Part 15 AM Coverage - High vs. Low Carrier Frequency

DavidEduardo said:

I get your point. But many of us no longer have any AM enabled devices in many parts of the house. Bluetooth speakers come in tiny sizes, are enormously portable and many don't even need a power outlet except for recharging.

I think for most people, Bluetooth is a much more elegant and definitely better sounding option.

But if an AM system works for you, and you already have the gear, also good.

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David, I apologize for being nasty, but it's not the first time with this guy.

As far as Part 15 (AM or FM) vs Bluetooth, I'll stand by what I said. Bluetooth is all well and good if you want to mess with it, but to me it's more trouble than it's worth, and I tested many devices that were used with office phone systems in the course of my job -- very much a pain, but a necessary pain in the business world. It was a necessary pain at work, but not one I care to deal with in my house, now that I'm retired.

Besides, my 1000% non-technical Significant Other doesn't want to mess with it. She wants to turn on the radio, hear her music, not have it interrupted by a phone call, and be done with it. She doesn't want to mess with technology at all.

I prefer FM for obvious reasons, but here in Phoenix, the available frequencies are being snatched up for AM translators and LPFM, and won't be available much longer.

Kelly A said:

I still don't get why you're so excited about this. Doing part 15 on the AM band, is like inventing carbon fiber buggy whips.

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You know what, Kelly? I'm getting rather sick and tired of your pi$$ing on other people's parades. The wee amount Richard Fry has forgotten about antenna theory is more than most of us will ever know.

joebtsflk1 said:

You know what, Kelly? I'm getting rather sick and tired of your pi$$ing on other people's parades. The wee amount Richard Fry has forgotten about antenna theory is more than most of us will ever know.

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Someone who's been in this industry for a long time questions or gives their opinion of why someone would bother constructing a Medium Wave-anything under Part 15 makes you ill?

Regarding the topic being discussed; I wasn't disputing Richard's findings, as I have a lot of experience building antenna systems for broadcast myself. What I didn't understand, was why someone would spend so much time and effort to study and construct something that is essentially antiquated by today's standards. Never did get an answer did I? Amateur radio is an excellent place to work on antenna theory, construct, and test it with other Hams around the world, not just a few hundred yards.

Finally, if you don't like my questions or comments, to avoid any anger management issues, you may want to just skip over them.

Best,

Kelly

The Answer

Kelly A said:

... What I didn't understand, was why someone would spend so much time and effort to study and construct something that is essentially antiquated by today's standards. Never did get an answer did I? ...

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While some may view AM broadcasts to be antiquated, they do have large listening audiences even in 2017. In some cities, AM broadcast stations still have the largest listening audiences in those markets.

The FCC allows unlicensed use of the AM (and FM) broadcast band by systems/operators meeting Part 15. Some people find such systems to be useful.

There is a lot of misinformation on various websites about system configurations that are alleged or understood to comply with Part 15, and about the useful coverage areas they can serve.

The purpose of my "Part 15" posts is to provide technically accurate and documented information about the configuration and performance of unlicensed systems that actually comply with Part 15, for those who want to install/operate one.

Kelly A said:

Someone who's been in this industry for a long time questions or gives their opinion of why someone would bother constructing a Medium Wave-anything under Part 15 makes you ill?

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No, it isn't that you voice a dissenting opinion, or even that you employ sarcasm in your dissents. It's how you voice your opinion in such a regularly negative and sarcastic fashion.

Kelly A said:

...if you don't like my questions or comments, to avoid any anger management issues, you may want to just skip over them.

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Your general tone doesn't make me angry. Defensive, yes. Mostly, I think your tone obfuscates your considerable experience and knowledge in this field.

rfry said:

While some may view AM broadcasts to be antiquated, they do have large listening audiences even in 2017. In some cities, AM broadcast stations still have the largest listening audiences in those markets.

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"Large audiences" is a relative term. I'm not telling you something you don't already know Richard, but AM listening has been on the decline since the 90's. Anymore, younger listeners (12-35) don't even know the AM band exists, nor do they care. AM receivers are being eliminated from some models of auto entertainment systems. It is unfortunate, coming from someone who cut their teeth at AM stations and constructed and moved several AM stations over 35 years in this business. Time marches on.

rfry said:

The purpose of my "Part 15" posts is to provide technically accurate and documented information about the configuration and performance of unlicensed systems that actually comply with Part 15, for those who want to install/operate one.

