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101 CBS FM

Gunsmoke said:
I believe the success of the station that started it all for the oldies revolution for all CBS-FM stations in the country WCAU-FM under the genius Diamond Jim Nettleton had a library of over 2000 titles including future gold. I don't believe WCBS-FM included future gold when they signed on with oldies somewhat later, but they did have doo wop gold cuts every hour, neat.
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If one wants to be picky, an oldies station with "future gold" is simply a gold-based AC. It's a hedged bet that some stations made way back then because they were not sure a station could thrive just on gold.

The gold format took quite a few turns, including those brushes with AC and the hesitancy to morph by adding more 70's and reducing the 50's and 60's songs.
 
oldies76 said:
Not an opinion, it's a fact. I've asked people and they responded just as they would respond to your questions. A response is just that.....a response. Nothing official, but noteworthy. I may have a hobby, but people opinions won't change about radio because of it.
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It's not a fact unless you can project your "research" (stifling a laugh, unsuccessfully) into the desired universe. And then prove the data validity via replication. What you have is the equivalent of those polls on the CNN or Fox News site... extreme bias.

You don't think that the CNN poll will swing towards the Democrat point of view? Or Fox to the Trump camp? It's all about the recruit methodology and situational and interviewer bias.

The extreme danger of intercept research (where people are "intercepted" on the street) is that the appearance of the interviewer, the situation and the phrasing of the question introduce unconquerable bias and, generally, make such a survey totally inaccurate.
 
oldies76 said:
The 10 week monster by Mrs. Boone is just as available as the 1977 smash by the Eagles. Obviously, the Eagles tune is played on many stations and the other is on hiatus. But both can be played.
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The Debbie Boonr song was a hit. The Eagles song is a hit.

The key question is "how much would you like to hear that song on the radio today?" No number of old charts and chart-derived books can change the fact that the vast majority of former hits are no longer hits today.
 
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oldies76 said:
That's highly unlikely since those "non-consensus" songs are probably only heard once, if ever, on a station that is known for not playing them in the first place. So how can people believe it's "repetition" when in fact, it's not? I agree that people love their favorites, but even they'll tell you that they don't need to hear it seven times a week. That's the true repetition I'm referring to.
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"Repetition" is the term listeners use to describe their feeling about music on a station.

Further inquiry by a skilled interviewer reveals that there is no objection to even faster repetition of favorite songs. It's when songs that have little or no appeal are played several or more times an hour that the listener thinks, "every time I tune in they are playing one of those songs I don't like". It's not even necessary that it be the same song; this is just a reaction to perceived frequent plays of unlikable songs.

While the word "repetition" to you means "the same song is played often" to the listener it means that the same kind of songs... disliked ones... get played often.

Well done research in any format in any language reveals that the perception of "repetition" is caused by having a playlist with too many disliked songs on it.

KRTH in LA has been playing a 350 song list for going on two years now, and its numbers, particularly 25-54, are at record levels. It never got consistently into the 4's until 2008 (and then it was still not doing that well in 25-54), and it's been in the 5 share range for the last year in 25-54 and ranked between 2nd and 5th in the market for the last 12 books. Other classic hits stations are seeing this and are tightening up the era map of their songs and the size of the playlist, too.
 
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During the Mike Phillips/Jay Coffey era, that certainly was true! (380-400 songs) Jhani Kaye expanded the playlist to reduce the repetition, (700-850 songs).

Of course when any FM Station decides to tighten up the playlist and focus only on what's still popular, the songs not only repeat due to the lack of currents backing them up, but the station's overall music flow change as well.

The millennials (those in the 25-54 age demo) are happy with KRTH, while the boomers (55+) are sick of the constant repetition, disgusted with the station, and want the original format back on the air. I'm sure the DJ's knew they were letting down former listeners, would probably respond with something like "hey it's not us making these decisions, it's management, blame them".

