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Too many commercials!

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V

vchimpanzee

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The iHeart station where I have been listening to Christmas music (I have a second choice as of yesterday) occasionally gets its best 12-plus ratings of the year during this season, even higher than the highest-rated stations get the rest of the year. But are they really getting the full benefit? One of the attractions is how long they play music without commercials, and I have been unlucky enough on several occasions to tune to the station just before the many commercials that are necessary to make it possible to hear music for a long period of time. In the car, this is important because they probably won't get back to music before I arrive home, and I probably won't turn it back on at home. The important question is do the people listening tolerate all those commercials, or more importantly, pay attention? So many people will find something else to listen to. If they are really just keeping the radio on in the background, they might not change but will they hear the commercials?

Most stations I listen to have frequent but short commercial breaks and I stay with the station in many cases.
 
Ah Chimper, you have resurrected a well worn discussion. Those of us outside the industry feel that 5-6 minute commercial blocks are way too long and encourage the listener to hit the pre-set (should they actually have a pre-set). This will not benefit a station not part of the long-commercial block but we all know it won't matter too much should both stations belong to the same ownership. Me? I will not listen to any station with long blocks of ads. Just won't happen. I am not opposed to 1-2 relatively quick commercials between songs but more than that I will fire up my personal library where there are no commercials.

The only medium in which I tolerate long commercials are live sports and sometimes (hello NASCAR) I will record those instead of watching them live because of the number of ads they run. Virtually all other TV watching is time-delayed and sans commercials.
 
TheBigA said:
You're both outside the demo.
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Yes, but I have been this way for many, many years - even when I was well inside the demo. Additionally, there are millions more like me and more all the time. The only thing OTA broadcasters have going for them is that people appear to be tiring of subscription services and are returning to OTA broadcasts. The bad news is this does not necessarily include the youngsters (those inside the demo) - they appear not to be consumers of most broadcast mediums.
 
landtuna said:
Additionally, there are millions more like me and more all the time.
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Really? Do you have actual documented statistics, or just more personal stories about your family and friends? I know they don't add up to millions.
 
TheBigA said:
Really? Do you have actual documented statistics, or just more personal stories about your family and friends? I know they don't add up to millions.
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You don't have to go further than the various news stories on the viewing/listening habits of the younger set to ascertain the issues. And if you don't want to do that just read the comments on this board. The majority of complainers about commercials are negative - TV viewers ignore them, radio listeners hit the pre-set and social media viewers install ad blockers. In fact, it has gotten so prevalent that Yahoo has announced they will restrict email services to those who have ad blockers running. No, I don't have documented statistics but if you ignore the drumbeat you have your blinders securely fastened.

Personally, of my nine-person immediate family only my wife watches much TV but then only if I download the torrent files so she doesn't have to watch commercials. I am the only one who spends much time on the Internet and the number of commercials I see is extremely small. The number of commercials I hear via radio is even less.

Now, you will say that I am out of the demo and consequently the advertisers don't care. I am and they might. But what I do to avoid the intrusive number of commercials is what others are doing as well - millions of us. We didn't used to have the ability to avoid advertising but each round of technology it becomes easier. Only the technically deprived must put up with all that clutter.
 
landtuna said:
You don't have to go further than the various news stories on the viewing/listening habits of the younger set to ascertain the issues.
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I didn't ask for news stories or comments on this board, I asked for actual documented statistics.

The public doesn't want to pay for music or TV. The only other option to that is watching commercials. You and all of your complaining friends are welcome to pay subscription fees for the content you enjoy. Otherwise, take your medicine like a grown up and stop whining.
 
Arbitron released a white paper in 2011, written in conjunction with Media Monitors and Coleman Insights Media Research, on the subject of listener retention during long commercial breaks. I happen to still have a copy on my computer (since I doubt you could find it on the Nielsen website at this point), and here are some salient points which rebut your positions:

If you presume 100% of the audience is present as the first commercial in a break starts playing ... 99% will still be there at the beginning of the second minute of advertising. 96% are there for minute #3, and 92% one minute later. It is not until a break goes into a fifth minute that the percentage drops below 90% (to 87%), and 85% of that original audience will still be listening during a break that lasts six minutes or more.

That averages to 93% retention of audience through commercial breaks.

