• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

80s rap song on an 80s/90s Classic Hits station?

DavidEduardo said:


As an aside, in case it was not a typo, it was KEWB, not KWEB. KEWB in San Francisco, KFWB in LA and KDWB in Minneapolis were Crowell-Collier sister stations.
Click to expand...

I made that typo two times. Found it once. Damn! I hate it when that happens. Yes, the summer of 1966 KEWB Oakland, CA flipped from T-40 to talk leaving KYA and the automated KGO-FM playing rock music in The City. Those of us that could also listened to KFRC but it didn't come in very listenable in the extreme north bay. KLOC was also on the air but their signal wasn't getting into the north bay very well either. They had that weird ticking sound in the background during song breaks - kind of like the teletype background played during news breaks on some stations.

P.S. KEWB had their offices in Jack London Square in Oakland during this time and used Oakland as their COL. I never heard them identify as a San Francisco station.
 
landtuna said:
I made that typo two times. Found it once. Damn! I hate it when that happens. Yes, the summer of 1966 KEWB Oakland, CA flipped from T-40 to talk leaving KYA and the automated KGO-FM playing rock music in The City. Those of us that could also listened to KFRC but it didn't come in very listenable in the extreme north bay. KLOC was also on the air but their signal wasn't getting into the north bay very well either. They had that weird ticking sound in the background during song breaks - kind of like the teletype background played during news breaks on some stations.
Click to expand...

KEWB was killed by KFRC almost immediately when Tom Rounds and the Drake team switched it to Top 40. KYA lasted a bit longer, but its weak signal high on the dial did not cover a third of the market's people by day and only much, much less with its 1 kw at night.

I don't know why you had trouble with KFRC... one of the best signals in the market and by far the best one doing Top 40. KFRC was at the top of the book in Santa Rosa and did very well in Sacramento, as well. While, by all accounts, the best programmed Top 40, KFRC also won by being on that wonderful low dial position with enough power to be a "local" in Stockton and Santa Cruz and even down to Monterey in those days of a less noisy AM band.

KLOK has always been a San Jose station, and did not really push anything other than the South Bay coverage area.

P.S. KEWB had their offices in Jack London Square in Oakland during this time and used Oakland as their COL. I never heard them identify as a San Francisco station.
Click to expand...

KEWB was indeed licensed to Oakland. It operated as a San Francisco market station, and its transmitter was in the same East Bay area as many of the licensed-to-San Francisco stations. KABL, which achieved killer ratings in the early 60's, was also licensed to Oakland, for example; they were reprimanded by the FCC for "pretending" to be licensed to San Francisco. It didn't matter as the cable car bell they used in their imaging screamed "San Francisco" quite loudly.
 
Last edited:
DavidEduardo said:


KEWB was killed by KFRC almost immediately when Tom Rounds and the Drake team switched it to Top 40. KYA lasted a bit longer, but its weak signal high on the dial did not cover a third of the market's people by day and only much, much less with its 1 kw at night.

I don't know why you had trouble with KFRC... one of the best signals in the market and by far the best one doing Top 40. KFRC was at the top of the book in Santa Rosa and did very well in Sacramento, as well. While, by all accounts, the best programmed Top 40, KFRC also won by being on that wonderful low dial position with enough power to be a "local" in Stockton and Santa Cruz and even down to Monterey in those days of a less noisy AM band.

KLOK has always been a San Jose station, and did not really push anything other than the South Bay coverage area.



KEWB was indeed licensed to Oakland. It operated as a San Francisco market station, and its transmitter was in the same East Bay area as many of the licensed-to-San Francisco stations. KABL, which achieved killer ratings in the early 60's, was also licensed to Oakland, for example; they were reprimanded by the FCC for "pretending" to be licensed to San Francisco. It didn't matter as the cable car bell they used in their imaging screamed "San Francisco" quite loudly.
Click to expand...

Marin County always had issues with those AM signals = especially those from the South Bay. KEWB came in loud and clear in San Rafael but KFRC not so much. Perhaps we were nulled out. In the '66-68 time period I listened to KYA in the mornings and KGO-FM at other times because those were the stations that boomed into Marin once KEWB flipped.