Group A is satisfied, Group B however is not
 
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ATSFGuy said:
During the Mike Phillips/Jay Coffey era, that certainly was true! (380-400 songs) Jhani Kaye expanded the playlist to reduce the repetition, (700-850 songs).
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And that did increase the shares, but mostly in 55 and over. It did not help the 25-54 much, as from 2010 to 2013 the rank dropped from around 7th to as low as 14th in some months. It's now well within the top 5, averaging 3rd for the last several months.

Of course when any FM Station decides to tighten up the playlist and focus only on what's still popular, the songs not only repeat due to the lack of currents backing them up, but the station's overall music flow change as well.
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Why would anyone play songs that are not still popular? Radio stations are not museums.

The millennials (those in the 25-54 age demo) are happy with KRTH
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KRTH targets 35-54. There are no millennials in that age group.

, while the boomers (55+) are sick of the constant repetition, disgusted with the station, and want the original format back on the air.
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You are likely right. The "repetition" however is the playing of songs that 55+ persons don't identify with or, in many cases, even like.

But it does not matter. KRTH has no interest in attracting those over 55 as they are of no value for sales. In fact, they are a detriment, a hindrance, a boat anchor.

I'm sure the DJ's knew they were letting down former listeners, would probably respond with something like "hey it's not us making these decisions, it's management, blame them".
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Or, more likely, they are saying, "I'm glad we have smart programmers and we are 3rd or so in 25-54 because that means I will likely be employed for a good long time. Rick Thomas shook it up, and now we know how to stay competitive."
 
Well that too,


So the age group today is actually 35-54 thanks for the correction.


A senior might listen at random and hear way more repetition vs an average listener who uses the radio for 45 minutes or less.


How many different songs were played on KRTH from April 1st till now?


David, do the DJ's hear the exact same music just like the listeners since they wear a headset that is connected to the computer?
 
ATSFGuy said:
Well that too,


So the age group today is actually 35-54 thanks for the correction.


A senior might listen at random and hear way more repetition vs an average listener who uses the radio for 45 minutes or less.


How many different songs were played on KRTH from April 1st till now?


David, do the DJ's hear the exact same music just like the listeners since they wear a headset that is connected to the computer?
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There were 627 songs played at least once in the last 6 weeks. In the average week, there are about 360 or so different songs played.

DJs, whether on their headset or the studio monitor, hear either the air monitor or the feed from the board to the transmitter. With the delay imposed by HD Radio, most use the board monitor prior to the analog delay.

The computer that inserts spots and plays the music is fed into one or more of the board inputs.

The average KRTH listener spends about 2 hours a week with the station. This is about a quarter hour per week less than KOST gets, nearly the same as top rated KBIG and about 10 minutes more than KIIS gets. Persons over 55 average 2 1/2 hours of listening a week.

About 24% to 25% of all LA radio listeners listen to KRTH at least once a week.
 
brettbutlerisok said:
This is rapidly changing. The oldest millennials turn 36 this year.
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So one year of the entire millennial generation will be at the lower fringe of the KRTH target audience.

And, like other "generation borders" there is not much difference until you get deeper inside each generation. Is a person born in 1944 or 1945 that different from one born in the first years of the Boomer generation, 1946 and 1947. Of course not. The borders between generations are, at best, fuzzy... and all generations tend to continue to mature as their generation collectively matures.
 
DavidEduardo said:


There were 627 songs played at least once in the last 6 weeks. In the average week, there are about 360 or so different songs played.

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So the actual "playlist" is in the 600s, with about 250 of them played less than once a week? Interesting. Are the "every so often" songs scattered equally around the days and dayparts as playlist "spice" or do they get played only on weekends, overnight, and other low-listening periods?
 
I also remember WMOD in DC around 72 to 75 they had a super large playlist that included many "oh wow" cuts that were never played since their original air date ex. reperata and the delrons-whenever a teenager cries. It seems the oldie signals of the 70's had very large playlists. I know KFXM boasts 10,000 titles, I was listening to them for two straight weeks and never heard a repeat song, I know big signals would frown on not playing the same cuts over and over but some listeners may find this very refreshing. WFAT and WKCE also have deep lists, they must use the same service, they sound the same with liners and the music is the same tunes at the same time.
 
