You prove my point of how anemic rock has become in the last 20 years. It really makes it tough for a station to attract a large audience with only current rock music. Stone Temple Pilots? Alice in Chains?
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the Alternative genre seems to forget its heritage
- Thread starter gamefreak
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You prove my point of how anemic rock has become in the last 20 years. It really makes it tough for a station to attract a large audience with only current rock music. Stone Temple Pilots? Alice in Chains?
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Sirius XM makes a lot of money by pimping out channels to musical acts and their labels. It's telling that the lone contemporary artist with a permanent "legal payola" channel is Pitbull, and he's not rock or rock-influenced. The others? The Beatles, The Grateful Dead, Bruce Springsteen, Jimmy Buffett, and Pearl Jam. Country acts with channels are Garth Brooks and Kenny Chesney -- only Chesney is still charting regularly, but even he's been around since the mid-'90s. The two currently running limited-time bought-and-paid-for artist channels are devoted to dinosaur acts Fleetwood Mac and the Beach Boys -- with young whippersnappers U2 set to replace the Mac next month! Rock has had a nice, long run, but it certainly appears to be in decline, especially among millennials.
Millennials have a great appreciation for classic rock, but when it comes to their choice for current music, it's usually Post Malone.
There is some very good new rock out there. I hear it on some of the rock stations. But most rock stations anymore are actually classic rock stations that include a bit of current rock music. Even if they are labelled as active rock, their percentage of classic and older content seems to be quite high. In the 80's and 90's, it wasn't so.
Whether that is a result of research, or lack of promotion, or lack of any top drawing new acts (since 2005 I think most new rock acts only play festivals or smaller venues -- they don't even fill 3000 seat theatres anymore, much less stadiums), I don't know.
I think what we're talking about is there are no new iconic rock artists -- no one with the impact of the Beatles, Elvis, or Nirvana -- artists that represent genres because those genres ensued rapidly after those artists hit. Springsteen is mentioned here but didn't create a genre or represent a generation as Nirvana or the Beatles. The new generation is post-rock. We just have to deal with that.
Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift are the new Beatles, the new Elvis, the new Nirvana. They represent the post 9-11 generations. And they aren't rock, that's for sure -- even if both of them do eventually make it into the Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame.
Whether that is a result of research, or lack of promotion, or lack of any top drawing new acts (since 2005 I think most new rock acts only play festivals or smaller venues -- they don't even fill 3000 seat theatres anymore, much less stadiums), I don't know.
I think what we're talking about is there are no new iconic rock artists -- no one with the impact of the Beatles, Elvis, or Nirvana -- artists that represent genres because those genres ensued rapidly after those artists hit. Springsteen is mentioned here but didn't create a genre or represent a generation as Nirvana or the Beatles. The new generation is post-rock. We just have to deal with that.
Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift are the new Beatles, the new Elvis, the new Nirvana. They represent the post 9-11 generations. And they aren't rock, that's for sure -- even if both of them do eventually make it into the Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame.
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Thankfully, Bieber debuted in 2009, Swift in 2006, so both are a long way from even qualifying for consideration. I can't see Bieber ever getting in, but Swift is showing impressive staying power and will definitely contend, especially if her work continues its evolution from the adolescent relationship themes that served her so well as a teenager.
More interesting will be the HOF fate of her nemesis, Kanye West -- he's not rock and roll (though that looks like it will scarcely matter in 10-15 years; the HOF itself could well have a new name by then -- Popular Music Hall of Fame, anyone?), and his social and political views clash with conventional show-biz-celeb thinking. Swift, whom I suspect is a closeted conservative, keeps her mouth shut and twitter feed silent on just about all controversial issues.
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Good observation. Those smaller venues now get rap and even EDM acts, along with the usual nostalgia package tours of '70s and '80s pop/rock stars. The big buildings and stadiums are increasingly taken up with contemporary country, whose performers have the arena-rock attitude and savvy that Garth Brooks brought to country in the early '90s.
