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80s rap song on an 80s/90s Classic Hits station?

semoochie said:
I have a question: Why is "Little Girl" by the "Syndicate of Sound" not Rap?
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I'll take a shot at that.

The most obvious reason is that there was no such description in 1966.

"Hey Little Girl" contains actual music - something most rap "songs" do not. It has guitar riffs (and changes in those riffs) as well as multiple types of percussion instruments. While the lead "singer" speaks the lyrics instead of actually singing them this alone does not make a rap "song". Many pop songs have sections where the lead singer speaks rather than sings and none of them are considered rap because virtually all of them also contain actual music.
 
landtuna said:
I'll take a shot at that.

The most obvious reason is that there was no such description in 1966.

"Hey Little Girl" contains actual music - something most rap "songs" do not. It has guitar riffs (and changes in those riffs) as well as multiple types of percussion instruments. While the lead "singer" speaks the lyrics instead of actually singing them this alone does not make a rap "song". Many pop songs have sections where the lead singer speaks rather than sings and none of them are considered rap because virtually all of them also contain actual music.
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Most Hip-hop songs are full of Rap lyrics but what's left is certainly "music", as is "Little Girl" but the latter has no singing. What makes it not Rap? Why does it just sound like 60s Rock? Clearly, it is not a narrative either.
 
semoochie said:
Most Hip-hop songs are full of Rap lyrics but what's left is certainly "music", as is "Little Girl" but the latter has no singing. What makes it not Rap? Why does it just sound like 60s Rock? Clearly, it is not a narrative either.
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I would put rap and Hip-Hop in different genres although the distinction is insignificant. I do not listen to either but as many people who do tell me the difference is enough that people who like Hip-Hop do not like rap and vice versa.

You apparently did not read my earlier post about the makeup of rap - the lack of music. Rap typically has nothing but speaking and rhythm - no music. "Hey Little Girl" does have music and that means it isn't rap (even if there were such a definition way back then).
 
rap music
Examples
noun
1.
a style of popular music, developed by disc jockeys and urban blacks in the late 1970s, in which an insistent, recurring beat pattern provides the background and counterpoint for rapid, slangy, and often boastful rhyming patter glibly intoned by a vocalist or vocalists.

Huh, must be music after all. Funny how that works.
 
AbrahamJSimpson said:
rap music
Examples
noun
1.
a style of popular music, developed by disc jockeys and urban blacks in the late 1970s, in which an insistent, recurring beat pattern provides the background and counterpoint for rapid, slangy, and often boastful rhyming patter glibly intoned by a vocalist or vocalists.

Huh, must be music after all. Funny how that works.
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Notice your "source" didn't use the term "singer". A "vocalist" is a term like "classic rock". It can mean anything.

If it ain't music - it ain't music.
 
Aw, does a dictionary that doesn't support your narrow view have to earn a place in quotes to feel better? :)

A vocalist means what it means. And rap is music. Not in your narrow world, perhaps. But in the real world, anyway. ;)
 
landtuna said:
Notice your "source" didn't use the term "singer". A "vocalist" is a term like "classic rock". It can mean anything.

If it ain't music - it ain't music.
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Merriam-Webster:

Music (n)
a : the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity.
b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony.

Note the "ors" in definition b. This would qualify rap, which has rhythm in abundance, as music. Talking blues, "Let It Out" and "Hey Little Girl," too. Electronic dance music qualifies under definition a. However, Philip Glass's 4' 33", which consists of silence, is not music by any definition. Can we agree on that?
 
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Please excuse the extra two cents here. From one old-timer to another, tuna, your viewpoint would eliminate any music sung Acapella, if I understand your argument correctly. The only musical instrument used there, of course, is the human voice..Much the same as rap, hip hop, or however people wish to term it. I am beyond the age of understanding the artform myself, but it is most certainly a valid style of musical presentation.
 
The Harsh Reality said:
Please excuse the extra two cents here. From one old-timer to another, tuna, your viewpoint would eliminate any music sung Acapella, if I understand your argument correctly. The only musical instrument used there, of course, is the human voice..Much the same as rap, hip hop, or however people wish to term it. I am beyond the age of understanding the artform myself, but it is most certainly a valid style of musical presentation.
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Ah, but the human voice can be a musical instrument. So is wax paper and a comb. Jews harp. etc. But the human voice in speech mode is not considered music.
 
landtuna said:
Ah, but the human voice can be a musical instrument. So is wax paper and a comb. Jews harp. etc. But the human voice in speech mode is not considered music.
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The wax paper and a comb is a bit of a stretch, much like an expanded rubber band would be considered "music", or any of those noise bands that the college station airs down here every night, banging garbage can lids together and striking a high hat cymbal every few minutes. While I agree with you that the speech itself is not considered music, rap music maintains a tempo, beat pattern, and in most cases, an instrumental underscore of some sort. All of which I think we can agree are necessary components for consideration as "music". Without those components, you end up with nothing but noise.
 
