My grandparents would've considered all of that "rock n roll". Adults didn't listen to that stuff.
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When did MOR accept "rock and roll"?
- Thread starter installLSC
- Start date
My grandparents would've considered all of that "rock n roll". Adults didn't listen to that stuff.
Sure they did. By around the time of the British Invasion, ratings had demographic data. And the large majority of Top 40 listeners were adults.
michael hagerty
Walk of Fame Participant
I don't know how old your grandparents were. In May of '65, my mom was 43, my dad would have been 47 (he passed away in March of that year from a heart attack---three packs of cigarettes a day from age 15 on may have had something to do with it). They listened (almost exclusively) to KMPC and KMPC played all of those songs. Not in Top 40-style hot rotations (KMPC only played six to eight songs an hour, so repetition wasn't an issue), but they played them.
In truth, they were in the upper end of KMPC's demo, which in those days was 18-49. If you go through the archive of Billboard magazines at David's site, you'll see the discussion beginning in '63 or '64 about how MOR stations were trying to cope with the fact that 30-somethings were leaning more toward the "new sounds" than toward Andy Williams and Jack Jones, and how to deal with that. It was the seeds of the first Adult Contemporary stations, which would pop up in '67 and '68 in some markets.
My parents hated rock and roll/top 40 but were fairly diverse in their music tastes for, I'll say, 25-45 years of age. For example, my Dad liked The Kingston Trio and others from that 'folk' era, Dixieland and Bluegrass (both not what you might call easy listening). My Mom liked some of the lighter Top 40. Both liked the traditional MOR, ie: Andy Williams, Nat King Cole, Jerry Vale, Frank Sinatra, etc. They had many of these albums. It was always Beautiful Music for meals at home.
In radio, they chose a 'younger' skewing MOR that would mix Moon River with currents, in the late 1960s, included Son of A Preacher Man from Dusty Springfield and even things like The Horse from Cliff Noble & Co., among others that to my youthful Top 40 ears sounded off base. I think they liked the station for the personalities as well. I think, living in Kansas City at the time, they preferred WDAF over KMBR but I know my Dad liked Mike Murphy on KMBR. I might be getting KMBR's call wrong. My memory says KMBR was the AM and KMBZ was the sister FM (that my Mom liked). If Beautiful music was on the AM, they would take that option, making it preferred. We didn't have FM in the car until the early 1970s and even then they leaned toward the AM dial for a few years.
I noticed with both parents that they liked some top 40 hits but if they knew it was a top 40 hit, they tended to be a bit negative toward the song. They saw songs that MOR stations played also charting on Top 40 as being a positive influence on a style of music that simply mostly made them 'nervous'. My Dad would likely choose waterboarding over hearing Good Golly Miss Molly/Devil In A Blue Dress by Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels, especially if you put it on repeat and tied him to a chair.
His musical tastes have changed over the decades. When he lived in Nashville, he loved Radio Lightning's acoustic format on "The Phoenix". He now likes the AC side of top 40 of the 1960s and 1970s. He literally freaked out when I knew the songs and told him I was playing most of those songs when they were hits. He had no clue these were top 40 hits from the 1960s and 1970s. By that time he was in the Dallas area and locked in to "Memories" at, was it 96.3 I think as well as Ron Chapman's short run on the frequency. After MOR and Beautiful Music died, my Dad listened to Country, a big fan of Trisha Yearwood and Vince Gill. When I told him the PD at Memories was the former morning man on The Zoo, KZEW (he knew of the station possibly because it was blaring from my room), he said he always thought that station was run by a bunch of hippies not real radio people.
He continues to astound me with things like "You like Bob Seger? I do." I didn't have the heart to play him Ramblin' Gamblin' Man...I know he wouldn't like that one.
In radio, they chose a 'younger' skewing MOR that would mix Moon River with currents, in the late 1960s, included Son of A Preacher Man from Dusty Springfield and even things like The Horse from Cliff Noble & Co., among others that to my youthful Top 40 ears sounded off base. I think they liked the station for the personalities as well. I think, living in Kansas City at the time, they preferred WDAF over KMBR but I know my Dad liked Mike Murphy on KMBR. I might be getting KMBR's call wrong. My memory says KMBR was the AM and KMBZ was the sister FM (that my Mom liked). If Beautiful music was on the AM, they would take that option, making it preferred. We didn't have FM in the car until the early 1970s and even then they leaned toward the AM dial for a few years.
