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Changes in Cumulus CHRs?

B

bchristi

Frequent Participant
In late January, the CEO of Cumulus Mary Berner announced that she was going to give more control to the local markets in terms of song selection.

For about two weeks in February, my Cumulus CHR started sounding really good, almost like it did under Citadel. It was very current with more personality. It has since reverted back to the typical gold-based Cumulus playlist that it's had since 2012, with a tight selection of currents with a heavy mixture of gold rhythmic tracks going back to the early 2000s. I think there is slightly less gold now than there was prior to the tweak, but it still sounds bad. I have come to the conclusion that its not necessarily how much gold they are playing that makes it sound bad, but how far back they are going. They have a 'Throwback Thursday', which there is no point in being that they play the same throwbacks every day, every hour.

Personally I think in terms of their gold playlist it would sound much better if they would focus on older songs from THIS decade. Going back five years is acceptable. Going back 20 years isn't on a Top 40 station, especially every hour. My station ignores more recent gold and instead opts to play overplayed garbage from the early 2000s like "Hot in Heere" by Nelly or "In Da Club" by 50 Cent. Meanwhile, there are plenty of songs that were huge between 2010 and 2015 that are never played anymore.

Has anybody in other markets noticed any changes in Cumulus CHRs? Has yours gone more current or has it remained gold-heavy?
 
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bchristi said:
In late January, the CEO of Cumulus Mary Berner announced that she was going to give more control to the local markets in terms of song selection.

For about two weeks in February, my Cumulus CHR started sounding really good, almost like it did under Citadel. It was very current with more personality. It has since reverted back to the typical gold-based Cumulus playlist that it's had since 2012, with a tight selection of currents with a heavy mixture of gold rhythmic tracks going back to the early 2000s. I think there is slightly less gold now than there was prior to the tweak, but it still sounds bad. I have come to the conclusion that its not necessarily how much gold they are playing that makes it sound bad, but how far back they are going. They have a 'Throwback Thursday', which there is no point in being that they play the same throwbacks every day, every hour.

Personally I think in terms of their gold playlist it would sound much better if they would focus on older songs from THIS decade. Going back five years is acceptable. Going back 20 years isn't on a Top 40 station, especially every hour. My station ignores more recent gold and instead opts to play overplayed garbage from the early 2000s like "Hot in Heere" by Nelly or "In Da Club" by 50 Cent. Meanwhile, there are plenty of songs that were huge between 2010 and 2015 that are never played anymore.

Has anybody in other markets noticed any changes in Cumulus CHRs? Has yours gone more current or has it remained gold-heavy?
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http://kchz.tunegenie.com/

95.7 seems to sound worse lately, mainly because it focuses too much on overplayed recurrents that are on other stations like "Shake it Off" and "Shut Up and Dance." I actually thought when they added more golds in line with other Cumulus CHRs around the country it sounded better, like "Rather Be" by Clean Bandit, "Forever" by Chris Brown and a few other songs. Nowadays, it's kind of a more "vanilla" CHR, and the ratings show it.
 
tall_guy1 said:
http://kchz.tunegenie.com/

95.7 seems to sound worse lately, mainly because it focuses too much on overplayed recurrents that are on other stations like "Shake it Off" and "Shut Up and Dance." I actually thought when they added more golds in line with other Cumulus CHRs around the country it sounded better, like "Rather Be" by Clean Bandit, "Forever" by Chris Brown and a few other songs. Nowadays, it's kind of a more "vanilla" CHR, and the ratings show it.
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I don't know. There really is a fine line. If you are going to be gold-heavy, how far do you go back and what do you play? I think one of the biggest problems with Cumulus has been they go back too far and some of the songs in their gold rotation are dated rhythmic tracks which have not aged well and have no place on a CHR in 2016. If I was programming a station for instance, I might play "Forever" by Chris Brown, but wouldn't play "Drop It Like Its Hot" by Snoop Dogg.
 
bchristi said:
Personally I think in terms of their gold playlist it would sound much better if they would focus on older songs from THIS decade. Going back five years is acceptable. Going back 20 years isn't on a Top 40 station, especially every hour.
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Historically, CHRs never went back very far for golds once the format morphed from the old top-40 format of the 1960s and 1970s. I worked at a CHR in 1984 that went only as far back as 1979 for its two golds an hour, except for morning drive which had more songs dayparted out of it and so went back about another three or four years to compensate. I was later PD of that same station and we tightened it further ... to go back only about two years all day, and dropping gold entirely between 6:00 and 9:00am.

