "blowtorch" quality.

They are, however, good enough to serve Santa Clara county and the lower parts of Alameda and San Mateo counties. And if those stations do well in Santa Clara County (the only county in the San Jose embedded market) they can do OK in the full market without much listening outside the home market. An example is KBRG, which for a decade has been in the top 3 or 4 25-54 stations in San Jose, and thus has enough listening to be often in the top 10 in the SF book.

KBRG has the advantage of an exclusive broadly appealing format. KVVF does not (multiple indirect competitors). KSOL/KSQL does not (two direct competitors). And stations like KRTY, despite an exclusive format, are not broad enough in appeal to rank well despite good SJ signals.
 
DavidEduardo said:
KVVF is targeted at 18-34 and 18-49 Hispanics in the San José area. It's not targeted at Oakland or San Francisco or Concord or whatever as it is strictly a San Jose station.
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Does KVVZ do much for them? I know it's pretty limited but it seems to compliment the 60 of KVVF quite nicely.
 
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