NAB says it will make radio more "Local"

What are you talking about? The elimination of chain stores resulted in more choice for us. Instead of our choice being only several chains, we now have dozens of choices. And better prices. That's called competition.

Sorry, no. When any market is completely unregulated, it typically consolidates and moves from competitive structure to oligopoly or monolopy. Ever heard of anti-trust laws? You do understand that the government often regulates/limits ownership to maintain competition.

Are you kidding? "True competition would allow a radio group to own an unlimited number of stations." So, taking your argument further, true competition means that one group can own all stations if that's so desired? So, monopoly = competition. Sorry, that's not the way it works.

ChiefOperator said:

What are you talking about? The elimination of chain stores resulted in more choice for us. Instead of our choice being only several chains, we now have dozens of choices. And better prices. That's called competition.

Click to expand...

It's artificial. It's also restraint of trade, which is illegal. Unless this is a private community, what you're doing is against the law.

If a store is prevented from doing business, it's not allowed to compete. That's anti-competitive. Basic definition.

"You want real competition? Don't force artificial ownership restrictions. The American way is leave it to the marketplace. Not the government."

[/quote]

No, your world of allowing companies to compete against fewer and fewer companies is not the American way. I don't buy it. Radio groups don't believe in competition, that's why they acquire additional stations and buy other companies. Their goal is to become a monopoly and have NO competition.

As these companies acquire more and more stations, the stations within the cluster don't compete against each other. Stations that once competed against each other no longer do. That's not competition.

There are so many ad dollars to go around and only so many ways to split them. There are markets that had six stations that now have 30. How do you split a very limited amount of ad revenue among 30 individually owned stations (not to mention billboards, internet, cable,newspaper, shopper publications, etc) and expect that any of them are going to be able to hire full staffs and do all thsi public service programming? Either you'll let a stronger company operate them, accept that every station will be a low budget satelite operation, or sign 20 of them off the air. Forget the idea that there are going to be a bunch of super-niche formats for music geeks. They won't be able to support themselves.

ChiefOperator said:

Their goal is to become a monopoly and have NO competition.

Click to expand...

The FCC doesn't regulate monopolies. That's not their job. Monopolies are controlled the by Justice Department. Every station purchase must be approved by Justice to prevent a monopoly. There is more to a monopoly than owning all of the radio stations in a market.

Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly

You talk frequently TheBigA about how having less owners eliminates duplication. Yet, Cumulus Media operates 2 Country stations in Des Moines which are very similar for the sole purpose of keeping any other broadcaster, specifically CC and Saga from playing Country. They have a strong hold over the market which has been in place for several years prior to the Cumulus/Citadel merger. I would say your logic is flawed.

If a single broadcaster owns all the stations in a market, you have a monopoly over the broadcast radio market. If CC and Cumulus own all the stations in a market, you have a duopoly. It doesn't matter what some random person wrote on wikipedia.

Casey said:

If a single broadcaster owns all the stations in a market, you have a monopoly over the broadcast radio market.

Click to expand...

No one is asking for one station to own all the stations in a market. This thread is about eliminating the AM/FM subcap.

The Justice Department, the agency that is responsible for regulating monopolies, does not see broadcast radio as operating in a vacuum, but rather as part of a larger media marketplace. In addition there's nothing in FCC regulations that prevent one company from dominating a single format. The FCC rules deal with concentration of audience and revenue. There have been many cases in history where a single station gets more than a 20 share in its market. Even with those two country stations, Cumulus has the smallest percentage of the Des Moines audience.

Casey said:

Yet, Cumulus Media operates 2 Country stations in Des Moines which are very similar for the sole purpose of keeping any other broadcaster, specifically CC and Saga from playing Country.

Click to expand...

