Worst Stations and Markets for Local TV

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

landtuna said:

bpatrick said:

I also thought KTVK was the one affiliate-turned-independent that still leads its market.

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Others may be able to remember specific numbers but even when KTVK was an ABC affiliate it didn't lead the Phoenix market although it did have respectable numbers.

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KTVK was the leading station in Phoenix for a while during their later years as an ABC affiliate, battling it out with then-CBS KTSP (now FOX O&O KSAZ). Right now, in news ratings, KTVK is number three, behind KPNX (NBC, the only station that did not change affiliations during the New World shakeup) and KSAZ, with KNXV (ABC) slowly catching up to them. As hard as they've tried (and I give them much credit), KPHO has never really been a news competitor, although they did show a slight spike up around 2002-2003.

landtuna said:

I believe the most successful independent was KPHO (who became a CBS affiliate at the same time KTVK went indie).

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KTVK was never a "traditional" independent station, as they at one time had the most popular syndicated shows usually reserved for "Big Three" affiliates (they lost "Wheel of Fortune" and "Jeopardy!" a few years back to KNXV). This gave them affiliate-sized ratings in certain dayparts. On the other hand, KPHO was a traditional independent fueled by reruns, cartoons, and old movies. They were more full-service from the '60s up until the early '80s, but never had affiliate-sized ratings as an independent.

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

Buffalo's WKBW-TV...when Irv Weinstein retired and they dropped "Eyewitness News" ( KB has since brought that name back though)..it wasn't very long before WIVB took over the Buffalo TV market.

Washington DC's WUSA...a bunch of their faces like Doug Hill and Gordon Peterson made the switch to WJLA and WUSA lost a lot of viewers and they have yet to recover.

Baltimore's WBFF-TV, Washington's WTTG and WDCA....back in the 70s and 80s all of them were a pretty good indies but FOX had changed a lot of that. Plus in the case of WBFF...they were taken of many of cable systems in the 90s thanks to WTTG which didn't help.

Norfolk's WTKR..I agree that they had fallen from grace too..add the fact that in the 90s WTKR fired some of their more popular people. They are still people in that market who to this day won't forgive WTKR from firing weatherguy Dr. Duane Harding. Pus one can add the death of WTKR's long time anchor Ed Hughes to their downfall as well even though the latter, of course wasn't the fault of WTKR.

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

Another vote for KTLA. I used to make it a point to watch News at 10 nightly via Dish Network for years because it was the newscast was that good. You could tell it was slipping during Hal Fishman's last days, but after he died so did KTLA News at te....Prime News. I hardly watch it anymore.

Here is a montage of KTLA news open. My favorite is the third open with George Putnam, now that's a news open!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPdDwozZOQ

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

Up here in Bellingham, WA. It's KVOS-TV 12. It signed on in 1952, a glorious dream of a small market TV station being able to hold it's own and for nearly 30 years, it did just that.

But KVOS's woes play out like a TV station nightmare over the last three decades. They had a monster signal that covered the Puget Sound from Vancouver, BC to Seattle and were a proud CBS affiliate. It had a local newsroom, a full staff and several locally produced programs.

Then came the early '80s, when Seattle CBS affiliate KIRO-TV demanded KVOS drop most CBS prime time programming. KVOS wasn't able to fight this and slowly, KVOS became an independent. KVOS tried affiliating with the Canadian CityTV network and for a while carried some of their programming. But when Vancouver got a CityTV affiliate, there went that.

Then came the US cable TV "market exclusive" rules, forcing KVOS, which carries almost ALL syndicated daytime programming carried on other independent stations in Seattle, off most Puget Sound cable grids. Then more TV stations signed on in Vancouver and Victoria, forcing KVOS to move further down their dials.

KVOS's independent programming today is pretty much whatever it could get. It's b-rated movies, b-rated reruns, syndicated day talk and infomercials

Now KVOS has been sold to a broadcaster that specializes in Spanish TV channels and it has a plan to move it's COL and transmitter to Granite Falls, WA.