I noticed with both parents that they liked some top 40 hits but if they knew it was a top 40 hit, they tended to be a bit negative toward the song. They saw songs that MOR stations played also charting on Top 40 as being a positive influence on a style of music that simply mostly made them 'nervous'. My Dad would likely choose waterboarding over hearing Good Golly Miss Molly/Devil In A Blue Dress by Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels, especially if you put it on repeat and tied him to a chair.
His musical tastes have changed over the decades. When he lived in Nashville, he loved Radio Lightning's acoustic format on "The Phoenix". He now likes the AC side of top 40 of the 1960s and 1970s. He literally freaked out when I knew the songs and told him I was playing most of those songs when they were hits. He had no clue these were top 40 hits from the 1960s and 1970s. By that time he was in the Dallas area and locked in to "Memories" at, was it 96.3 I think as well as Ron Chapman's short run on the frequency. After MOR and Beautiful Music died, my Dad listened to Country, a big fan of Trisha Yearwood and Vince Gill. When I told him the PD at Memories was the former morning man on The Zoo, KZEW (he knew of the station possibly because it was blaring from my room), he said he always thought that station was run by a bunch of hippies not real radio people.
He continues to astound me with things like "You like Bob Seger? I do." I didn't have the heart to play him Ramblin' Gamblin' Man...I know he wouldn't like that one.
K
K.M. Richards
Guest
Read that link I provided in post #7.
Even the stodgiest of station owners was letting contemporary music "invade" their concept of good music stations by the early- to mid-1970s. In fact, the owner of the station I cited in the linked post was still nervous about the whole thing until he got a letter from a listener singing the praises of Neil Diamond and thanking us for making it possible for her to hear him and Frank Sinatra at the same place on the dial.
Even the stodgiest of station owners was letting contemporary music "invade" their concept of good music stations by the early- to mid-1970s. In fact, the owner of the station I cited in the linked post was still nervous about the whole thing until he got a letter from a listener singing the praises of Neil Diamond and thanking us for making it possible for her to hear him and Frank Sinatra at the same place on the dial.
CTListener
Walk of Fame Participant
WSYR Syracuse was really stodgy well into the '70s. You could really hear the difference between it and "bright" ACs like WHEN and WFBL as late as 1976. I believe the station went talk rather than get with the times.
My grandmother primarily raised me, and she was born in 1900. With my mother having been born when my grandma was 36, it was almost 2 generation gaps if not 3. Though she didn't care for rock and roll at all (more of a Lawrence Welk fan), it was always WOWO on in the house and car when the TV wasn't on. WOWO seemingly played just about all of the top 40. I got my first taste of the Beach Boys, The Crystals (yes I remember "Barbara Ann" and "My Boyfriend's Back" as a couple of the first songs I remember on the radio), Leslie Gore, Jewel Aiken. When the Beatles came along in '64, WOWO played them. I'm sure Grandma was listening more for the personalities, news and information than the music, but even as early as 1963, WOWO was a full-service station playing contemporary music. After briefly turning things down and going more MOR in 1968 (promptly falling to number 2 behind peanut-powered top 40 WLYV), they went more contemporary again and by the late 70s, they were rocking as hard as WMEE or WPTH between personality bits, news and farm reports. I could definitely tell the difference between WOWO and stations like WJR and WLW.
LKellerIII
Walk of Fame Participant
As to the original subject - at least in terms of airplay - maybe my memory is playing tricks, but I seem to recall hearing 'softer' Top 40 songs on KMPC by the late 60s. I would tune in KMPC afternoons to hear Gary Owens. So for example, if you consider Beatles hits - Yesterday would have had a sound consistent with MOR, while most Beatles songs did not. As I recall, it was indeed the Beatles which caused adults over 30 to start thinking differently about rock and roll. Until that time, there was a lot of resistance to rock as "a lot of noise." My mother's favorite DJ was Bob Crane on KNX (pre-Hogan's Heroes), who absolutely detested rock and roll, and was quite vocal about it. I can also remember commentators of the day like Henry Morgan, who liked to comment about how insipid many rock lyrics were. On one Tonight Show appearance, Morgan read the lyrics for Hello/Goodbye, which actually did sound pretty stupid when read aloud without the music.
