• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Christmas Music

Miguelito said:
While looking over those October ratings, I thought, 'Hey, wouldn't it be interesting if Beasley flipped BEN to Christmas a week from now?' It might prevent WTDY from doing it at all and it would certainly push WBEB to do it earlier than usual. And if CBS is counting on Christmas to put WTDY on the map, it could be a real problem for them. I wonder whether programmers even think that way these days or if maybe they just spend their days deciding which Taylor Swift songs to put in and pull out of rotation. :confused:
Click to expand...

Changing Ben would be the epitome of silliness unless there’s a new format planned anyway. With the atural exception of 101, the overall cluster impact has to be weighed. Beasley is better off maintaining status quo than playing head games with CBS and/or More FM.

CBS also does have an interesting conundrum. However, I have to think they knew Amp’s days were numbered a year ago, yet didn’t use 96.5as a stunt with all Christmas. This year? Maybe, but maybe the “classics”positioning for WOGL is better for the overall cluster.

Question is, is there a new Taylor Swift holiday tune to add?
 
AbrahamJSimpson said:
Changing Ben would be the epitome of silliness unless there’s a new format planned anyway. With the atural exception of 101, the overall cluster impact has to be weighed. Beasley is better off maintaining status quo than playing head games with CBS and/or More FM.

CBS also does have an interesting conundrum. However, I have to think they knew Amp’s days were numbered a year ago, yet didn’t use 96.5as a stunt with all Christmas. This year? Maybe, but maybe the “classics”positioning for WOGL is better for the overall cluster.

Question is, is there a new Taylor Swift holiday tune to add?
Click to expand...

You're probably right about Ben. I am always thinking they need to do something to make more people remember they're there. A Christmas stunt where they often promote the regular format...and which might help knock WTDY out of the market altogether eventually (by denying them the notice they would get with the Christmas stunt)...might not be the worst thing.

CBS could keep Christmas on WOGL just for continuity's sake. But I'm not sure how much sense it would make. It's pretty widely accepted that they only ever put Christmas on WOGL to stave off the seasonal bleeding at the hands of WBEB. If they can put WTDY on the map with Christmas music (which we know the market loves) and beat WBEB to the punch, we end up with WOGL still losing some listeners to Christmas...but at least some of them are listening to a sister station. And with WBEB and WTDY doing Christmas, a lot of the demo who aren't ho-ho-hos might drift over to WOGL as an alternative. I could be out of my mind on this but I think it's a worthy experiment for getting more folks to notice that WTDY exists and for getting to keep WOGL in format year-round.

At any rate, if they're gonna do it on WTDY, they have to do it pretty early. If they wait until November 15, WBEB will just flip an hour later. If they do it tomorrow or on November 9 (day 1 of the Holiday book), history tells us WBEB will hold off a bit. The best chance for success will be for them to be the only all-Christmas game in town for a week or so.

Oh, and yes, there's Taylor Swift holiday songs. IMO, they're all pretty terrible. lol
 
Last edited:
I'm pondering the "tree falling in a forest" scenario with WTDY going all ho-ho. Not to suggest 101 doesn't pay close attention—they became “today’s” More FM in no time flat—but they also have even more years of data about their holiday performance. 96.5 going all Christmas tomorrow or a week from now will make more noise among geeks who pay abnormally close attention than effect a structural change in the market. There’s little downside risk for 101 to play out their game of teasing it and doing things on their schedule.

WOGL may well have done “less bad” with Christmas than without. But gaming things out, for now 98 is a bigger asset than 96.5. And it has the ability to stake out a position as “classics” (despite a significant overlap with a fairly typical AC Christmas format). Maybe—maybe—you come out ahead for the cluster with WOGL picking up disaffected More FM and 96.5 listeners by just sprinkling in some holiday songs. Does the data lead them that way, or does it suggest the better calculated risk is to continue on with 98 doing all Christmas? I’d always give strong credence to solid research, especially when it’s my job on the line.
 
AbrahamJSimpson said:
I'm pondering the "tree falling in a forest" scenario with WTDY going all ho-ho. Not to suggest 101 doesn't pay close attention—they became “today’s” More FM in no time flat—but they also have even more years of data about their holiday performance. 96.5 going all Christmas tomorrow or a week from now will make more noise among geeks who pay abnormally close attention than effect a structural change in the market. There’s little downside risk for 101 to play out their game of teasing it and doing things on their schedule.

WOGL may well have done “less bad” with Christmas than without. But gaming things out, for now 98 is a bigger asset than 96.5. And it has the ability to stake out a position as “classics” (despite a significant overlap with a fairly typical AC Christmas format). Maybe—maybe—you come out ahead for the cluster with WOGL picking up disaffected More FM and 96.5 listeners by just sprinkling in some holiday songs. Does the data lead them that way, or does it suggest the better calculated risk is to continue on with 98 doing all Christmas? I’d always give strong credence to solid research, especially when it’s my job on the line.
Click to expand...