Thanks for the call correction on KLOK. I could not remember whether they used a K or a C in their call. The years are beginning to drift away......

Also, KFI was big when I was in SoCal as well. Forgot about them.
 
Last edited:
landtuna said:
Marin County always had issues with those AM signals = especially those from the South Bay. KEWB came in loud and clear in San Rafael but KFRC not so much. Perhaps we were nulled out. In the '66-68 time period I listened to KYA in the mornings and KGO-FM at other times because those were the stations that boomed into Marin once KEWB flipped.
Click to expand...

KFRC is non-directional, 5 kw on 610. It's transmitter site is on the north shoreline of Emeryville, just south of Berkeley. It sits on salt water, and has a salt water path to the Marin County area.

I ran field strength calculations on a ZIP Code in Novato based on the facilities that KEWB (KKSF today) and KYA (KFSB today) had in 1968 as well as KFRC (KEAR today). KFRC has more than double the field strength in the middle of Novato than either of the others.

In San Rafael, KEAR has 2 1/2 times the signal of KYA and double the KEWB signal in San Rafael.
 
DavidEduardo said:


KFRC is non-directional, 5 kw on 610. It's transmitter site is on the north shoreline of Emeryville, just south of Berkeley. It sits on salt water, and has a salt water path to the Marin County area.

I ran field strength calculations on a ZIP Code in Novato based on the facilities that KEWB (KKSF today) and KYA (KFSB today) had in 1968 as well as KFRC (KEAR today). KFRC has more than double the field strength in the middle of Novato than either of the others.

In San Rafael, KEAR has 2 1/2 times the signal of KYA and double the KEWB signal in San Rafael.
Click to expand...

My home then was in an area called Santa Venetia which was then the extreme north of San Rafael. To the east (and right across the street) we had a large hill and beyond that a range of hills out to the eastern edge of San Pablo Bay which may be the reason KFRC didn't come in clearly at the house. But I don't remember receiving it all that well in the car either. I used to have a very early morning paper route which took me from San Anselmo all the way to the (then) western edge of Fairfax and I can't remember ever getting KFRC without lots of static in those early morning hours. We also had large hills to the south which is why KYA didn't come in clearly at night either.

There was nothing but flat land to the north but I don't remember listening to any station from Novato, Santa Rosa or even Sacramento.
 
landtuna said:
My home then was in an area called Santa Venetia which was then the extreme north of San Rafael. To the east (and right across the street) we had a large hill and beyond that a range of hills out to the eastern edge of San Pablo Bay which may be the reason KFRC didn't come in clearly at the house. But I don't remember receiving it all that well in the car either. I used to have a very early morning paper route which took me from San Anselmo all the way to the (then) western edge of Fairfax and I can't remember ever getting KFRC without lots of static in those early morning hours. We also had large hills to the south which is why KYA didn't come in clearly at night either.
Click to expand...

Hills are not an obstruction for AM stations (unless they are huge mountain ranges), particularly powerhouse signals like KFRC which put nearly a 25 mV/m over the central part of Marin County and over all over San Rafael. AM is not line of sight... it travels with the contours of the earth.

The KFRC transmitter can be seen from the shoreline in Marin with binoculars... it is right where the 580 intersects with Ashby with its radials in salt water! And that is the absolute best place for an AM! Remember, 1 kw at 550 is about as good for coverage as 50 kw at 1500, so the KFRC signal, with a pure salt water path to Marin was ultra strong in the whole area... well enough to be a top rated station in Santa Rosa at the time. Heck, the first multi-label multi-artist multi-day outdoor event ever was staged in Marin by Tom Rounds and KFRC and that event became the model for Monterey, Miami and then Woodstock.

There was nothing but flat land to the north but I don't remember listening to any station from Novato, Santa Rosa or even Sacramento.
Click to expand...

But KFRC was in the top coupla' stations in Santa Rosa, as well as Sacramento, Modesto and Stockton. If it had the signal you say it did, it would not have done that!

KFRC Coverage Map link.
 
Last edited:
I could see Tone Loc fitting into a classic hits format just fine. I'd also play Push It from Salt-N-Pepa and Bust A Move from Young MC.
 