Interestingly, I've been told that Robert W. Morgan - one of the biggest DJs of the Top 40 era - also took a dim view of most rock music, though he could hardly be vocal about it on KHJ. If you listen to old air checks of his shows, he lets most Top 40 songs pass through with only a song/group ID, but shows his enthusiasm for MOR songs, show-tunes, and artists that made the Boss 30 list. He loved Dionne Warwick and Promise, Promises, for example.
Interestingly, I've been told that Robert W. Morgan - one of the biggest DJs of the Top 40 era - also took a dim view of most rock music, though he could hardly be vocal about it on KHJ. If you listen to old air checks of his shows, he lets most Top 40 songs pass through with only a song/group ID, but shows his enthusiasm for MOR songs, show-tunes, and artists that made the Boss 30 list. He loved Dionne Warwick and Promise, Promises, for example.
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Corky Marlowe
Star Participant
"My grandmother primarily raised me, and she was born in 1900. With my mother having been born when my grandma was 36, it was almost 2 generation gaps if not 3. Though she didn't care for rock and roll at all (more of a Lawrence Welk fan), it was always WOWO on in the house and car when the TV wasn't on. WOWO seemingly played just about all of the top 40. I got my first taste of the Beach Boys, The Crystals (yes I remember "Barbara Ann" and "My Boyfriend's Back" as a couple of the first songs I remember on the radio), Leslie Gore, Jewel Aiken. When the Beatles came along in '64, WOWO played them. I'm sure Grandma was listening more for the personalities, news and information than the music, but even as early as 1963, WOWO was a full-service station playing contemporary music. After briefly turning things down and going more MOR in 1968 (promptly falling to number 2 behind peanut-powered top 40 WLYV), they went more contemporary again and by the late 70s, they were rocking as hard as WMEE or WPTH between personality bits, news and farm reports. I could definitely tell the difference between WOWO and stations like WJR and WLW."
There are some interesting examples of WOWO's MOR drift on historyofwowo.com. One aircheck (since taken down, because the audio quality was pretty bad) of John Cigna from the summer of 1966 talks about a weekly album giveaway for his Saturday night "Lucky Dozen" feature, which was basically a listener takeover hour, and the album was the Stones' "Aftermath". Also, there's a weekly music survey posted from late 1967 where "People Are Strange" by The Doors is in the top 5. Contrast that with an aircheck from their then-afternoon guy, Don Chevillet, in early '68 where he plays a stiff from Sally Field and some other MOR stuff. Looking at the music charts around that time, however, you can see why WOWO would double down on MOR, with #1 songs from Herb Alpert, Paul Mauriat, Bobby Goldsboro, and others...I can remember Ed Ames, Steve & Eydie, and Frankie Laine in heavy rotation around that time.
There are some interesting examples of WOWO's MOR drift on historyofwowo.com. One aircheck (since taken down, because the audio quality was pretty bad) of John Cigna from the summer of 1966 talks about a weekly album giveaway for his Saturday night "Lucky Dozen" feature, which was basically a listener takeover hour, and the album was the Stones' "Aftermath". Also, there's a weekly music survey posted from late 1967 where "People Are Strange" by The Doors is in the top 5. Contrast that with an aircheck from their then-afternoon guy, Don Chevillet, in early '68 where he plays a stiff from Sally Field and some other MOR stuff. Looking at the music charts around that time, however, you can see why WOWO would double down on MOR, with #1 songs from Herb Alpert, Paul Mauriat, Bobby Goldsboro, and others...I can remember Ed Ames, Steve & Eydie, and Frankie Laine in heavy rotation around that time.
michael hagerty
Walk of Fame Participant
Llew:
KMPC actually was dabbling in Top 40 music as early as the late 1950s. There are a couple of 1959 airchecks of Johnny Grant playing singles like Frankie Avalon's "Bobby Sox To Stockings" along with Sinatra and the like. By the early-mid 60s, the Beatles were played ("Yesterday", "Michelle", "I'll Follow The Sun"), and Dick Whittinghill, KMPC's morning man, was the odd man out on the staff for still refusing to play Elvis (Dick banned the Beatles on his show in 1968 after the nude John Lennon/Yoko Ono album cover).