I think you're assuming that's the reason. Because there are similar markets that can support three or even four country stations. The fact that two are owned by the same company is more a function of heritage than ownership. It's not that Cumulus flipped one to country to dominate the format, but rather bought two stations that had been in the format for a long time. Similar to Wilks in Kansas City, or Clear Channel in Austin. But that didn't prevent Entercom from flipping one of their stations (WDAS-FM) to country to grab 1/3 of the format audience. What we're seeing now in Austin is that CC is apparently slowly weakening one of their country stations, preparing for an eventual format flip. In Des Moines, the question is which station would Saga or CC flip to country, knowing it would hurt them in terms of market share.

The FCC is tasked with controlling concentration of ownership of the PUBLICLY OWNED AIRWAVES. The usable electromagnetic spectrum is finite. That's why it's licensed, not sold. The electromagnetic spectrum is considered to be a precious resource that is to be controlled for the common good. One other thing to consider is that there are international treaties that also affect control of the electromagnetic spectrum. That may not directly play into the discussion of the AM/FM subcaps, but it certainly affects how the spectrum in general is allocated.

If any radio owner wants more reach, they simply need to extend their programming into other media. This is exactly what Clear Channel is doing with iHeart Radio, and most other broadcasters are doing with their selection of streaming hosts. THAT'S the "larger media marketplace".

SirRoxalot said:

The FCC is tasked with controlling concentration of ownership of the PUBLICLY OWNED AIRWAVES. The usable electromagnetic spectrum is finite. That's why it's licensed, not sold.

Click to expand...

Actually a big chunk of the electro-magnetic spectrum IS being sold, and has been for 20 years. The role of the FCC changed under Reagan, and has continued to change under subsequent presidents. The FCC frequently holds spectrum auctions, and the telecom industry has been the main beneficiary.

If new owners would like to buy radio licenses, there are hundreds of them available. But as you said, most have discovered there are far more profitable investments, so the owners we have now are the ones we will have. The FCC knows it's in the public interest to make them happy, and not force them to sell. Just like all the other publicly owned, privately licensed finite resources.

Casey said:

Yet, Cumulus Media operates 2 Country stations in Des Moines which are very similar for the sole purpose of keeping any other broadcaster, specifically CC and Saga from playing Country. They have a strong hold over the market which has been in place for several years prior to the Cumulus/Citadel merger. I would say your logic is flawed.

Click to expand...

The two... heritage... country stations have a 14 revenue share in total. WHO has a 21 revenue share.

Where is the stronghold on the market?

And... the two Saga AC's have a 14 revenue share. Why are you not complaining about them, too?

Clear Channel has about 29 12+ shares, while Cumulus has around 18. Saga has about 23 shares. Cumulus simply kept successful formats on successful stations and thus, preserved billing.

In fact, Clear has three rock stations, none of which are stellar billers. They could flip one to country, and even if they only took a third of the country shares, they would likely bill more than they are billing now on two of the three rock formats. The real issue is that it costs so much to flip a format that unless the current one is losing money, there is little incentive; a format flip often means dumping all the revenue and starting over, with an uncertain success and slow revenue growth in today's economy.

Cumulus has the #5 and #8 billers with country. A good, but hardly dominant, position. You're suggesting that for some reason they should not keep both stations in-format, or that it is monopolistic to have two similar stations? That's just not realistic, given the audience and revenue shares the two stations get.

DavidEduardo said:

Casey said:

Yet, Cumulus Media operates 2 Country stations in Des Moines which are very similar for the sole purpose of keeping any other broadcaster, specifically CC and Saga from playing Country. They have a strong hold over the market which has been in place for several years prior to the Cumulus/Citadel merger. I would say your logic is flawed.

Click to expand...

The two... heritage... country stations have a 14 revenue share in total. WHO has a 21 revenue share.

Where is the stronghold on the market?

And... the two Saga AC's have a 14 revenue share. Why are you not complaining about them, too?

Clear Channel has about 29 12+ shares, while Cumulus has around 18. Saga has about 23 shares. Cumulus simply kept successful formats on successful stations and thus, preserved billing.

In fact, Clear has three rock stations, none of which are stellar billers. They could flip one to country, and even if they only took a third of the country shares, they would likely bill more than they are billing now on two of the three rock formats. The real issue is that it costs so much to flip a format that unless the current one is losing money, there is little incentive; a format flip often means dumping all the revenue and starting over, with an uncertain success and slow revenue growth in today's economy.