Gunsmoke said:
I also remember WMOD in DC around 72 to 75 they had a super large playlist that included many "oh wow" cuts that were never played since their original air date ex. reperata and the delrons-whenever a teenager cries. It seems the oldie signals of the 70's had very large playlists. I know KFXM boasts 10,000 titles, I was listening to them for two straight weeks and never heard a repeat song, I know big signals would frown on not playing the same cuts over and over but some listeners may find this very refreshing. WFAT and WKCE also have deep lists, they must use the same service, they sound the same with liners and the music is the same tunes at the same time.
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As they say, 10000 songs are readily available, only a handful or two will actually air. The rest are on "standby" in case of requests or some specialty show over a weekend that warrants airing of more "oh wows".
 
CTListener said:
So the actual "playlist" is in the 600s, with about 250 of them played less than once a week? Interesting. Are the "every so often" songs scattered equally around the days and dayparts as playlist "spice" or do they get played only on weekends, overnight, and other low-listening periods?
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David mentions on pg. 7 that K-Earth's playlist is around 350.
 
DavidEduardo said:


So one year of the entire millennial generation will be at the lower fringe of the KRTH target audience.

And, like other "generation borders" there is not much difference until you get deeper inside each generation. Is a person born in 1944 or 1945 that different from one born in the first years of the Boomer generation, 1946 and 1947. Of course not. The borders between generations are, at best, fuzzy... and all generations tend to continue to mature as their generation collectively matures.
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Well, this gives me great hope. :)
 
Wouldn't you agree most listeners to oldie formats would rather hear a broad variety of music, instead of hearing sugar pie honey bunch every day wouldn't do the freddie be more refreshing. I still think PD's have it wrong, listeners want more variety not the same stale repetition. I know a broad format 55 to 85 year span would have huge numbers but everyone thinks listeners my age don't spend like the young people, I don't BUY (PUN) it, I spend as much, maybe even more then the youngsters, and so do many of my friends.
 
DavidEduardo said:
But it does not matter. KRTH has no interest in attracting those over 55 as they are of no value for sales. In fact, they are a detriment, a hindrance, a boat anchor.
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I call them bonus points. Get what you can. Go for the 3rd and 4th blue ghosts on a Pac-Man board and rack up 2400 extra points, instead of only 600 with the first two. Or better yet, go for the Gold.

As ATSF said earlier, they are somewhat angry and feel totally left out. But, thank God for K-Surf 1260, at least they have a legit alternative now.
 
ATSFGuy said:
During the Mike Phillips/Jay Coffey era, that certainly was true! (380-400 songs) Jhani Kaye expanded the playlist to reduce the repetition, (700-850 songs).
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I certainly remember this time. But better yet was an earlier time under Mr. Hamilton and Phil Hall, where the playlist seemed endless (over 1200 songs at least), huge specials and personal DJ's and even a Saturday night request show. Listeners had fun and the station was a huge draw. But that was 30-40 years ago! Where has the time gone ATSF?
 
oldies76 said:
I call them bonus points. Get what you can.
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How are they bonus points when the listeners they represent would only hurt KRTH's billing power? The advertisers that go through agencies want as few 55+ listeners as possible. What part of "boat anchor" don't you understand? I love oldies just as much as the next old guy, but what David said -- and has been saying for years on this board -- makes perfect sense to me.
 
oldies76 said:
I call them bonus points. Get what you can. Go for the 3rd and 4th blue ghosts on a Pac-Man board and rack up 2400 extra points, instead of only 600 with the first two. Or better yet, go for the Gold.
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Not really. A station with too many 55+ listeners is perceived by media buyers as leaning too old, which is a negative when evaluating multiple stations in a market.
 
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