At twenty years, you're getting into songs that simply don't flow with your currents and recurrents. And that risks every gold being a potential tune-out for your listeners. I don't know why the station you describe is doing that, but perhaps there is something their research has turned up which makes it justifiable.

But generally speaking, 20 to 30 years back is Classic Hits territory, not CHR.
 
K.M. Richards said:
At twenty years, you're getting into songs that simply don't flow with your currents and recurrents. And that risks every gold being a potential tune-out for your listeners. I don't know why the station you describe is doing that, but perhaps there is something their research has turned up which makes it justifiable.
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I completely agree with this. For the couple of weeks when they were current I enjoyed listening, but now I tune out every time a song like "Hot In Heere" or "Big Pimpin" comes on. It doesn't flow well with the currents and recurrents and makes the station sound like an iPod shuffle. The station has been doing this since 2012 however when Cumulus took away local control and consolidated it to Jan Jeffries. The ratings tanked as well after they made that change.

I think two years is good with five being acceptable. I think a station should be careful with song selections going back further than five years, especially rhythmic material. The station has a Throwback Thursday, which is acceptable to play those songs that are between 10 and 20 years old, but ONLY on Thursday should they be played. NOT every hour every day. As is, I don't see the point in Throwback Thursday since their playlist is pretty much the same every day.

Currently, the station probably averages one song per hour that goes back farther than 10 years, while the rest of their playlist is current and recurrent. Recent gold (which would flow much better with the currents and recurrents) seems to get ignored.
 
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K.M. Richards said:
Historically, CHRs never went back very far for golds once the format morphed from the old top-40 format of the 1960s and 1970s. I worked at a CHR in 1984 that went only as far back as 1979 for its two golds an hour, except for morning drive which had more songs dayparted out of it and so went back about another three or four years to compensate. I was later PD of that same station and we tightened it further ... to go back only about two years all day, and dropping gold entirely between 6:00 and 9:00am.

At twenty years, you're getting into songs that simply don't flow with your currents and recurrents. And that risks every gold being a potential tune-out for your listeners. I don't know why the station you describe is doing that, but perhaps there is something their research has turned up which makes it justifiable.

But generally speaking, 20 to 30 years back is Classic Hits territory, not CHR.
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Our CHR, Mix 93.3 would go back during dayparts all the way in 2013 playing songs like "Just Like Heaven" by The Cure, "Soak Up the Sun" by Sheryl Crow, "Bizarre Love Triangle" by New Order, and many other of the kilt from about 9 a.m. to 3 p.m., mixing them in with current singles. They would also around 3:20 p.m. play an obscure oldie, even picking something like "Bohemian Rhapsody" by Queen one day--this feature was five days a week.
 
tall_guy1 said:
Our CHR, Mix 93.3 would go back during dayparts all the way in 2013 playing songs like "Just Like Heaven" by The Cure, "Soak Up the Sun" by Sheryl Crow, "Bizarre Love Triangle" by New Order, and many other of the kilt from about 9 a.m. to 3 p.m., mixing them in with current singles. They would also around 3:20 p.m. play an obscure oldie, even picking something like "Bohemian Rhapsody" by Queen one day--this feature was five days a week.
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Sounds like a Hot AC, but if its Cumulus, that sounds about right for how they program their stations, especially under Jan Jefferies when they were committed to that way of programming CHR.
 
bchristi said:
Sounds like a Hot AC, but if its Cumulus, that sounds about right for how they program their stations, especially under Jan Jefferies when they were committed to that way of programming CHR.
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It was actually a Wilks station, which is pretty much a small company that runs the exact same way Cumulus does--as low-budget and conservative as possible. The station was more of an Adult CHR much like WZYP. However, since Steel City took over, its really mainstreamed.
 
Hello. Anyways, here to discuss my local Cumulus CHR/Top 40 station, 104.1 KRBE in Houston:

Ever since John Kilgo took over for Cumulus during the summer of 2013, KRBE has definently gotten better. In bchristi's thread started back in 2012 about how bad Cumulus runs their CHR stations, a major point of discussion was how they would play a lot of pop/rhythmic tracks from the mid-to-late 2000's, and while I can definitely say that was the case with KRBE during the Jeffries days, that has definitely stopped ever since Kilgo took over. KRBE has also gotten faster with adds, but the biggest improvement they have made is how they handle current Rhythmic/Urban music. When Jeffries ran the show, they were extremely conservative with what rhythmic tracks they added, and not even the biggest of rhythmic hits could get into power rotation on Cumulus stations, plus on pop songs with a guest rapper, they would remove the rap verse. Nowadays though, they are not afraid to jump on Rhythmic songs and put the big rap hits on power rotation and leave featured rap verses in songs whenever they come up. However, KRBE still has a lot of room for improvement.