KVOS more than anything seemed to be a chronic victim of circumstance, with forces outside of their control forcing it under. It's a sad sight. But I've actually seen photos of TV stations buildings completely abandoned for over 20 years, so there's worse. KVOS somehow always held on. I never understood how, but Channel 12 is a survivor.....

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

I remember in my early teens watching independant station WKTR-TV Channel 16(now WPTD Dayton's PBS) then located in Kettering. Lots of good stuff back in 1967...vintage movies from the 30s and 40s every evening called "Double Feature Theater" which became an instant hit with my parents..and I also remember to this day a sweet young girl roughly my age (I was thirteen back then) named Kim Christy who introduced Three Stooges two-reelers and Batfink cartoons as the late afternoon half-hour slot titled "Kim's Kartoon Kapers." Always cheerful,upbeat and adorable....and I must admit ...I had a little bit of crush on her back then. She was repalced one year later by Barry Lillis (previously an announcer with Lima's WIMA-TV now WLIO) who played a country bumpkin character named "Barry Patch"...hence the show retitled as "Barry's Kartoon Kapers." Also there was live Big Time Wrestling (packaged under the alternate title "Arena Wrestling" but was aired live in the WKTR studio)with Wild Bull Curry,Thunderbolt Patterson,California Hell's Angels,Haystacks Calhoun ,Rocky Johnson & Ben Justice and "The (original...the one you loved to hate ) Sheik."

WKTR was a great station in my opinion at that time since it was a trailblazer before WRGT came on the air years later...but it went broke in 1970 and went silent. It tried to make a comeback the following year but it just wasn't the same. It went silent again but returned to the air in 1972 as WOET..which later became WPTD to this day.

Always wondered if Vic Cassano was the sole owner (licensee name: Kitty Hawk Television) of if he had several buisness partners in this now long defunct station...since the building was also the corporate headquarters of the Cassano pizza chain (if I am not mistaken here) as it was located on East Stroop Rd in Kettering.

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

Scott Fybush said:

To clarify a couple of points -

News 10 Now, while based in Syracuse, does maintain a small newsroom with a handful of one-man-band reporter/videographers in Binghamton. At this point, it's probably the second-largest newsroom in town, and has enough visibility that it was to News 10 that Jiverly Wong addressed the letter he sent before the shooting.

The News 10 product actually comes from all over the state these days - the local reporters are in Binghamton, the weather hub is in Syracuse (along with most of the channel's reporters) and the anchors are in Albany.

As for WBNG, it hasn't been on Front Street for many years. It moved to much nicer digs way up on a hill in Johnson City around 1990, so it was no better situated to get to the scene of the crime than WIVT (up on Ingraham Hill at the transmitter site, or are all the reporters at Oakdale Mall now?) or WICZ (out on Vestal Parkway) or News 10 (also out on Vestal Parkway).

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Scott..Just as a point of reference, FOX News was crediting WSYR-Syracuse for their video coverage in Bingo. I did see "News-10" being used on CNN, and I too, thought it was
W-10 from Albany. But no matter..it was a pretty sad commentary on the state of Binghamton television news, that none of the Binghamton network affiliates were able to be the main conduit during this major Binghamton news story. While this is a TV thread, huge kudos to WNBF Radio's news director Bob Joseph who was talking on virtually every major news outlet in the US, as well as anchoring coverage on 1290. Bernie would be proud!! And at least with Bob on the air, somebody was able to correctly pronounce "Binghamton".

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

My vote goes to WVTM-13 (NBC) in Birmingham. Channel 13 was rarely the dominant news station in the market; that distinction went to WBRC-6 (ABC from '61-'96, now Fox). However, Channel 13 always put out a solid news product and was always no worse than the second rated newscast in town...until the station became an NBC O & O in '96. Since then, the quality of the newscast has continued to decline, with no end in sight. Channel 13's problems are at least in part to a endless change of anchors on their 5, 6 and 10 newscasts. First, market newcomer ABC 33/40 (the combination of WCFT in Tuscaloosa and WJSU in Anniston) surpassed Channel 13, aided in no small part by its talent raid of WBRC, hiring station veterans Brenda Ladun, Linda Mays, James Spann and Mike Raita. 33/40 helped their morning newscasts when they hired former Channel 13 talents Pam Huff and Tracy Haines.