Regardless of specifics, Post-Grunge took the world by storm in the Mid-to-late 90's. For instance, Alanis Morissette (Pop Rock, however some may consider her music Post-Grunge) helped completely change the face of the Hot AC format in 1996. Prior to 1996, Hot AC stations really weren't that different than their older AC counterparts. However, Alanis, along with artists like Hootie and the Blowfish finally pushed Hot AC stations to abandon Phil Collins and Celine Dion formula for something new. Which lead to the Post-Grunge crossover-hits of the late 90's and 2000's. Matchbox 20, Third Eye Blind and various other Hot AC staples were first successful on Modern Rock, before crossing over to Hot AC.
By picking the most radio-friendly Post-Grunge, and in some cases Nu-Metal hits off of Modern Rock formats. Hot AC stations became the poster child of cleaned-up butt rock. Staindt, Nickleback, 3 Doors Down and Hinder became some of most popular Adult Top 40 artists of the 2000's. Only by around 2010 did Hot AC finally started removing much of this sludge from their playlist, replacing much of this music with Lady Gaga and Katy Perry. Some Alternative Stations also took this long to finally abandon post-grunge and most harder rock. The 2000's was one of the only times that an Modern Rock station could have a nightly Metallica show, while still calling themselves Alternative.
Now the post-grunge comeback is coming. In fact, I believe Nickleback has already got some airplay on a Classic Hits station were I live, and is a core artist on a a local Mainstream AC. However, the issue with Alternative Classics is having a fine balance. How would a song like "Southside" by Moby blend with a Limp Bizkit song from the same era. Two completely different artists with sometimes completely different fan-bases. This could be done, but there has to be some finesse not to throw off listeners.
By picking the most radio-friendly Post-Grunge, and in some cases Nu-Metal hits off of Modern Rock formats. Hot AC stations became the poster child of cleaned-up butt rock. Staindt, Nickleback, 3 Doors Down and Hinder became some of most popular Adult Top 40 artists of the 2000's. Only by around 2010 did Hot AC finally started removing much of this sludge from their playlist, replacing much of this music with Lady Gaga and Katy Perry. Some Alternative Stations also took this long to finally abandon post-grunge and most harder rock. The 2000's was one of the only times that an Modern Rock station could have a nightly Metallica show, while still calling themselves Alternative.
Now the post-grunge comeback is coming. In fact, I believe Nickleback has already got some airplay on a Classic Hits station were I live, and is a core artist on a a local Mainstream AC. However, the issue with Alternative Classics is having a fine balance. How would a song like "Southside" by Moby blend with a Limp Bizkit song from the same era. Two completely different artists with sometimes completely different fan-bases. This could be done, but there has to be some finesse not to throw off listeners.
One reason that Alternative/ Rock radio is dying is due to the demographics Alt Radio is targeting. The 18 - 34 college-educated crowd knows of many different ways to consume new music. Often, they will find out about this new music well before radio stations start playing it.
Pop radio listeners tend to be less adventurous. They hear the new Taylor Swift song on the radio, buy the album and go to her concert. Alternative radio listeners tend to scrutinize their music more, as well as divide listening between multiple platforms.
The only reasons I still listen to radio at times include the following: My work truck only has AM-FM with no connectivity or cassette deck for Auxiliary, or 4G reception sucks.
Pop radio listeners tend to be less adventurous. They hear the new Taylor Swift song on the radio, buy the album and go to her concert. Alternative radio listeners tend to scrutinize their music more, as well as divide listening between multiple platforms.
The only reasons I still listen to radio at times include the following: My work truck only has AM-FM with no connectivity or cassette deck for Auxiliary, or 4G reception sucks.
"Took the world by storm" is a lot of countries. Did that music take Ecuador by storm? Jamaica? Indonesia? Ghana? Iran? Of course not.
Hot AC was more of a format that developed as a reaction to the rap and hip hop phenomena than because of a few crossover alternative acts. Young adult listeners who liked pop music but not rap found a home in Hot AC, which was a mix of CHR and AC formatics with a more aggressive current list and fewer soft oldies than AC stations at the time.