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That's all well and good Richard, but I would argue that the information you provided is your opinion, not necessarily whether the installation of a MW Part 15 unlicensed system as you described, can meet the coverage requirements under Part 15. The call is ultimately made by a Commission Field Agent, who will be measuring the distance with his FIM 21 and comparing that with what is in the rules. From a practical standpoint, there aren't as many field offices nor agents to enforce the rules anymore, but what's written in the rules is what they go by in the field. Just because you have an opinion letter on an inquiry, doesn't mean the rules are printed differently. Unless someone is willing to take the time to challenge the an NAL, including the cost of legal representation, I would recommend to anyone following your thread to be very cautious. All it takes is for someone to file a complaint, and you can have a big target painted on you, and for what? A Part 15 unlicensed station on the AM band? Totally not worth it.

Okay Joe, now you can go after me for my tone.

Waste of time.

Your tone speaks for itself.

DavidEduardo said:

I still can't imagine using AM for music!

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Okay I realize that in this day and age AM music is mostly out, not likely to be improved, etc ... but, what might it have taken, at least technically, for music on AM in the USA to sound at least as good as this, or better?

AM stations in Japan are allowed audio bandwidth of 30 Hz through 15Khz. Because of band congestion, (among other reasons) U.S. stations are limited to 10Khz. There are also a lot less stations on the band in Japan than in the U.S.

This recording may be a little deceiving too, because it's probably streamed with audio from the station modulation monitor, not from a consumer perspective where terrestrial noise, platform motion, and other man made and physics, screw up the listening experience.

I absolutely LOVE this conversation -- the pros and the cons.

Just for snots and giggles, I bought one of those Rangemaster things. It came with the transmitting aerial in a long box.

The radio station, if it ever goes on, will be far more of a hobby and a job reference for those involved than it will be a money machine, of course.

Several years ago, I had been in touch with a fellow who owned and operated a Part-15/LPAM in a few cities. He had sort of a snarky attitude, but to me he knew what he was doing.

Well, anyway, our still-intact group had an lpFm all set and licensed and up and at 'em. But that EAS/Conelrad/Public File/Underwriting bull$#!+ swiftly made things a PITA after a while. We still 'own' the frequency in these parts; however, the lpAm became more viable.

As I've said : We're not into this to become independently wealthy. If someone can please contact me at my eMail to outline how we legally can get the LPAM/Part 15 out clearly in a solid one-mile radius, I will welcome any discussion and advice (and fees). Everyone to whom I've spoken the past year doesn't seem to have a clue regarding the biggest factor to signal range .... ground system or frequency or modulation, etc. I've heard wisdom from each of those fine and knowledgeable people, but heck -- I'm just the owner. Nowadays, what does any station owner know about uv/M or radials? Lol

Contact me. [email protected]

Tia!

Multiple GPS frequency locked Rangemasters will do it

df

Steve Green NEPA said:

I absolutely LOVE this conversation -- the pros and the cons.

Just for snots and giggles, I bought one of those Rangemaster things. It came with the transmitting aerial in a long box.

The radio station, if it ever goes on, will be far more of a hobby and a job reference for those involved than it will be a money machine, of course.

Several years ago, I had been in touch with a fellow who owned and operated a Part-15/LPAM in a few cities. He had sort of a snarky attitude, but to me he knew what he was doing.

Well, anyway, our still-intact group had an lpFm all set and licensed and up and at 'em. But that EAS/Conelrad/Public File/Underwriting bull$#!+ swiftly made things a PITA after a while. We still 'own' the frequency in these parts; however, the lpAm became more viable.

As I've said : We're not into this to become independently wealthy. If someone can please contact me at my eMail to outline how we legally can get the LPAM/Part 15 out clearly in a solid one-mile radius, I will welcome any discussion and advice (and fees). Everyone to whom I've spoken the past year doesn't seem to have a clue regarding the biggest factor to signal range .... ground system or frequency or modulation, etc. I've heard wisdom from each of those fine and knowledgeable people, but heck -- I'm just the owner. Nowadays, what does any station owner know about uv/M or radials? Lol

Contact me. [email protected]

Tia!

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Steve Green NEPA said:

... If someone can please contact me at my eMail to outline how we legally can get the LPAM/Part 15 out clearly in a solid one-mile radius, I will welcome any discussion and advice (and fees). Everyone to whom I've spoken the past year doesn't seem to have a clue regarding the biggest factor to signal range .... ground system or frequency or modulation, etc. ...

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A lot of time has passed, but since the earlier posts the more recent graphic shown below addresses this request...

Kelly A said:

I still don't get why you're so excited about this. Doing part 15 on the AM band, is like inventing carbon fiber buggy whips.

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It's a technical discussion.

Kelly A said:

I still don't get why you're so excited about this. Doing part 15 on the AM band, is like inventing carbon fiber buggy whips.

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I can tell you exactly why. There are those of us who arent engineers, but are on air talent/program director types like me whove worked in radio for ages.. love the technical side.. and this is a safe way to tinker and experiment with RF.... sometimes i just love hearing something ive produced corsing through the airwaves on my own transmitter