The ultimate humiliation for Channel 13 occurred when longtime market laughingstock WIAT-42 (CBS) passes Channel 13. What once was the worst newscast for a mid-majpr market is now a crisp, concise and informative production. Channel 42's success is at least somewhat attributable to hiring market veterans Cynthia Gould (formerly of WBRC), Mark Prater (formerly of WBRC and ABC 33/40), David Neal (late of WBRC) and Jim Dunaway, formerly of Channel 13.

IMHO, the ultimate sign that Channel 13 is no longer a "major" station in the market is that at 12 noon every day they air "The 700 Club". Enough said.

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

Bongwater said:

Up here in Bellingham, WA. It's KVOS-TV 12.

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100 miles to the south, in Tacoma, let's add KSTW channel 11 to the list of fallen stations. Once a leading indepedent station viewed all over Washington state, it is now another weak CW affiliate.

Unfortunately, KSTW is far from alone -- others that have been mentioned in this thread that have suffered a similar fate include WUAB in Lorain (Cleveland), OH; and WKBD in Detroit, MI. Although not mentioned here, I'd add stations like KBHK channel 44 in SF and WTOG (another channel 44) in Tampa as once good independent stations that are now run of the mill CW affiliates. Even worse are the independents that have become MNTV affiliates, although I can't think of many of those stations that have much heritage anyway, offhand.

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

TexasTom said:

Even worse are the independents that have become MNTV affiliates, although I can't think of many of those stations that have much heritage anyway, offhand.

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Four letters -- WWOR. While it was generally lackluster as compared to WNEW/WNYW and WPIX, it did have some qualities, especially Joe Franklin. WWOR viewers also saw Morton Downey Jr., before the rest of the nation. Of course, WWOR was a nationwide superstation, which practically ended at the end of 1996, almost two years after the start of UPN. Today, WWOR is a lowly MNTV affiliate and a "puppet" of WNYW -- it's just as run of the mill as the rest.

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

azumanga said:

Four letters -- WWOR. While it was generally lackluster as compared to WNEW/WNYW and WPIX, it did have some qualities, especially Joe Franklin. WWOR viewers also saw Morton Downey Jr., before the rest of the nation. Of course, WWOR was a nationwide superstation, which practically ended at the end of 1996, almost two years after the start of UPN. Today, WWOR is a lowly MNTV affiliate and a "puppet" of WNYW -- it's just as run of the mill as the rest.

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So, for that matter, has WNYW itself descended into such pits. Back when it was Metromedia-owned indie WNEW-TV, its newscasts were well-known for such figures as anchors Bill Jorgensen, John Roland and Bill McCreary, arts critic Stewart Klein, and "The Amazin'" Bill Mazer, and despite low budgets compared to the network O&O's, the presence of Messrs. Klein and Mazer added touches of literacy and class. And today? Their newscasts have pretty much become "all American Idol, all the time." And that's not counting the endless list of kids' show personalities WNEW had in their heyday, including Sandy Becker, Sonny Fox, Chuck McCann, Soupy Sales, and Bob McAllister. Or such golden voices as Tom "Metromedia Man" Gregory, Ed Ladd, Fred Scott and Lou "The Creep" Steele.

On top of that, you've got WWOR'ers on WNYW and vice versa today (such as Harry Martin anchoring WNYW's 6 P.M. and WWOR's 10 P.M. newscasts). That would've never happened when Channel 9 was owned by RKO (though its budgets seemed at times to rival those of lowly public-access channels) and its chief news anchor was Tom Dunn. WOR-TV's announcing staff likewise seemed to rise above the cheapo operation accorded it by the notoriously penny-pinching RKO, with one in particular, Phil Tonken, particularly known for nationally-run ads on TV and radio from the 1960's to the early '80's; and a few others who were around for years, including Ted Mallie, Russ Dunbar, Frank McCarthy, Bob Jordan, and Jesse Elin Browne.