If you look at the on-demand streaming rankers, you will see that the folks who are downloading are overwhelmingly listening to rhythmic material. The tastes of 18-34s have changed and alternative and rock are a far smaller part of the usage today.
I was just looking at the schedule for the Luke Bryan tour. In LA, he plays Dodger Stadium. Last year in San Bernardino, he put 60,000 peeps in an outdoor venue. What alt rock group can do that?
Even the formerly alt rock Coachella Festival was mostly rhythmic this year, with alt being phased out. They had attendance of over 100,000 on each of the 6 nights of the two weekends, and they have gotten permits for 125,000 for 2019. The promoters know what draws the audience and it is no longer alt rock.
https://www.pollstar.com/Chart/2018/01/2017YearEndTop200NorthAmericanTours_622.pdf shows the biggest tours of 2017. How many of the top 50 are alt rock?
Interesting that Bonnaroo tried classic rock for a few years, with McCartney and Robert Plant. This year, their biggest name is Eminem. But they've filled the bill with a lot of Americana artists like Sturgill Simpson. Americana seems to be picking up the old Alternative rock audience.
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Fenway Park in Boston has been hosting concerts in the summer while the Red Sox are out of town for several years. Five are scheduled this year. One is Foo Fighters, apparently the only alt-rock band capable of filling such a venue. The others? Billy Joel, a Journey/Def Leppard arena rock nostalgia show ... and two country acts -- Luke Bryan and the Zac Brown Band! In Boston, for pete's sake! If that doesn't tell you something about changing tastes and the growing irrelevance of current rock, I don't know what will.
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And that's a genre that can't carry a commercial radio station, in any market.
Because advertisers aren't interested in the audience. However, that audience will travel to attend music festivals. So there's money to be made.
Us oldsters don't want to sit in the heat for 3 days with the unshowered masses LOL.
You'd be surprised. Some of the oldsters aren't any cleaner or better smelling than the kids. Some rent a Winnebago for the wknd. It happens.
Rock is becoming a small, niche art form.
I think country will soon follow, actually -- despite present sales.
I tuned into the local hit country station yesterday afternoon. The song sounded like a CHR pop song. There wasn't a country element in it -- neither the instrumentation, the subject matter, nor the sound of the voice sounded "country". It all matched what you hear on a CHR station, minus some of the hip-hop or rap elements. The only thing country about it was perhaps the cowboy hat the singer may or may not have been wearing. Country is changing to where it isn't country anymore. It will soon turn into another form of pop -- if it hasn't already.
If you are referring to Coachella: the campers have shower facilities, the RV owners have their own motor homes, and the rest either commute from home or stay in area hotels.
And 100° in the desert is not "hot".
Wait a second? Isn't Rhythmic Music nothing more than a huge umbrella term, like Alternative is? Hip-Hop, EDM, Synth-pop, House, Disco and so on could be called Rhythmic. Yes, traditional rock doesn't have as much of a draw as it used to. However, isn't some of this so-called rhythmic music an evolution of what was popular in years past. For instance, hip-hop has taken a lot of influence from 70's and 80's pop music, such as Phil Collins. Heck, the most popular groups on Alternative radio today are not traditional rock groups, but modernized versions of 80's style synth-pop groups. Bleachers, Walk the Moon, Chvrches and Imagine Dragons are the most popular groups on Alt right now, groups that were heavily influenced by the likes Depeche Mode, New Order and the Eurythmics.
Also, the reason why Country music is so popular on the live circuit is the power of live performances, which has been the recurring theme on this thread. Well, if that was the case any band could become really popular if their live performances were engaging. Tool, Cocteau Twins, any band that could engage their audience in an extremely effective way.
Also, the reason why Country music is so popular on the live circuit is the power of live performances, which has been the recurring theme on this thread. Well, if that was the case any band could become really popular if their live performances were engaging. Tool, Cocteau Twins, any band that could engage their audience in an extremely effective way.
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