CTListener said:
Do people who listen to these '80s-'90s classic hits stations even know the format by that name? Throwbacks, maybe? Old school? Or maybe oldies, just as we boomers do for '50s/'60s/pre-disco '70s stations?
Click to expand...

The term throwbacks and old school is mainly reserved for radio stations that play older urban or rhythmic music genres funk, disco, R&B, hip hop, etc, like rhythmic/urban AC stations or classic hip hop . Classic hits refers to stations that play pop hits and classic rock, that were once traditional oldies stations, some however do play the latter genres mentioned.

Oddly enough, one of my local Hot AC stations Magic 105.3 used to play Bust a Move by Young MC a few times a day, a song you wouldn't normally here on a Hot AC station. I've heard hip hop on my local classic hits station KONO 101.1FM on shows like American Top 40 on Sundays, it is a bit odd to hear it on a station that used to be known for playing stuff like Beatles and Beach Boys, but I guess it's no different than when they started playing funk and disco records. The only hip hop song in rotation I hear on there frequently is Rumors by Timex Social Club and I Feel for You by Chaka Khan, has that rapping bit.

I can see a classic hits station playing some light hip hop songs or some cross-over hip hop R&B songs like Fugees Killing Me Softly, and maybe even something like Biz Markie's Just a Friend. I don't think they'll dig to deep into the genre like the current classic hip hop format, which plays stuff like gangsta rap and rap songs that weren't chart toppers, but are still popular with fans. Another thing I can see classic hits stations playing is maybe freestyle from the late 80's-early 90's, in markets where there are a lot of Hispanics anyway like San San Antonio, Miami, Orlando, and NY.
 
Last edited:
CTListener said:
I can see rap becoming part of classic hits on stations that have eliminated all of the '70s and much of the first half of the '80s, focusing primarily on 1987-99, when rap went mainstream and became a big part of many CHR playlists. But the listeners who love the sounds of MTV's heyday are still in the Sacred Sales Demo, so I don't see many stations making that shift for another few years.
Click to expand...

No such thing as a "rap song". It is spoken word but better not heard.
 
landtuna said:
No such thing as a "rap song". It is spoken word but better not heard.
Click to expand...
Yes, there most certainly is such a thing as a rap song. Common usage of the term. You may not care for it, but your individual tastes do not dictate reality any more than anyone else's individually.
 
AbrahamJSimpson said:
Yes, there most certainly is such a thing as a rap song. Common usage of the term. You may not care for it, but your individual tastes do not dictate reality any more than anyone else's individually.
Click to expand...

Ah, but it isn't just my "individually". Do you remember the dislike bordering on outright contempt that the Disco genre suffered? I do. But I do not remember anyone actually flying into a rage when a Disco song came on and some of them were actually good. Not rap. Back when my youngest kids were teens they would come home with stories about how their friend's parents flew into fits and prohibited them from listening to rap. I knew many families, including my own, that would not tolerate rap on their music devices. Rap seemed to generate the most intense hatred which also occurred during the very early days of Rock and Roll back in the 50's except many times larger.
 
Aquarius said:
The term throwbacks and old school is mainly reserved for radio stations that play older urban or rhythmic music genres funk, disco, R&B, hip hop, etc, like rhythmic/urban AC stations or classic hip hop . Classic hits refers to stations that play pop hits and classic rock, that were once traditional oldies stations, some however do play the latter genres mentioned.
Click to expand...

And, while "old school" and "throwbacks" are terms that come from the street and are used by listeners, the term "classic hits" was invented by radio station management to distance stations from the "oldies" term which was becoming poison at the sales level.

While some pop gold based stations have adopted the "classic hits" term for on-air use, it is predominantly an industry format descriptor for sales purposes. In fact, a big percentage of listeners do not understand the difference between the terms "classic hits" and "classic rock" even though, in the industry, we see them as two very separate formats.
 
DavidEduardo said:

In fact, a big percentage of listeners do not understand the difference between the terms "classic hits" and "classic rock" even though, in the industry, we see them as two very separate formats.
Click to expand...