WPIX is practically the only one of the three ex-indies to maintain some semblance of acknowledgment of its long history and heritage, though it too is largely a shadow of its former self. Still, the other two have fallen worse.

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

I would add WBBJ-TV of Jackson, TN, to this list, except that they were never all that great, anyway! :

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

TexasTom said:

Bongwater said:

Up here in Bellingham, WA. It's KVOS-TV 12.

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100 miles to the south, in Tacoma, let's add KSTW channel 11 to the list of fallen stations. Once a leading indepedent station viewed all over Washington state, it is now another weak CW affiliate.

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Have to agree with KSTW. Wow, it has really fallen. They used to have the only 10pm newscast in the market back in the 70's. A bit of trivia: my Grandmother was on the intro to the 10 o'clock News for several years in the early 80's.

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

wbhist said:

azumanga said:

Four letters -- WWOR. While it was generally lackluster as compared to WNEW/WNYW and WPIX, it did have some qualities, especially Joe Franklin. WWOR viewers also saw Morton Downey Jr., before the rest of the nation. Of course, WWOR was a nationwide superstation, which practically ended at the end of 1996, almost two years after the start of UPN. Today, WWOR is a lowly MNTV affiliate and a "puppet" of WNYW -- it's just as run of the mill as the rest.

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So, for that matter, has WNYW itself descended into such pits. Back when it was Metromedia-owned indie WNEW-TV, its newscasts were well-known for such figures as anchors Bill Jorgensen, John Roland and Bill McCreary, arts critic Stewart Klein, and "The Amazin'" Bill Mazer, and despite low budgets compared to the network O&O's, the presence of Messrs. Klein and Mazer added touches of literacy and class. And today? Their newscasts have pretty much become "all American Idol, all the time." And that's not counting the endless list of kids' show personalities WNEW had in their heyday, including Sandy Becker, Sonny Fox, Chuck McCann, Soupy Sales, and Bob McAllister. Or such golden voices as Tom "Metromedia Man" Gregory, Ed Ladd, Fred Scott and Lou "The Creep" Steele.

On top of that, you've got WWOR'ers on WNYW and vice versa today (such as Harry Martin anchoring WNYW's 6 P.M. and WWOR's 10 P.M. newscasts). That would've never happened when Channel 9 was owned by RKO (though its budgets seemed at times to rival those of lowly public-access channels) and its chief news anchor was Tom Dunn. WOR-TV's announcing staff likewise seemed to rise above the cheapo operation accorded it by the notoriously penny-pinching RKO, with one in particular, Phil Tonken, particularly known for nationally-run ads on TV and radio from the 1960's to the early '80's; and a few others who were around for years, including Ted Mallie, Russ Dunbar, Frank McCarthy, Bob Jordan, and Jesse Elin Browne.

WPIX is practically the only one of the three ex-indies to maintain some semblance of acknowledgment of its long history and heritage, though it too is largely a shadow of its former self. Still, the other two have fallen worse.

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Agreed about WPIX. At least they still have some traditions (the Yule Long/airing of March of the Wooden Soldiers on Christmas Day, the Honeymooners marathon on New Year's Day, the Magic Garden reunion a few years back).

As for the big three stations in New York, WNBC has fallen the most. I usually thought they ran the best newscasts in New York, but thanks to NBC being on a very tight budget for the past few years, they've gotten rid of so many talented newspeople (especially over the past few months) while replacing them with the vastly inexperienced. The pending departure of longtime sportscaster Len Berman might be the last straw. I read elsewhere that their ratings have dropped 60% in the past decade, and although part of this can be attributed to the network's fortunes, they also made some horrible late afternoon scheduling decisions which have cost them dearly (I mean really, Extra at 5:30?).

In the past week or two, Len put it best when he said something to the tune of "It will be a cold day in hell before WNBC ever beats WABC in the ratings again."