And you're right about Bob Crane. It always struck me as funny...in terms of comedy and pacing, Crane was infinitely hipper than Whittinghill, but his musical tastes were much stodgier. It stuck out like a sore thumb during the year that Crane (having left radio for TV as the star of "Hogan's Heroes" in 1965) was the designated fill-in for Whittinghill on KMPC (1972-73). By that point, Whittinghill was playing Loggins and Messina's "Your Mama Don't Dance", but on fill-in shows, Crane was back to MOR...and it didn't help that his bits were recycled from his 1956-65 KNX shows.
And yes, Morgan loved good music...there's a great October, 1968 aircheck of RWM clearly enjoying Dionne's "Promises, Promises" and saying that if Glen Campbell's "Wichita Lineman" didn't make number one on the KHJ Boss 30 "I'm gonna go to law school and sue somebody!"
There's a well-circulated 1969 aircheck of Charlie Van Dyke on CKLW coming out of a Peter, Paul and Mary song praising a cut from the album called "This House For Sale" that "knocks me out"
I missed your reply in April. I've heard both the Cigna and Chevillet airchecks and definitely, quite a difference.
I think another big jock from back in the day who probably didn't care that much for top 40 was Denver radio legend Chuck Buell. A few months ago on You Tube I was checking out his New years Day 1969 broadcast on Chicago's WLS ( clip is still there but no audio unfortunately..copyright stuff ). Despite being on a big station like WLS the only time Chuck..to me anyway showed any excitement was that live hook up he did to celebrate Denver hitting 1969 thanks to KIMN. He was pretty much on cruise control playing the music. Now some of the Chuck Buell/KIMN stuff I had heard in the past he did showed a little excitement but I got the vibe that it was because he was on the radio in Denver not really so much playing the hits on KIMN. If Chuck was playing polka tunes on a small 200 watt AM station say in Aurora, Colorado ( a Denver suberb ) he would probably be just as happy.
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Lujack liked Country, not the crap he had to play. He could occasionally get vocal about it. It's a myth that all the old jocks "loved the music". A lot of them hated it.
michael hagerty
Walk of Fame Participant
I wouldn't jump to conclusions based on one aircheck. Buell was in afternoon drive at KFRC from 1974-76 and enthusiasm wasn't a problem. Come to think of it, in the 90s, he was in Phoenix at Sunny 97, an oldies station playing the stuff from the 60s and 70s and he was just as enthusiastic there.
michael hagerty
Walk of Fame Participant
Lujack was part of a group of disc jockeys on Tom Snyder's "Tomorrow" show back in the mid-70s. Tom asked him if he liked the records he played and Larry said "Well, I'd rather play Waylon Jennings and Merle Haggard....but there ain't much money in playing Waylon Jennings and Merle Haggard, so I play rock and roll."
The most vocal on-air about it was probably Robert W. Morgan. There is an aircheck out there somewhere (wish I'd made a dub) of Morgan on KHJ in 1969. Unfortunately, it's scoped, so I can't tell you what the song was, but it was loud and harsh (might have been a hitbound that never charted). Morgan grunts a couple of times over the last couple of notes and says "That was......really awful. I'm not gonna play that again. And I'm not gonna tell you what that was so you won't know what I'm not playing. It's 8:06 in the Morgan at KHJ."
He went into a commercial break at that point. Jingle out of the commercial into Andy Williams' "Happy Heart", which Robert W. intros with "Now, this is much more like it! Sing it, Andy!"
CTListener
Walk of Fame Participant
Am I correct to assume that Morgan knew he'd never have to play that song again because it was a stiff and was going to be dropped from the playlist that week anyway?
michael hagerty
Walk of Fame Participant
Probably not. Ron Jacobs didn't consult with his jocks on music decisions. Morgan sounded as though it was the first time he'd had it come up in his show. Hitbounds that didn't make it onto the Boss 30 usually had two or three weeks of play before they were given up on.
CTListener
Walk of Fame Participant
That's how I remember hitbounds being treated on sister station WRKO as well, but I can't recall any of that station's jocks ever badmouthing a record, hit or stiff.
And a lot depended on what Bernie brought home...
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