WBEB obviously is quite interested in letting WTDY know they're not going to sit idly by. Would be interesting to see if that means making their Christmas library more interesting in the face of competition. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that they've finally spruced up (see what I did there?) the list just in case WTDY does something More interesting (see what I did there?).

There may indeed be little risk in WBEB waiting regardless of what WTDY does but I just don't see them doing that if WTDY actually flips. And history shows they won't: Post-Sunny, the only year someone challenged them by flipping earlier than they do, they did react by flipping earlier than they ever had (and earlier than they ever have since). If WTDY flips tomorrow or next week, I highly doubt WBEB would wait until November 16 (which is when we all know they'd be flipping if there were no competition in the market--regardless of that bogus online survey). They simply don't want to be scooped in the market. And while it wouldn't have much of an impact on revenue, I'm sure they love seeing articles about their 17 shares and would not like to see that become an 11 share in future industry news stories.

WOGL is indeed a bigger asset (Is it though? Could WTDY, if done well enough, not make the company as much money as WOGL?) but, again, one they never wanted to flip away to all-Christmas in the first place. What if they keep doing the "Christmas Classics" thing and just keep getting 6 shares when they could instead put Christmas on WTDY and get an 8 share while WOGL still gets that 6? I just feel like it's worthy of the experiment, if for no other reason than to see if they should do it every year or go back to status quo.

Also, I believe that WTDY doing the flip would create noise in bigger circles than just us geeks. People go absolutely nuts for Christmas music. If WTDY switched over tomorrow, word of mouth alone would be huge. But advertising it on sister stations would obviously get the word out faster. I honestly think they have nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain by beating WBEB to the punch.

BTW: Thanks for entertaining this conversation. We're probably boring the pants off everyone else on here.
 
Absolutely.

Regarding the library, like all of their music, I’m sure it’s well tested (not to mention the survey—if nothing else than providing some supplemental data). Every other station in town could go all holiday and I wouldn’t touch the library, save for the same types of adjustments made annually (figuratively speaking). They have what the audience enjoys, collectively, down pat.
 
Miguelito said:
WBEB obviously is quite interested in letting WTDY know they're not going to sit idly by. Would be interesting to see if that means making their Christmas library more interesting in the face of competition. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that they've finally spruced up (see what I did there?) the list just in case WTDY does something More interesting (see what I did there?).

There may indeed be little risk in WBEB waiting regardless of what WTDY does but I just don't see them doing that if WTDY actually flips. And history shows they won't: Post-Sunny, the only year someone challenged them by flipping earlier than they do, they did react by flipping earlier than they ever had (and earlier than they ever have since). If WTDY flips tomorrow or next week, I highly doubt WBEB would wait until November 16 (which is when we all know they'd be flipping if there were no competition in the market--regardless of that bogus online survey). They simply don't want to be scooped in the market. And while it wouldn't have much of an impact on revenue, I'm sure they love seeing articles about their 17 shares and would not like to see that become an 11 share in future industry news stories.

WOGL is indeed a bigger asset (Is it though? Could WTDY, if done well enough, not make the company as much money as WOGL?) but, again, one they never wanted to flip away to all-Christmas in the first place. What if they keep doing the "Christmas Classics" thing and just keep getting 6 shares when they could instead put Christmas on WTDY and get an 8 share while WOGL still gets that 6? I just feel like it's worthy of the experiment, if for no other reason than to see if they should do it every year or go back to status quo.

Also, I believe that WTDY doing the flip would create noise in bigger circles than just us geeks. People go absolutely nuts for Christmas music. If WTDY switched over tomorrow, word of mouth alone would be huge. But advertising it on sister stations would obviously get the word out faster. I honestly think they have nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain by beating WBEB to the punch.

BTW: Thanks for entertaining this conversation. We're probably boring the pants off everyone else on here.
Click to expand...

This is not boring at all...but I believe as WOGL always does, they will go the safe route and play Christmas Music on WOGL. I do like some of the older Christmas Songs..but would like to see them play some newer Christmas Songs as well. KLUV is a CBS classic hits station in Dallas and they play a much wider variety of songs...but they also do that when they are not playing Christmas songs.
 
AM/FMRAINMAN said:
This is not boring at all...but I believe as WOGL always does, they will go the safe route and play Christmas Music on WOGL. I do like some of the older Christmas Songs..but would like to see them play some newer Christmas Songs as well. KLUV is a CBS classic hits station in Dallas and they play a much wider variety of songs...but they also do that when they are not playing Christmas songs.
Click to expand...

In fairness, WOGL sounds “newer” than it did a year ago, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility a hypothetical “Christmas classics” circa 2017 would be different than previous years as well. Time will tell, though even if they retain the regular format, I’d wager holiday songs are liberally mixed in (actually my personal preference by a long shot, but I expect no one to program to my personal proclivities—my playlists cover that as needed).
 