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

WTRF-TV in Wheeling, West Virginia OWNED their market for many years, then allowed perennial also-ran WSTV (now WTOV) in Steubenville, Ohio to eclipse them and never look back. So many talented people, including Bob Orr on CBS, and Dean and Faith Daniels, who went to New York city trained there. Mark Davis was the quintessential ND, and was an icon here for decades. There are some good people still there, but they are part of a statewide group of stations, each of which is controlled out of Charleston, West Virginia.

WTRF has CBS, their only saving grace. They have ceded everything from "Jamboree in The Hills," the 'Super Bowl of Country Music,' to ECHL semipro hockey (the Wheeling Nailers) and others to a city that has a Wheeling bureau, but is headquartered quite a few miles north (at least 30). It proves the old adage true yet again: "Fail to plan, plan to fail."

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

liradioisbad said:

As for the big three stations in New York, WNBC has fallen the most. I usually thought they ran the best newscasts in New York, but thanks to NBC being on a very tight budget for the past few years, they've gotten rid of so many talented newspeople (especially over the past few months) while replacing them with the vastly inexperienced. The pending departure of longtime sportscaster Len Berman might be the last straw. I read elsewhere that their ratings have dropped 60% in the past decade, and although part of this can be attributed to the network's fortunes, they also made some horrible late afternoon scheduling decisions which have cost them dearly (I mean really, Extra at 5:30?).

In the past week or two, Len put it best when he said something to the tune of "It will be a cold day in hell before WNBC ever beats WABC in the ratings again."

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It does seem that WNBC is on track to rival the super-abysmal ratings performance they accomplished in 1972, when the ratings for their 6 P.M. newscast were so low that in lieu of number figures, there was an asterisk. But I have to agree with you about this once-great station falling the most among the New York network O&O's. At least during their early 1970's low point, WNBC had such voices as Howard Reig, Don Pardo, Vic Roby, Roger Tuttle, Bill Rippe, Wayne Howell, Mel Brandt, Bill McCord, Dick Dudley, John Clarke, Bill Hanrahan, Bill Wendell, Arthur Gary, Jerry Damon, Ben Grauer, Jack Costello and Radcliffe Hall among their announcing ranks (while Fred Facey, at the time, did mostly radio announcing and some TV PSA's, a decade before he became one of the most prominent WNBC/NBC V/O's). Not this time out.

B.T.W., how's Gabe Pressman doing these days? :-\

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

wbhist said:

liradioisbad said:

As for the big three stations in New York, WNBC has fallen the most. I usually thought they ran the best newscasts in New York, but thanks to NBC being on a very tight budget for the past few years, they've gotten rid of so many talented newspeople (especially over the past few months) while replacing them with the vastly inexperienced. The pending departure of longtime sportscaster Len Berman might be the last straw. I read elsewhere that their ratings have dropped 60% in the past decade, and although part of this can be attributed to the network's fortunes, they also made some horrible late afternoon scheduling decisions which have cost them dearly (I mean really, Extra at 5:30?).

In the past week or two, Len put it best when he said something to the tune of "It will be a cold day in hell before WNBC ever beats WABC in the ratings again."

Click to expand...

It does seem that WNBC is on track to rival the super-abysmal ratings performance they accomplished in 1972, when the ratings for their 6 P.M. newscast were so low that in lieu of number figures, there was an asterisk. But I have to agree with you about this once-great station falling the most among the New York network O&O's. At least during their early 1970's low point, WNBC had such voices as Howard Reig, Don Pardo, Vic Roby, Roger Tuttle, Bill Rippe, Wayne Howell, Mel Brandt, Bill McCord, Dick Dudley, John Clarke, Bill Hanrahan, Bill Wendell, Arthur Gary, Jerry Damon, Ben Grauer, Jack Costello and Radcliffe Hall among their announcing ranks (while Fred Facey, at the time, did mostly radio announcing and some TV PSA's, a decade before he became one of the most prominent WNBC/NBC V/O's). Not this time out.

