Denver Radio Compared to Phoenix & San Diego

I was in Phoenix visiting a while back and i couldn't believe the Diversity and Actual Variety in the Station in the Valley and Also listening to San Diego station on-line..


Ok so Denver is Ranked 20th compared to San Diego(17th) and Phoenix(14th)

But Yet when you look at the Demographics in each city( 12-14% Black) (15-20 % Latino) (55-75 % Caucasian)

Yet Denver has 4 Rock Stations..93-3 Alternative, 99.5 Classic Rock, 103.5 Classic Rock...105.1 Classic Hits(Rock) 106.7 Active/Hard Rock

92.5, 98.5, 97.9 Country

100.3, 105.9, 101.1, would be considered Hot AC or Soft Rock..

2 FM Sports Stations....104.3/102.3-105.5...which i still can't understand why a Market of this size..(under 1million) needs 2 FM Sports stations which talk about the same teams...IE Broncos/Avs/Nuggets/CU/CSU...

only 1 Rhythmic Top-40 or (Hip Hop) KQKS 107-5 Which is slowly a Dying Format anyways ...harldy ever plays any Old School...just the same 25 Pitiful So Called Rap Songs...mostly Awful Lyrics anyways....

KPTT...(95.7) Top 40.....Which sounds Similar to KQKS......same 25 Pop with some Hip Hop mixed in.....

Only 1 Rythmic Oldies(AC) Stations...Jammin 101.5 which is poorly Run and is on a Rimshot SIgnal..101.5 ??? ???

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Look at phoenix and San Diego....Each have 2 Solid R&B Oldies (KAJM/KOYT) and even a Old School Hip Hop(The True and Best Music of this Genre) KNRJ

XHRM/KOGO....R&B Oldies......

XHITZ/KHTS/KEGY.....Your Top 40/Rhythimc Stations


Denver Market is Really Sad and Boring Compared to Phoenix & San Diego..........It's Sucks listening to the Radio here.....you have 3-4 stations playing the same thing....when you have 2 or 3 formats which don't even get any consideration.......

I have been in this market since 1987 as a listener. In the last 8 months, I have returned to my roots, broadcast radio. I now volunteer for a community radio station. Back in the 1960's I was an employee at a stand-alone FM in a small market. I thought radio at that time in the 1960's was neat and an ever changing industry. Now it is the same old same old, market after market. The only thing that is neat in this market is 1340 and 1390/88.5. Give a listen to these stations.

My favorite thing at the radio station I worked at in the 1960's was the interviewing of G. Gordon Liddy (then a county District Attorney). Liddy was at the time of the interview, prosecuting Timothy Leary for selling LSD.

"2 FM Sports Stations....104.3/102.3-105.5...which i still can't understand why a Market of this size..(under 1million) needs 2 FM Sports stations which talk about the same teams...IE Broncos/Avs/Nuggets/CU/CSU... Shocked Shocked"

Denver's TSA is not under 1 million...it is a 6+ Population: 2,362,700...only 300K short of San Diego and 900K behind Phoenix.

Of which for Phoenix: Ethnic Composition: Black - 5.45% Hispanic - 28%

For San Diego: Ethnic Composition: Black - 5.34% Hispanic - 31%

Denver: Ethnic Composition: Black - 5.59% Hispanic - 21%

Not too dissimilar from one another

Usually the most successful sports stations talk about the local teams..should Denver sports stations talk about Kansas City sports, or Boston?

You have to realized San Diego doesn't have a NHL or NBA team. The last NBA team move 100 miles north and become Los Angeles Clippers almost 30 years ago.

e-dawg said:

You have to realized San Diego doesn't have a NHL or NBA team. The last NBA team move 100 miles north and become Los Angeles Clippers almost 30 years ago.

Click to expand...

I don't think the Clippers moving to L.A. or the fact there is no Hockey Team in San Diego is the point.

You could say well Chicago and Detroit have every major sports team and even those markets don't have 2 FM Sports stations.....Just don't see why Denver 104.3 or 102.3/105.5 where you need sports on both of these signals. Mix 100 is a freaking waste of a Station....when Alice 105.9 and KOSI 101 play almost the same Music...not to mention 95-7 the Party also plays Pop-Top 40.