Cumulus has the #5 and #8 billers with country. A good, but hardly dominant, position. You're suggesting that for some reason they should not keep both stations in-format, or that it is monopolistic to have two similar stations? That's just not realistic, given the audience and revenue shares the two stations get.

Click to expand...

Both of Saga's stations are different enough to be a non-concern, and one of them is a translator. Where as Cumulus has 2 stations playing nearly identical formats and one station is ~40kw while the other is 105kw. Big difference. I wouldn't consider the 2 Country stations heritage either. Not that it really matters, Cumulus had no trouble blowing up 92.3 KOEL in the Waterloo market, despite being one of the best known Country stations in the state. The call letters may have survived, but the format and strong signal didn't.

Clear Channel won't dump one of their stations to go country because the market will not be able to sustain 3 country stations. I am not following what the billing the two stations pull off has to do with anything. #5 and #8 isn't good at all compared to KHAK in Cedar Rapids. The only reason to keep both stations country at this point is to keep the others out of the market.

TheBigA said:

Casey said:

If a single broadcaster owns all the stations in a market, you have a monopoly over the broadcast radio market.

Click to expand...

No one is asking for one station to own all the stations in a market. This thread is about eliminating the AM/FM subcap.

Click to expand...

You're like a broken record.

Casey said:

You're like a broken record.

Click to expand...

And yet you still don't get it.

There are maybe four markets in the whole country where all the stations are owned by one company. They each got a waiver from the FCC for that purpose. AFAIK, there is no format duplication in those markets. That's the tradeoff. When you have competition, companies may play format games in order to win. When the competition is eliminated, those games don't matter. In any case, it's not worth discussing, because it won't happen.

TheBigA said:

Casey said:

You're like a broken record.

Click to expand...

And yet you still don't get it.

There are maybe four markets in the whole country where all the stations are owned by one company. They each got a waiver from the FCC for that purpose. AFAIK, there is no format duplication in those markets. That's the tradeoff. When you have competition, companies may play format games in order to win. When the competition is eliminated, those games don't matter. In any case, it's not worth discussing, because it won't happen.

Click to expand...

By "yet you still don't get it" you mean I don't understand why you think your opinions are fact and that I should accept them? You are correct. There is no debating with you because you only see things one way. When it seems like your opinions have been sufficiently countered you decide to debate about the person you are debating with instead of the topic at hand. This usually involves criticism about their choice of words, their choice of facts, or out accusing the person of having incorrect opinions in comparison to yours.

If you want to debate the true topic and the relating subtopics of this thread, then let's do so. Otherwise I see no reason to continue debating in this thread because it hasn't gone anywhere. Everything I have said is factually flawed or so it seems you think. I am not here to be told in a condescending way for at least the third time what the topic of this thread is or how I "still don't get it."

Hope you have a good evening.

Casey said:

By "yet you still don't get it" you mean I don't understand why you think your opinions are fact and that I should accept them?

Click to expand...

When I give very specific examples that prove my point, they are no longer merely "my opinions."

Whether or not you accept them is up to you. It doesn't matter to me either way.

Casey said:

Both of Saga's stations are different enough to be a non-concern,

Click to expand...

Among the few things I know for certain about radio is that a format or a playlist can be changed in a few hours.

and one of them is a translator.

Click to expand...

Er, but Ames is in the Des Moines MSA (which consists of 12 counties) and the station is 100 kw (the other being 92 kw, which is no difference at all). Saying KLTI is a translator is just not true.

Where as Cumulus has 2 stations playing nearly identical formats and one station is ~40kw while the other is 105kw. Big difference.

Click to expand...

No difference at all... except that the two Saga stations are near parity (one is just farther north, but well in the market) with nearly identical 65 dbu population coverage while neither of the Cumulus stations covers as many people with a useful signal as the two Saga ones.

I wouldn't consider the 2 Country stations heritage either.

Click to expand...

To the listener base, being established and in-format for five or six years is all it takes.