B.T.W., how's Gabe Pressman doing these days? :-\

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This recently showed up on the tubes of the you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZZi2aDCDJI

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

firepoint525 said:

I would add WBBJ-TV of Jackson, TN, to this list, except that they were never all that great, anyway! :

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They're still nothing fancy, but I've thought that WBBJ is at least some better than they used to be. At least their news and ad graphics don't look like they came from a Commodore 64 any more. :

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

formeraa said:

Have to agree with KSTW. Wow, it has really fallen. They used to have the only 10pm newscast in the market back in the 70's. A bit of trivia: my Grandmother was on the intro to the 10 o'clock News for several years in the early 80's.

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In fairness, I'll note that the one reason why KSTW had the only 10 PM newscast in the market back in the seventies was because they were the only independent station in the market for an almost six year period between December 12, 1974 and November 4, 1980.

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

Stanislav said:

BaltimoreJack said:

There was no bigger demonstration of how this station had fallen apart than during the recent massacre at the American Civic Association in Binghamton. The nation was watching this horror unfold and all the major nets and cable news outfits were broadcasting live video from Binghamton, NY. But..the live video was not coming from WBNG-TV..or any other Binghamton TV station..it was coming from TV stations in Syracuse and Albany. Cities that are somewhere between 1 hour and 3 hours away from Binghamton. Why? When WBNG-TV's Sat Truck broke down, owner Granite saw no reason to "waste" money on getting it fixed. Past WBNG engineers & news directors would have found a way to get it done just like MacGyver. The current ownership just shrugs..oh well..too bad.

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You know, I wondered about that while watching the coverage. I kept seeing a courtesy bug for the source video reading "News 10." I wondered if that might have been some local cable-only news channel -- now that I've read your post, it hit me -- that was WTEN in Albany!

Maybe the WBNG owners had the attitude that "this is a quiet town; nothing ever happens here anyway, so why invest in fixing the live truck?" Guess again...

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As has been mentioned already, it wasn't WTEN. It was News 10 Now, Time Warner's cable-only news channel (read: NY1 clone) in Syracuse.

As far as the topic goes, it's safe to say that most stations we grew up with (or those legends we either only heard about or briefly caught a glimpse of) aren't what they were. For this, we can all give a big "Thank you" to the following:

The Big Three Networks (ABC, CBS, NBC): for squeezing more time and more money from their affiliates for mostly bad programming;
Fox Broadcasting Company, WB Television Network, UPN: for turning your favorite independent station (or heritage Big Three affiliate) into a cesspool of more poor programming;
CW Television Network, My Network TV, Pax/ i / ION Television: for being here when we really don't need them;
Any cable channel you can think of: for taking the good network reruns and movies for themselves, and for producing quality (scripted, not reality) programming that's better than anything on over-the-air network television;
Each and every syndication producer: for bringing us crap talk shows, redundant court shows, and insipid prime access fluff;
Each and every broadcast ownership group: for cutting back on newscasts and important local programming in favor of said syndicated product and the evil informercials.

And last, but certainly not least of all...
Federal Communications Commission: for allowing all of this to happen

Re: ONCE GREAT STATIONS THAT HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE

As a kid, I wasn't outside getting into trouble, I was one that would always be home watching the news (either on CNN or MSNBC ... those were my only two options back then) or watching local news. I was always big on local news. I would wake up at 4:45AM every school day to watch the news from 5AM until 6:30AM.

The channel that I use to watch from when I was a tot until I moved away was WTVR Channel 6 Richmond. When I go back home now, it doesn't seem the same. It seems weak. I remember back in my teenage years, how I thought WTVR was powerful and strong, and I could trust what they were telling me. Now adays, when I watch WTVR it seems like all the rest. I dunno, it just feels like a station that was once great, is now like the rest.

Another channel, that I have heard about, and have witness some of "the falling" is/was: WYOU Channel 22 in Scranton. Recently they got rid of their newscast laying off 14 people. WYOU use to be strong, but when Nexstar/Mission took over, it fell.