105.1 should flip to Jammin Oldies which you actually here the station and 103.5 should flip to Classic Hits.



We have no true Rhythmic Oldies, Smooth AC (formerly Jazz), Classic Hip Hop, just to name a few....All these owners here are just too Conservitive and never want to think outside the Box.


Denver Radio will always be Sheltered....... ???

Johnnie_Radio said:

I was in Phoenix visiting a while back and i couldn't believe the Diversity and Actual Variety in the Station in the Valley and Also listening to San Diego station on-line..


Ok so Denver is Ranked 20th compared to San Diego(17th) and Phoenix(14th)

But Yet when you look at the Demographics in each city( 12-14% Black) (15-20 % Latino) (55-75 % Caucasian)

Click to expand...

(Snip.....)

92.5, 98.5, 97.9 Country

Click to expand...

Actually 97.9 isn't even licensed to Denver (Even though you can probably get it with a car radio & Internet Radio apps & sites list it as being a Denver station)

100.3, 105.9, 101.1, would be considered Hot AC or Soft Rock..

Click to expand...

100.3 & 105.9 are Hot AC stations while 101.1 is the Soft AC

2 FM Sports Stations....104.3/102.3-105.5...which i still can't understand why a Market of this size..(under 1million) needs 2 FM Sports stations which talk about the same teams...IE Broncos/Avs/Nuggets/CU/CSU...

Click to expand...

Uhh.....Because 102.3/105.5 is ESPN Radio & 104.3 is Fox Sports Radio ?? Seems to make perfect sense to me - Two different networks

Plus there's also Yahoo! Sports Radion on 1510/93.7, NBC Sports Radio on 1600 & CBS Sports Radio on god knows where (I'm guessing on 1600 as well on a shared basis with NBC Sports Radio with the exception of live sporting events, which are on 104.3)

only 1 Rhythmic Top-40 or (Hip Hop) KQKS 107-5 Which is slowly a Dying Format anyways ...hardly ever plays any Old School...just the same 25 Pitiful So Called Rap Songs...mostly Awful Lyrics anyways....

KPTT...(95.7) Top 40.....Which sounds Similar to KQKS......same 25 Pop with some Hip Hop mixed in.....

Click to expand...

95.7 does better because it's simply better programmed than 107.5

Only 1 Rythmic Oldies(AC) Stations...Jammin 101.5 which is poorly Run and is on a Rimshot SIgnal..101.5 ??? ???

Click to expand...

Kool 105 fills this void rather well but admittedly it doesn't come close to replacing the old Jammin 92.5 from back in the day

Denver Market is Really Sad and Boring Compared to Phoenix & San Diego..........It's Sucks listening to the Radio here.....you have 3-4 stations playing the same thing....when you have 2 or 3 formats which don't even get any consideration.......

Click to expand...

Which formats would you like to see here then?

Cheers & 73 ;D

Well The Problem is that as long as CC and Cumulus Own all the stations there will never be any real Music Diversity....there is just too much Mainstream in most of these stations now which makes it Stale :-\

3 formats that could possibly work if they were really programmed right, advertisers would come in because you would have an audience.........

1). A true Funk & Rhythmic Oldies Station.....Similar to when the Old KDJM Started by Chancellor in 1999, there playlist was very Traditonal and Ecletic...playing other Jams besides just the one that were Radio Hits.....and maybe mix...and go outside of your standard playlist...but then that would require hiring a Programmer who knew music and what sounds good.....

2). A true Jazz Station...Similar to once a time...WJZZ Jazz 106 started in Detroit back in 1974 or 1975...with Contemp and Traditonal Jazz and artist....But it won't make enough money for CC or Entercom or these other Big Greedy Radio Companies... ???

3). A true Classic Rap Station....nothing but Rap songs from 1975--2000....when the Lyrics stood for something and you could enjoy the Beats as well as the words the artists were rapping about. KDAY & KNRJ have similar formats in Phoenix and L.A. ......but again no one here would ever take a chance on either of these formats...It seems like Sports and Talk radio are too Easy and Cheap to overkill the dials here with.....