Demographically, the percentage of listeners that remain all the way through a break are:
12-17: 90%
18-34: 89%
25-54: 92%
35-64: 93%

For non-music stations, regardless of demographic, that number is consistently above 95%.

The analysis covered nearly 18 million commercial breaks, with a total of close to 62 million minutes of advertising content, over a 12-month period on 866 stations in 48 markets, using PPM data.

These are the type of documented statistics which discredit anecdotal reports of "my family and friends". Worse yet (for the two of you), the entire industry has read the report and know they don't need to change the long commercial breaks. In other words, this whole thread is worthless because nothing is going to change.

You're welcome, A.
 
In researching a certain small market, pretty much across the board, the complaint was not so much the commercials but specifically when the music stopped it took too long before it started again. I cannot say if more breaks of shorter duration was better. I certainly got the impression that 5 minutes of network news was seen about as negatively as 5 sixties back to back. We're talking a small market of 40,000+ and talking with 20 to 50 year olds about evenly split male and female. Ironically, women are less negative than men about how long the break is. I was more concerned about locally popular stations and 'how they could be better' in the mind person asked. It's sure not major market auditorium research.

High energy styled spots (ie: car dealers and such) seemed to be the most disliked.
 
If the complainers can come up with a better way of paying for the content they enjoy other than subscription or advertising, I'm open to hear it. But if the option is advertising, you don't get to set the number of spots. The number is set by whatever it costs to pay for your free content. And that cost increases every day. Musicians, songwriters, record labels, and a lot of other people want more money for what they do, and they're willing to going to court or Congress to get what they want. Get ready for more advertising at Spotify and Pandora. It'll be coming next year.
 
They may complain, but the research says they stay tuned in anyway. See above.
 
TheBigA said:
I didn't ask for news stories or comments on this board, I asked for actual documented statistics.

The public doesn't want to pay for music or TV. The only other option to that is watching commercials. You and all of your complaining friends are welcome to pay subscription fees for the content you enjoy. Otherwise, take your medicine like a grown up and stop whining.
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I don't remember whining one little bit. I object to big commercial blocks and don't care to watch/listen to them - so I don't. That is not a whine.

I used to pay for cable....until it carried a commercial load equivalent to the OTA broadcasters and program content wasn't worth the cost. So I cancelled. That is also not a whine.

My friends don't complain. They merely take steps to remove the offensive content from their presence. I am probably the only person I know who spends time discussing these issues. Most other people just watch online.

So, even if I was inside the demo I wouldn't count. Neither radio nor TV miss me. And I don't miss their commercials. Turnabout is fair play.
 
TheBigA said:
Get ready for more advertising at Spotify and Pandora. It'll be coming next year.
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I could care less. Don't use either service.

Years ago I tried subscribing for content. Then they began showing commercials. Then they increased prices...again and again. Then their programming became junk - with the sole exception of TCM. Virtually none of the original non-premium cable services are in the same content business they were 25 years ago. They changed their product, increased their prices and blistered me with commercials. I decided to go elsewhere. Now many other people are doing it too. So don't use the old "content providers need to get paid for their work" argument with me. They had it once and blew it. They are a collective bunch of idiots.
 
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K.M. Richards said:
Arbitron released a white paper in 2011, written in conjunction with Media Monitors and Coleman Insights Media Research, on the subject of listener retention during long commercial breaks.
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I will agree that those statistics are probably accurate for non-music stations as the listener is actively involved in the content which probably cannot be found by pressing a pre-set. However, I highly doubt it is accurate for music stations, particularly in large markets with more than one station of a given format. In all my years of listening when others are present I have never known anyone who would voluntarily listen to a long commercial block when they had the option to go to another like format. In fact, major arguments have ensued when the teens in the car kept hitting the pre-set when a commercial block came on. As the surveys were done by industry aligned companies I further distrust those findings.

We've been told that most listening occurs at home or at work. In both those locations it is not likely the listener would hit the pre-set because it is just background noise anyway. When I had my desktop radio in my cube I would turn it on in the AM and turn it off when I went home and would't otherwise touch it because it just didn't matter. It was background noise and I paid attention only when I wasn't in a meeting, on the phone or talking with an associate. The vast majority of time I was either concentrating on work at hand or busy with someone so the radio was playing to nobody. Out of a 8-10 hour day I might actually hear 30 minutes worth.