The Harsh Reality said:
The wax paper and a comb is a bit of a stretch, much like an expanded rubber band would be considered "music", or any of those noise bands that the college station airs down here every night, banging garbage can lids together and striking a high hat cymbal every few minutes. While I agree with you that the speech itself is not considered music, rap music maintains a tempo, beat pattern, and in most cases, an instrumental underscore of some sort. All of which I think we can agree are necessary components for consideration as "music". Without those components, you end up with nothing but noise.
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The wax paper and comb need a human voice to produce a sound, just as any wind or woodwind instrument does. Why wouldn't the sound produced by humming into such a device -- or a kazoo, for that matter -- not be considered music if the humming has a melody to it? I don't think it's possible to rap into either device, though.
 
CTListener said:
The wax paper and comb need a human voice to produce a sound, just as any wind or woodwind instrument does. Why wouldn't the sound produced by humming into such a device -- or a kazoo, for that matter -- not be considered music if the humming has a melody to it? I don't think it's possible to rap into either device, though.
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Right, but depending on who's playing it, dictates whether or not the noise coming from any instrument can be construed as music. Hand me a guitar, and the sounds you would hear could be considered nothing reminiscent of actual music. Make it a set of drums, and I'll play circles around a significant quantity of people.

I would think that as long as you can produce a sound that has a scale of successful notes to it, it qualifies as music. Even if it's this: https://youtu.be/qx8hrhBZJ98
 
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The Harsh Reality said:
While I agree with you that the speech itself is not considered music, rap music maintains a tempo, beat pattern, and in most cases, an instrumental underscore of some sort.
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I am already on record as disagreeing with the part in bold above. Virtually all of the rap I have ever heard (and I will submit it isn't anywhere near all of it) does not have any non-percussion instrumentation.
 
landtuna said:
I am already on record as disagreeing with the part in bold above. Virtually all of the rap I have ever heard (and I will submit it isn't anywhere near all of it) does not have any non-percussion instrumentation.
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And yet another qualifier put around it--the instrumentation has to be non-percussion to qualify. And on top of that, "virtually all" of a presumably small sample doesn't happen to have non percussion. That renders the disagreement pretty much meaningless. As a matter of common understanding, it is music, just as disco was despite the haters, just as country is despite the haters....and on and on.
 
The Harsh Reality said:
Right, but depending on who's playing it, dictates whether or not the noise coming from any instrument can be construed as music. Hand me a guitar, and the sounds you would hear could be considered nothing reminiscent of actual music. Make it a set of drums, and I'll play circles around a significant quantity of people.

I would think that as long as you can produce a sound that has a scale of successful notes to it, it qualifies as music. Even if it's this: https://youtu.be/qx8hrhBZJ98
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I'm surprised you didn't catch my goof on the human voice. Of course, it's not needed at all to play winds or woodwinds; you just blow. And to play a brass instrument -- I know this for certain, having played trombone as a youngster -- you pucker your lips and control the air flow that comes out. Thus, the need for the spit valve and the disgusting chore of draining the horn.
 
landtuna said:
I am already on record as disagreeing with the part in bold above. Virtually all of the rap I have ever heard (and I will submit it isn't anywhere near all of it) does not have any non-percussion instrumentation.
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Bass guitar -- actual or synthesized -- is not a percussion instrument. That's what gives the sound its "bottom." A rap record with only drums would have no depth to it at all.
 
AbrahamJSimpson said:
And yet another qualifier put around it--the instrumentation has to be non-percussion to qualify. And on top of that, "virtually all" of a presumably small sample doesn't happen to have non percussion. That renders the disagreement pretty much meaningless. As a matter of common understanding, it is music, just as disco was despite the haters, just as country is despite the haters....and on and on.
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Except both Disco and Country are music - unpleasant as they might be.
 
Someone else on this forum has it right. Music is like candy, much better without the (w)rappers.
 
landtuna said:
Someone else on this forum has it right. Music is like candy, much better without the (w)rappers.
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That's a matter of taste, not of quality.
 
landtuna said:
Except both Disco and Country are music - unpleasant as they might be.
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Again, a matter of taste. Many of us liked disco, at least for a while. And many more find country to be the replacement for the original rock & roll, but with better singers.
 
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