Johnnie_Radio said:

Well The Problem is that as long as CC and Cumulus Own all the stations there will never be any real Music Diversity....there is just too much Mainstream in most of these stations now which makes it Stale :-\

Click to expand...

Together, the two of them don't even own 20% of the nation's radio stations. The problem is the further consolidation of the music industry. They push what they want on radio, and the PD's don't have anywhere near the amount of choices they did 20 years ago (or less). Cumulus, and to a lesser-degree Clear Channel, just mean the record labels have a one-stop shop to push what they want. Cumulus and Clear Channel are more symptoms of the problem than the problem itself.

1). A true Funk & Rhythmic Oldies Station.....Similar to when the Old KDJM Started by Chancellor in 1999, there playlist was very Traditonal and Ecletic...playing other Jams besides just the one that were Radio Hits.....and maybe mix...and go outside of your standard playlist...but then that would require hiring a Programmer who knew music and what sounds good.....

Click to expand...

It's been tried. It started out hot and flamed out. The problem with rhythmic oldies is the burn potential. The Denver version had an additional problem in that the company that created it wanted something that would catch fire quickly so they could sell for a ton. Then, it became someone else's problem. Also, hiring a programmer who knows music is a non-starter. No one has a golden ear, and that notion has destroyed many a broadcasting career. The key is knowing how to work with people and knowing how to interpret data.

2). A true Jazz Station...Similar to once a time...WJZZ Jazz 106 started in Detroit back in 1974 or 1975...with Contemp and Traditonal Jazz and artist....But it won't make enough money for CC or Entercom or these other Big Greedy Radio Companies... ???

Click to expand...

You have that. It's called KUVO. It doesn't even get a 1 share and cumes under 100,000 people. Jazz 106 had similar problems. In your own words, it won't make enough money. So, that idea is DOA.

3). A true Classic Rap Station....nothing but Rap songs from 1975--2000....when the Lyrics stood for something and you could enjoy the Beats as well as the words the artists were rapping about. KDAY & KNRJ have similar formats in Phoenix and L.A. ......but again no one here would ever take a chance on either of these formats...It seems like Sports and Talk radio are too Easy and Cheap to overkill the dials here with.....

Click to expand...

See rhythmic oldies. Rap burns even worse than rhythmic music in general, which burns far worse than rock. KDAY and KNRJ are non-starters in their own markets.

Hmmm...KDAY is doing well considering its a niche format. A 1.0 in the recent book, yes, but knowing this is one of two Old School Hip Hop stations in the Country, and because KDAY holds heritage in the market, its doing its thing. Even their cume is doing good. Just a few months ago, they were over 1,000,000 listeners. Yes, LA's market may be 10,000,000, but to me, getting a million listeners, regardless of market size, is a winner in my book.

With Phoenix, KNRJ is at a 1.6. I remember sometime last year, it was in the 2's. They're even beating their own Rhythmic Oldies sister station! And KEXX and KGME for that matter.

So...are they doing COMPLETELY bad?

ksradiogeek said:

Hmmm...KDAY is doing well considering its a niche format. A 1.0 in the recent book, yes, but knowing this is one of two Old School Hip Hop stations in the Country, and because KDAY holds heritage in the market, its doing its thing. Even their cume is doing good. Just a few months ago, they were over 1,000,000 listeners. Yes, LA's market may be 10,000,000, but to me, getting a million listeners, regardless of market size, is a winner in my book.

With Phoenix, KNRJ is at a 1.6. I remember sometime last year, it was in the 2's. They're even beating their own Rhythmic Oldies sister station! And KEXX and KGME for that matter.

So...are they doing COMPLETELY bad?

Click to expand...

They're doing pretty badly. Neither is the biggest loser in its respective market (in LA, that would definitely be KXOS), but I wouldn't call either much of a winner. Cuming 1,000,000 in LA isn't exactly a major accomplishment. More than 20 other stations in LA cume 1,000,000 or more. Also, according to Tom Taylor NOW, the KDAY simulcast is about to be sold. The rumored price is $20 million, which would be a $15 million haircut from a deal that fell through a few years ago. That's not exactly how you spell success!

OK, so what's good about the Denver market?