The other thing to consider is that extra long commercial blocks haven't been with us forever. The only ones I remember from my youth were the on-site live broadcasts where the DJ went on and on about the great values at Uncle Stan's Used Car Lot or those that people like Godfrey used to do - spending several minutes talking about Lipton Tea. Those don't air any longer and instead we have 5-6-7 spots in a row. And I am not going to get into the old discussion we've had about the listener just 'tuning out" and being unable to remember the commercials just played because they are all run together.
 
b-turner said:
High energy styled spots (ie: car dealers and such) seemed to be the most disliked.
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About the only thing that I dislike more than "high energy" spots is the DJ talking over the beginning or ending of a song. Fortunately, today there are enough alternate choices that I needn't put up with either any longer.
 
landtuna said:
However, I highly doubt it is accurate for music stations, particularly in large markets with more than one station of a given format.
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As stated, it was created using PPM data in 48 markets, so it was simple number crunching and not subject to the usual margin of error that would have existed if it were a survey (please note, that alone nullifies your whole first paragraph's arguments, as you made the false assumption that this was a survey). Since PPM was only in the largest markets when this study was released, there were choices available to the listeners. They simply chose not to utilize them.

You are still trying to rebut hard facts with anecdotal replies:


In all my years of listening when others are present I have never known anyone ...

... major arguments have ensued when the teens in the car kept hitting the pre-set ...

The majority of complainers about commercials are negative ...

Those of us outside the industry feel that 5-6 minute commercial blocks are way too long ...

... there are millions more like me and more all the time.

... millions of us.
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Please understand, that isn't changing anyone's opinion. All it does is give a warm fuzzy feeling to those who already agree with you ... and they aren't right either.
 
landtuna said:
I will agree that those statistics are probably accurate for non-music stations as the listener is actively involved in the content which probably cannot be found by pressing a pre-set.
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The study, as KM said, consisted of analyzing minute by minute listening data in the PPM markets. While it was done 4 years ago, that was when the PPM was already currency in all 48 markets that use that methodology. And since most listening is to music stations in the demos that matter, we can say that any effect of talk (sports, news or talk) on the outcome is minimal. In fact, talkers have another problem which is running about 30% more commercials than music stations... so they have long breaks and more of them.

However, I highly doubt it is accurate for music stations, particularly in large markets with more than one station of a given format.
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It is very accurate for music stations. Those of us who subscribe to Nielsen and MediaMonitors have the ability to replicate the study every day, week and month and see when tune outs occur. Hint: it's when we play a stiff, not when we run commercials.

However, we do find that there is more cumulative attrition when there are more stopsets with fewer commercials than when most spots are put in just two stops per hour. Most attrition occurs in the first minute or two, so more is worse.

In all my years of listening when others are present I have never known anyone who would voluntarily listen to a long commercial block when they had the option to go to another like format.
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Generally, button pushing takes place in the car. At home and at work, where two-thirds of listening happens, it is generally set and forget.

In fact, major arguments have ensued when the teens in the car kept hitting the pre-set when a commercial block came on.
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Radio is not programmed for teens, so that point is irrelevant. Among adults, the greater button pushing happens with bad songs or new songs or songs that have burnt out.

As the surveys were done by industry aligned companies I further distrust those findings.
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KM already said it: it wasn't a survey. It was a tabulation of PPM listening data compared with the MediaMonitors times for stopsets. There was no analysis at all, in fact.

The other thing to consider is that extra long commercial blocks haven't been with us forever. The only ones I remember from my youth were the on-site live broadcasts where the DJ went on and on about the great values at Uncle Stan's Used Car Lot or those that people like Godfrey used to do - spending several minutes talking about Lipton Tea. Those don't air any longer and instead we have 5-6-7 spots in a row. And I am not going to get into the old discussion we've had about the listener just 'tuning out" and being unable to remember the commercials just played because they are all run together.
Click to expand...

Music stations went to fewer but longer stops several decades ago to reduce the number of interruptions and to allow "more music" positions.

The more frequent and shorter stops came from the old 50's and 60's Top 40 era and were based on Hooper and Pulse measurement techniques. As folks started to figure out how to game Arbitron, we got fewer stops with more spots in them.
 
DavidEduardo said:


The study, as KM said, consisted of analyzing minute by minute listening data in the PPM markets.
Click to expand...


That should read "tabulation of minute by minute...." as there was really no analysis involved... just data crunching.
 
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