Not that it really matters, Cumulus had no trouble blowing up 92.3 KOEL in the Waterloo market, despite being one of the best known Country stations in the state. The call letters may have survived, but the format and strong signal didn't.

Click to expand...

K-98.5 is averaging a 14 share, which is consistent with the performance of the last 6 years that I looked at. Both the old and new frequencies give identical coverage in the metro, by the way. And that is about all that matters.

Clear Channel won't dump one of their stations to go country because the market will not be able to sustain 3 country stations. I am not following what the billing the two stations pull off has to do with anything. #5 and #8 isn't good at all compared to KHAK in Cedar Rapids. The only reason to keep both stations country at this point is to keep the others out of the market.

Click to expand...

The ONLY thing it is about is billings. There are 35 commercial stations licensed in the Des Moines market. 12 bill over $1 million. So 5th and 8th is quite good, and certainly justifies staying in the format. You don't blow up $4 million in billings... or half of it... to experiment with another format when you are obviously cash flowing the way things are.

As to KHAK.... Cedar Rapids has 15 total stations home to the market, and two and a half times the radio revenue. Poor comparison... almost irrelevant.

DavidEduardo said:

Er, but Ames is in the Des Moines MSA (which consists of 12 counties) and the station is 100 kw (the other being 92 kw, which is no difference at all). Saying KLTI is a translator is just not true.

Click to expand...

Saga does have a translator in Des Moines, but it's running rhythmic CHR not AC, which may have led to the confusion. CC's KCCQ is a local Ames station, with a so-so rimshot signal in Des Moines.

As far as the two country stations, KJJY has been country for 30+ years, KHKI has been country for over 15 years. So they're both heritage stations.

The most respected authority on the subject, former FCC Commissioner, Michael Copps said this regarding the Big Broadcasting Networks' last attempt to further deregulate the industry (and further destroy it):

"The situation isn’t going to repair itself. Big media is not going to repair it. This Commission is apparently not going to repair it. But the people and their elected representatives and attentive courts can repair it. Last time the Commission went down this road, the majority heard and felt the outrage of millions of citizens and Congress and then the court. Today’s decision is just as dismissive of good process as that earlier one, just as unconcerned with what people have said, just as heedless of the advice of our oversight committees and many other members of Congress, and just as stubborn — perhaps more stubborn — because this time it knows, or should know, what’s coming. Last time a lot of insiders were surprised by the country’s reaction. This time they should be forewarned. I hope, I really hope, that today’s majority decision will be consigned to the fate it deserves and that one day in the not-too-distant future we can look back upon it as an aberration from which we eventually recovered. We have had a dangerous, decades-long flirtation with media consolidation. I would welcome a little romance with the public interest for a change. Thank you."


I would like to add that we manage/own an LPFM and we have more local involvement than the majority of commercial stations in our region(Arbitron Rated Market -Philly/Atlantic City). As an example, we hosted a LIFT FM FREE Concert for our listeners just two weeks and had attendance of more than 1,300 people.

I'm glad we have an opportunity to serve the community and thank the FCC for making it possible!!!

Big broadcasters should also consider it a privilege to serve their communities and do a much, much better job of it. Most fail to serve their communities of license as it is and now they want the opportunity to own more radio? Instead of allowing the largest radio companies in the country to gobble up more stations, why not have officials review these large corporations to make sure everyone of their stations is truly providing quality LOCAL service. For those that fail, their respective licenses should be revoked and given to those that truly serve their communities of license.

josh said:

Instead of allowing the largest radio companies in the country to gobble up more stations, why not have officials review these large corporations to make sure everyone of their stations is truly providing quality LOCAL service. For those that fail, their respective licenses should be revoked and given to those that truly serve their communities of license.

Click to expand...

There is nothing in the rules and regs that require any amount of local service. Hundreds of stations in this country, mostly run by small owners, not large companies, run 24/7 satellite delivered formats. They have no local programming at all. This kind of thing has been done for 50 years, first using tape, then using satellite. It's perfectly legal.