1) KBCO - Denver has the nation's most respected Adult Alternative station. Even in this era where many AAA stations are struggling (KFOG San Francisco, KMTT Seattle, WXRT Chicago) or non-existant (NYC, LA, Atlanta, Houston, Philly) KBCO is one of the top music stations.

2) KOA - I'm not a fan of Conservative Talk but KOA is locally programmed nearly all day. Other than Rush and Coast to Coast/Wall St. Journal overnight, all hours are local. Try to find that in other markets Denver's size or larger.

3) Fulltime non-commercial Classical (KVOD) and Jazz (KUVO) stations, in addition to a very good NPR News-Talk station (KCFR).

4) One of very few Adult Standards stations left in the U.S., 1430 KEZW.

5) More Rock stations, five, than just about any other market in the U.S. In addition to KBCO, there's Alternative KTCL, Active Rock KBPI (few markets have both) and two Classic Rock stations, KQMT and KRFX. New York has only one Classic Rock station and that's it.

6) An FM and an AM Oldies/Classic Hits station, KXKL and KRWZ. Some markets like Houston, Washington and Atlanta have none.

7) In addition to KOA, there are an amazing five other Talk stations: Clear Channel's KHOW and Progressive KKZN, Salem's KNUS and KBJO, and another Conservative Talk outlet, KLZ. Most markets have only one or two Talk outlets.

You lack a true Top 40. I wish NYC had Alternative Rock...

Kent said:

Together, the two of them don't even own 20% of the nation's radio stations.

Click to expand...

Right. Cumulus and Clear, together, owne about 1350 of the 15,300 stations (not including translators and LPFMs) in the US. That is not even 10%.

XCountry285 said:

You lack a true Top 40. I wish NYC had Alternative Rock...

Click to expand...

I'm just a local (Denver/Boulder) listener, and not a very frequent one, but I'll comment anyway...

I agree there's no true Top 40 here, and that's a shame, but the situation isn't really much better with alternative rock. Granted, these stations are at the top of the ratings (kind of impressive), which is all that matters I guess, but I wouldn't get too jealous.

KBCO is certainly "Adult" Alternative... adult as in your hair is gray, your kids have all flown the nest, and you're shopping for a tandem or recumbent bike. Maybe once every few years they'll play a Nirvana or New Order cut, but the rest of the time it's very bland, all Adele, Neil Young, Bonnie Raitt, Elvis Costello, and other safe, middle-of-the-road, half-acoustic singer-songwriters and jam bands for the Baby Boomers; it's what sells in Boulder. [insert pot reference here]

Meanwhile, KTCL is never more than superficially edgy; it's strictly for the kids who shop at Hot Topic. The station used to target more of a 20-something audience, but now they seem to be going mainly for teens who won't tolerate nostalgia and who won't be listening for more than 2 songs, because that's about the size of their playlist. They're far more lively and theoretically able to take risks than KBCO, though.

I realize it's all business decisions; they're chasing the money, and there's not much of that in nostalgia or trying to cater to 150 alternative niches at once. But it means that musically, there's precious little in the way of actual alternative radio for the college kids or Gen X-ers...CU's dinky AM station notwithstanding.

Maybe something like Austin's 101X or western Ohio's 97X (RIP) would fly ... more "Personal Jesus", less "No Woman, No Cry"...but I think culturally, this area just can't support it. So if you've got a hankerin' for alternative rock and you're in between the KTCL and KBCO age ranges, you're probably listening to a podcast or going to a live show.

I got to take issue with a few things you said here

First off.....

Johnnie_Radio said:

I was in Phoenix visiting a while back and i couldn't believe the Diversity and Actual Variety in the Station in the Valley and Also listening to San Diego station on-line..


Ok so Denver is Ranked 20th compared to San Diego(17th) and Phoenix(14th)

Click to expand...

So what's your pont here?

But Yet when you look at the Demographics in each city

Click to expand...

Demos snipped because not only are they NOT RELEVANT but MAY NOT EVEN BE ACCURATE.....

Yet Denver has 4 Rock Stations..93-3 Alternative, 99.5 Classic Rock, 103.5 Classic Rock...105.1 Classic Hits(Rock) 106.7 Active/Hard Rock

Click to expand...