I love Christmas music so I always take the survey just to hear the clips. But I know it doesn't actually make a difference just as I know calling Q102 and making a request isn't going to get a song played any sooner than the computer has it scheduled. The survey is always the same roughly 300 songs, always including some truly strange stuff they'd never play no matter how many votes they get. And then they want our opinions on when they should start the Christmas music. Yeah, right! I'd venture a guess that if people love Christmas music enough to get through the survey (it takes a really long time; I assume a lot of people don't finish), those folks are either picking "Right Now" or "November 1," neither of which will ever happen. It's a cute little stunt but a stunt nonetheless. As was stated above, I'm sure the songs in their Christmas library are tested to death. WBEB plays only the safest of the safe whenever possible. Before the More FM version of the format (which I personally find very good), perceived competition was the only thing that ever seemed to move them to the right or left of center. I used to really dislike B101 because of that. I get that it's a business but I'm not an average listener and I can't stand cookie cutter, safest-of-the-safe radio stations. I mean, congrats for the success but what an easy way to attain it.

If WOGL does the Christmas flip this year, I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear a refreshed playlist. Nicky put his mark on the regular playlist (in a very good way, IMO) so hopefully he senses it would be silly to just throw up the same library that his predecessor was responsible for. But I wouldn't count on hearing NSync's "Merry Christmas/Happy Holiday" or anything like that. Perhaps a heavier rotation of stuff like the tracks from A Very Special Christmas 1 and A Very Special Christmas 2 and a lighter rotation of Elvis and Brenda Lee.
 
Last edited:
BTW: WBEB always decorates their website for Christmas on November 1. It's November 1 and they haven't yet done so. I think they're f***ing with me. hahaha.
 
I’ve taken the survey and said, repeatedly, not before December 1...and preferably mixed with the regular format. You mean everyone doesn’t do what I do?😀 Just joking.

I’d look at the song rankings as one source of data...skewed, for certain, thus not the be all and end all. But it can provide confirmation or raise a flag for further analysis if something looks dramatically out of line. I would never program off that, but I might toss a song into a test as a “what the heck” entrant if something really jumped out at me.
 
AbrahamJSimpson said:
I’ve taken the survey and said, repeatedly, not before December 1...and preferably mixed with the regular format. You mean everyone doesn’t do what I do?😀 Just joking.

I’d look at the song rankings as one source of data...skewed, for certain, thus not the be all and end all. But it can provide confirmation or raise a flag for further analysis if something looks dramatically out of line. I would never program off that, but I might toss a song into a test as a “what the heck” entrant if something really jumped out at me.
Click to expand...

Like if a bunch of 35 year old females suddenly decide they want to hear Peter, Paul & Mary sing Christmas songs? Blech. lol
 
Miguelito said:
Like if a bunch of 35 year old females suddenly decide they want to hear Peter, Paul & Mary sing Christmas songs? Blech. lol
Click to expand...

Well, that might be a sign of the apacolypse.

I was thinking more of the modern tracks that work their way into the survey if not the playlist. The older stuff...maybe the junk makes people appreciate the more deserving classics more. Beats me...but maybe they do find something interesting in the data year to year.
 
I'm going to have to take the survey again. I'm pretty sure nothing's been added to it. Maybe they removed some. But it pretty much sounded like the same song clips as every other year.
 
Their HD2 is wide open, tons of new and old tunes going back to the late 40's. This is not the same hashed over playlist from every year, this has definitely bee revamped. The sad part is when the main signal goes all Christmas and they dump that format to the HD2, the music will be cut back to just the same worn out favorites.
 
I don’t understand why its not good business to be able to offer 2 versions of your product. Seems to me you would broaden your audience. Not picking a fight, looking to understand how thats good business.
 
Gunsmoke said:
Their HD2 is wide open, tons of new and old tunes going back to the late 40's. This is not the same hashed over playlist from every year, this has definitely bee revamped. The sad part is when the main signal goes all Christmas and they dump that format to the HD2, the music will be cut back to just the same worn out favorites.
Click to expand...

Exactly right. The HD2 is always a much wider playlist and when they flip the main signal, it's a much smaller and less interesting library. I really wonder why they bother maintaining two separate Christmas libraries but hey, it's their money. LOL
 
sack said:
I don’t understand why its not good business to be able to offer 2 versions of your product. Seems to me you would broaden your audience. Not picking a fight, looking to understand how thats good business.
Click to expand...

At any station, really, it's considered good business to play the safest songs that test the highest with your intended audience. Unfortunately, that also tends to make for a very boring product. On your stream or HD2, you can go as crazy as you want since it doesn't impact your bottomline...but why bother?
 
Why bother...good question. But one person’s “less interesting”is a whole bunch of people’s “favorites.” Or at least familiar enough that it doesn’t make them say “what the heck” and tune away prematurely.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.
Back
Top Bottom