Even though they are faster with adds than they were during the Jeffries era, they still aren't as fast as they should be for a station in the NUMBER SIX (!!!!) ranked radio market of Houston. According to allaccess, KRBE on average only have about 20-25 currents in their top 50 at a time, even though a major market station should definently be averaging 25-30 currents AT MINIMUM! The last thing that they could improve on is playing a wider variety of recurrents. I just started noticing this sometime last year, but it really seems like when it comes to recurrents, KRBE specifically chooses to focus on songs that peaked 4-8 months ago on CHR. Again, according to allaccess, "Can't Feel My Face" by The Weeknd is NUMBER THIRTEEN on their playlist. I love the song and all, but no CHR station should have a song that peaked in August still in their top 15 in March.
 
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jt99 said:
According to allaccess, KRBE on average only have about 20-25 currents in their top 50 at a time, even though a major market station should definently be averaging 25-30 currents AT MINIMUM!
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At any given time, there are somewhere around 15-17 true testing currents (depending on when you think a current becomes a recurrent) and there will be somewhere around 5 new songs that have not yet matured enough for callout. So 25 or under is likely the right quantity.

That said, from the demos, it is obvious that the station behaves a bit like a hot AC station, with its best performance in 25-34 and 34-44 females, and the 18-24 being considerably lower. However the power rotations are definitely CHR-like.

The last thing that they could improve on is playing a wider variety of recurrents. I just started noticing this sometime last year, but it really seems like when it comes to recurrents, KRBE specifically chooses to focus on songs that peaked 4-8 months ago on CHR. Again, according to allaccess, "Can't Feel My Face" by The Weeknd is NUMBER THIRTEEN on their playlist. I love the song and all, but no CHR station should have a song that peaked in August still in their top 15 in March.
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If they do callout, they play recurrents in proportion to appeal. There is no rule that a song has to become a recurrent after 12 weeks or whatever. I have seen songs stay as currents for well over that arbitrary, record company instigated 3 month period. And I have seen recurrents hang in for much longer than 6 to 9 months if they keep testing and don't develop burn.

There also seems, from daypart analysis of the currents, to be a number of songs that are dayparted or only part of mix shows (if they have them...).
 
jt99 said:
Hello. Anyways, here to discuss my local Cumulus CHR/Top 40 station, 104.1 KRBE in Houston:

Ever since John Kilgo took over for Cumulus during the summer of 2013, KRBE has definently gotten better. In bchristi's thread started back in 2012 about how bad Cumulus runs their CHR stations, a major point of discussion was how they would play a lot of pop/rhythmic tracks from the mid-to-late 2000's, and while I can definitely say that was the case with KRBE during the Jeffries days, that has definitely stopped ever since Kilgo took over. KRBE has also gotten faster with adds, but the biggest improvement they have made is how they handle current Rhythmic/Urban music. When Jeffries ran the show, they were extremely conservative with what rhythmic tracks they added, and not even the biggest of rhythmic hits could get into power rotation on Cumulus stations, plus on pop songs with a guest rapper, they would remove the rap verse. Nowadays though, they are not afraid to jump on Rhythmic songs and put the big rap hits on power rotation and leave featured rap verses in songs whenever they come up. However, KRBE still has a lot of room for improvement.

Even though they are faster with adds than they were during the Jeffries era, they still aren't as fast as they should be for a station in the NUMBER SIX (!!!!) ranked radio market of Houston. According to allaccess, KRBE on average only have about 20-25 currents in their top 50 at a time, even though a major market station should definently be averaging 25-30 currents AT MINIMUM! The last thing that they could improve on is playing a wider variety of recurrents. I just started noticing this sometime last year, but it really seems like when it comes to recurrents, KRBE specifically chooses to focus on songs that peaked 4-8 months ago on CHR. Again, according to allaccess, "Can't Feel My Face" by The Weeknd is NUMBER THIRTEEN on their playlist. I love the song and all, but no CHR station should have a song that peaked in August still in their top 15 in March.
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There was definitely a change in Cumulus stations around Summer 2013. In late summer 2012, my local station KKWD was completely taken over by Jefferies, and in that period you didn't hear much that was current on the station and a majority of the playlist was rhythmic hits from around 2000 through 2011ish. In summer 2013, they became a little more current, but still too conservative and gold leaning to be enjoyable to listen to. Then in February 2016, they started to tweak it again, increasing the plays per week for the currents and decreasing the plays per week for deep gold. It went back an forth for a few weeks but seems to have settled into a balance. They also added on-air personalities back beyond the morning show (something the station had back when it was run by Citadel). Now, it does sound a little more acceptable, though there is still room for improvement.
 