So we like our Rock. Who doesn't?

92.5, 98.5, 97.9 Country

Click to expand...

Umm someone correct me if I'm wrong (Which I don't believe I am on this) but last time I checked, there 's NO station based in the Denver Metro area licensed to operate on 97.9 (Though I'm told the CHEYENNE, WY station on that freq CAN be picked up here as can 98.1, BOTH stations on 94.3, 98.9 & others from out-of-town)

2 FM Sports Stations....104.3/102.3-105.5...which i still can't understand why a Market of this size..(under 1million) needs 2 FM Sports stations which talk about the same teams...IE Broncos/Avs/Nuggets/CU/CSU...

Click to expand...

FIRST - You somehow managed to COMPLETELY LEAVE OUT the FM Translator on 93.7 which simulcasts KCKK 1510 (Bringing the total to 3)

SECOND - It's because we have so many sports teams that we need 3 FM sports stations (And the one on 1600 AM). I mean look at the number of teams we have.....

MAJOR PRO TEAMS
============

* Denver Broncos (Whose games are broadcast on KOA with a simulcast on 103.5 starting this season)
* Denver Nuggets
* Colorado Avalanche
* Colorado Rockies (Whose games are broadcast on KOA)
* Colorado Rapids (Yes their games are on the radio too)

MAJOR COLLEGE TEAMS
===============

* Denver Pioneers
* Colorado Buffaloes (Whose games are broadcast on KOA)
* Colorado State Rams
* Air Force Falcons (Yes we get their games on the radio)

And that doesn't even include the small tykes (Like the UNDEFEATED Denver Outlaws outdoor LaCrosse team). Nor does it include the CBS Sports Radio Network (AM 1600 has chosen to align itself more with NBC Sports Radio Network than with CBS Sports Radio Network, though both claim affiliation with the station)

Basically put - Aside from Jim Rome (Heard on 104.3 The Fan) * Maybe a couple other shows, you have to go online if you wanna listen to anything else on CBS Sports Radio Network here in Denver

So, what's this about not understanding why we have all the sports talk stations we do again?

only 1 Rhythmic Top-40 or (Hip Hop) KQKS 107-5 Which is slowly a Dying Format anyways ...harldy ever plays any Old School...just the same 25 Pitiful So Called Rap Songs...mostly Awful Lyrics anyways....

KPTT...(95.7) Top 40.....Which sounds Similar to KQKS......same 25 Pop with some Hip Hop mixed in.....

Click to expand...

If it's a "Dying" format, why are you complaining about there only being two stations playing it? What do you expect? #DOH

Only 1 Rythmic Oldies(AC) Stations...Jammin 101.5 which is poorly Run and is on a Rimshot SIgnal..101.5 ??? ???

Click to expand...

Ugh..... *Rolleyes*

No comment beyond that..... *Shake Head*

Look at phoenix and San Diego....

Click to expand...

Good for them. But we're NOT Phoneix NOR San Diego (Both of which are politically CONSERVATIVE cities BTW while Denver & Seattle are more PROGRESSIVE - Think about it)

In short - If all you want is to listen to radio from places like Phoneix & San Diego, WHY are you EVEN MESSING with Denver ??

Think about that too while you're at it because it makes ABSOLUTELY ZERO sense to me. When you think you might have a clue, feel free to let us know

Just sayin'.....

Cheers & 73

Time to face facts.

XCountry285 said:

You lack a true Top 40. I wish NYC had Alternative Rock...

Click to expand...

If Denver had a true Top 40, KS107.5, 95.7 The Party, Alice 105.9 and Mix 100 will crush them, just like they crushed HOT 107.1. Believe me, I know.

XCountry285 said:

You lack a true Top 40. I wish NYC had Alternative Rock...

Click to expand...

Well, Denver now has a true Top 40. KPTT 95.7 the PARTY has shifted from Rhythmic to Mainstream Top 40, resulting in Nielsen BDS and Mediabase moving the station to their Top 40/CHR reporting panels. That move has paid off, and has helped the PARTY overtake KS107.5 as the most listened to Top 40 outlet in Denver!