Really? I'm just a listener but have always thought that "classic rock" was a heavier, more intense, version of "classic hits". I would not expect to hear light pop rock songs on a CR station for instance but on CH almost everything flies.
 
landtuna said:
Really? I'm just a listener but have always thought that "classic rock" was a heavier, more intense, version of "classic hits". I would not expect to hear light pop rock songs on a CR station for instance but on CH almost everything flies.
Click to expand...

"Classic Rock" was a term in use many, many years before "Classic Hits" was used broadly. It is the morph of AOR, in simple terms. Their playlists come from the AOR charts of decades past.

As oldies stations found themselves in deep trouble a few years after the beginning of the New Millennium, they gradually began to shed the 60's stuff an to move into the 70's. Over the last decade, even much of the earlier 70's has been eliminated with 80's predominating.

As oldies stations moved away from the 60's core, they found that the oldies name was very negative at the buying level, as it evoked visions of geezer demos among media department staffers. So, while very much being formats that played old songs, those songs were the survivors of the Hot 100 and similar pop charts, not the album rock charts. The two formats share titles in varying percentages, but they are hardly the same.
 
landtuna said:
Ah, but it isn't just my "individually". Do you remember the dislike bordering on outright contempt that the Disco genre suffered? I do. But I do not remember anyone actually flying into a rage when a Disco song came on and some of them were actually good. Not rap. Back when my youngest kids were teens they would come home with stories about how their friend's parents flew into fits and prohibited them from listening to rap. I knew many families, including my own, that would not tolerate rap on their music devices. Rap seemed to generate the most intense hatred which also occurred during the very early days of Rock and Roll back in the 50's except many times larger.
Click to expand...

That you and some neighbors were intolerant of a certain type of music doesn't mean there's no such thing as a rap song. Your issues don't reflect the larger society.
 
AbrahamJSimpson said:
That you and some neighbors were intolerant of a certain type of music doesn't mean there's no such thing as a rap song. Your issues don't reflect the larger society.
Click to expand...

No need to get upset. I was merely making an observation that more than a few people I knew expressed total dislike of the genre. I am sure every one of us has music they don't like. My surprise was seeing that reaction in a significant number of people who otherwise were more or less neutral about music.

But, to be "music" there are several required components and rap typically has only one - rhythm. The lyrics are most often spoken, not sung and the rest is usually completely missing. There are exceptions of course but this seems to be the norm. I won't even get into the all too common disgusting themes.
 
landtuna said:
No need to get upset. I was merely making an observation that more than a few people I knew expressed total dislike of the genre. I am sure every one of us has music they don't like. My surprise was seeing that reaction in a significant number of people who otherwise were more or less neutral about music.

But, to be "music" there are several required components and rap typically has only one - rhythm. The lyrics are most often spoken, not sung and the rest is usually completely missing. There are exceptions of course but this seems to be the norm. I won't even get into the all too common disgusting themes.
Click to expand...

I'm no fan of rap, but the genre traces back to "talking blues," which have always been regarded as a form of music. Also, most rap has either sampled or original instrumentals other than drums/drum machines, which do lend something closer to a traditionally defined musical background to the proceedings.
 
landtuna said:
No need to get upset. I was merely making an observation that more than a few people I knew expressed total dislike of the genre. I am sure every one of us has music they don't like. My surprise was seeing that reaction in a significant number of people who otherwise were more or less neutral about music.

But, to be "music" there are several required components and rap typically has only one - rhythm. The lyrics are most often spoken, not sung and the rest is usually completely missing. There are exceptions of course but this seems to be the norm. I won't even get into the all too common disgusting themes.
Click to expand...

Expressing a total dislike for a genre doesn't make the songs "not songs." Simple as that.

And disgusting themes, being in the eye--or ear, I guess--of the beholder is hardly unique to any one genre.
 
AbrahamJSimpson said:
Expressing a total dislike for a genre doesn't make the songs "not songs." Simple as that.

And disgusting themes, being in the eye--or ear, I guess--of the beholder is hardly unique to any one genre.
Click to expand...
I have a question: Why is "Little Girl" by the "Syndicate of Sound" not Rap?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.
Back
Top Bottom