I personally don't think KRBE is trying to be lean Hot AC anymore, but rather be a straight up mainstream CHR. They sound pretty decent now, but my problem is that they're a conservative mainstream CHR. Houston isn't really a super liberal market like San Francisco or anything, but I don't think Houston is anywhere close to conservative either, and seeing how diverse the market is, I really don't think it makes sense for a CHR to be conservative here. KRBE does beat the other CHR, Hot 95-7 pretty handily in the ratings (4.4 to 3.3), but I still feel like a change from conservative programming to non-conservative programming would give the station even better ratings.
 
jt99 said:
I personally don't think KRBE is trying to be lean Hot AC anymore, but rather be a straight up mainstream CHR. They sound pretty decent now, but my problem is that they're a conservative mainstream CHR. Houston isn't really a super liberal market like San Francisco or anything, but I don't think Houston is anywhere close to conservative either, and seeing how diverse the market is, I really don't think it makes sense for a CHR to be conservative here. KRBE does beat the other CHR, Hot 95-7 pretty handily in the ratings (4.4 to 3.3), but I still feel like a change from conservative programming to non-conservative programming would give the station even better ratings.
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Being that it's winning, I doubt the local PDs want to change things too quickly, though if Cumulus takes more of a hands-off approach and lets the PDs do their job, it wouldn't surprise me if the station becomes less conservative over time. I did take a look at the playlist though and it definitely needs some tweaking. It's very gold heavy, including plenty of rhythmic tracks from the early 2000s (like Yeah! by Usher) that don't flow well with today's music. It's typical Cumulus fashion. My biggest issue with Cumulus CHRs is the way they hold on to these overplayed gold tracks that sound awful when played alongside today's music. When songs like Yeah, Drop It Like It's Hot, Ride Wit Me, Hot In Heere, etc come on, I change the station. I see the station still plays "Call Me Maybe" which is awful. That was a fad song in the summer of 2012 that, like the Harlem Shake, Gangnam Style, and the Fox song, no longer belongs on a Top 40 station. It's like playing the Macarena in 1999. Maybe because it's winning, Cumulus is either forcing the station to hold on to the national playlist or the PDs are voluntarily doing it.
 
95.7 The Vibe (Cumulus) has added songs "Errbody but Me" by Tech Nine (a local KC artist), "Cool Girl" by Tove Lo, and a few others that are unique to it's own station. Also, they locally program their nighttimes now with Zach Sang just providing the voice tracking. They also seem to add songs the day they drop anymore, as opposed to waiting months to hear them.
 
tall_guy1 said:
95.7 The Vibe (Cumulus) has added songs "Errbody but Me" by Tech Nine (a local KC artist), "Cool Girl" by Tove Lo, and a few others that are unique to it's own station. Also, they locally program their nighttimes now
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This seems to be keeping with the new Cumulus directive towards more local programming than in the past. The Vibe is losing the Top 40 battle with Mix, so local management is making adjustments to better position themselves against that station and other similar formats in the market.
 
jt99 said:
I personally don't think KRBE is trying to be lean Hot AC anymore, but rather be a straight up mainstream CHR. They sound pretty decent now, but my problem is that they're a conservative mainstream CHR. Houston isn't really a super liberal market like San Francisco or anything, but I don't think Houston is anywhere close to conservative either, and seeing how diverse the market is, I really don't think it makes sense for a CHR to be conservative here. KRBE does beat the other CHR, Hot 95-7 pretty handily in the ratings (4.4 to 3.3), but I still feel like a change from conservative programming to non-conservative programming would give the station even better ratings.
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KRBE certainly wasn't a conservative mainstream CHR in the late 80's or into the 90's and was actually quite the opposite. For that matter, neither was the Houston market during that time-frame.
 
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