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Market-by-market viability of AM radio

St. Louis has a ton of AM signals, but few are commercially viable... Legendary 50kW CBS News/Talker KMOX chugs along usually near the top of the market overall at 1120; 5kW KTRS generally shows up somewhere in the mid to high 2s - daytime non directional signal is the best in the market, nighttime, there are some real holes to the east. Oldies KZQZ, which has a CP to go to 50kW Days at 1430 usually chimes in around a 1, Clear Channel Black Gospel KATZ-AM usually shows up in the 1s, as does Sports/Talk KFNS.

Several other AMs show up with either a couple tenths of a point if they show up at all including Crawford Christian Talk 630 KJSL (once legendary Top 40 KXOK), 690 KSTL, also owned by Crawford with a Black Gospel format, Birach brokered foreign language stations 770 WEW and 880 WIJR, Lutheran Church owned KFUO (850), Classic R&B/Urban Talk WGNU (920), Brokered Religious KXEN (1010), Classic Country KQQZ (1190), Radio Disney WSDZ (1260), Bott Christian KSIV-A(1320), and Sports Talk KSLG (1380).

St. L probably has a more vibrant AM dials than most places, but outside of KMOX and the Christian stations, most of the local AMs are on life support.
 
KeithE4 said:
OK, that's 24 stations, but still only two have anything close to full-market coverage. Not my idea of a viable frequency band. All but maybe 550, 620, and 710 could disappear tomorrow and few would notice
Click to expand...

Why, out of curiosity, do you think 710 is worthy of inclusion with 550 and 620? It has no listeners to speak of, and no really usable night signal... in fact, it has a null right towards downtown Phoenix.
 
travisl5678 said:
In San Francisco we have a few still viable AM's. The main one is KNBR, a mostly local sports-talker with Giants baseball. KNBR covers the whole market with a strong signal 24/7, and can be heard from Redding in the North, to Fresno in the South. Other viable AMs are KSFO, The Limbaugh/Hannity affilate, KCBS(Which is also on FM at 106.9) and KGO, which despite going downhill in recent years is still a strong station
Click to expand...

Ratings have no real bearing on viability; a viable signal is one that covers all or substantially all of a market, day and night.

KNBR, KGO & KCBS, KEAR and KSFO are the only viable signals, in that order, are the viable signals in the market. KNBR is one of the few non-directional old class B clear channel stations (KOA, KNX being other examples) while KCBS and KGO are comparable north-south directionals which are at a real advantage in a market that is more than twice as long in that direction as to the east. And 560 and 610 are simply very good low dial regionals.

KGO generally has the highest 12+ numbers, followed by KNBR and then KCBS (based on what we knew the AM got pre-FM) and then KSFO and KEAR.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Why, out of curiosity, do you think 710 is worthy of inclusion with 550 and 620? It has no listeners to speak of, and no really usable night signal... in fact, it has a null right towards downtown Phoenix.
Click to expand...

Just guessing. I figured (apparently incorrectly) that sports would be the last remaining semi-viable AM format in Spanish as well as English. Their almost-nonexistent nighttime signal in the southeast valley certainly doesn't help them, although I would have thought that they'd get a decent number of listeners on the west side.
 
KeithE4 said:
DavidEduardo said:
Why, out of curiosity, do you think 710 is worthy of inclusion with 550 and 620? It has no listeners to speak of, and no really usable night signal... in fact, it has a null right towards downtown Phoenix.
Click to expand...

Just guessing. I figured (apparently incorrectly) that sports would be the last remaining semi-viable AM format in Spanish as well as English. Their almost-nonexistent nighttime signal in the southeast valley certainly doesn't help them, although I would have thought that they'd get a decent number of listeners on the west side.
Click to expand...

Sports is not a real format in most of Latin America. Mexico City has had various attempts, and none is either a ratings or billing success... the American sports talk format is more guy talk than just sports, and that may be the cultural factor that makes the format unimpressive in Spanish. There is an exception: Buenos Aires has a pretty successful sports station, but Argentina is the southernmost country in Europe, so the comparison is not really one that can be applied elsewhere.

Closer to home, in Puerto Rico, USA, there are a half dozen island wide talk formats, but no sports format. Of course, in PR the national sport is politics which explains both situations, I guess.

Mexico City has a half dozen FM talkers, so what we see is that even that format does better on FM (likely part of the reason the government is trying to move as many AMs as possible... maybe 75% of them... to FM)
 
Another week, another FM simulcast, as Buffalo's WBEN 930 is now heard at 107.7 FM, in what was described as a "stong AM" market.
 
Columbus is an interesting example, as aside from WTVN, the rest of the local station line-up
consists mainly of graveyard signals. That was probably fine back in the 50's but since then the
city has grown so rapidly (filling virtually all of Franklin County and spillover into adjacent counties)
that the signal coverage no longer cuts it.

Also it is a rather young demographic, made up of people who likely don't go searching for signals
on the AM dial. All of which paints a rather grim picture there.

Pittsburgh, by contrast, has one of the oldest demographics outside of Florida. Tons of
oldies fans, people who like adult standards (I think WJAS may be the highest rated AM in the
country still playing music), tight ethnic communities that enjoy their Italian, Polish, Slovak programming
on small stations, and a large contingent who basically just have their dials frozen on 1020 cause
they have not turned them in forty years. Add to that the fact that our rugged terrain makes FM
reception tricky at times, and it is a much brighter picture than three hours down I-70 in Columbus.

Of course, as an employee of one of the local AM's told me, "our biggest problem is that we lose
five listeners per day through the obituary column".
 
Speaking of Florida, 610 WIOD in Miami is now on an FM translator, 100.3 I think.

I'm not too familiar with the market, but Asheville, NC, has a very mountainous terrain and was mostly AM well into the turn of the century. The one time I was there in 1994, country WKSF 99.9 was the only commercial FM, and, tough it reached parts of NC, VA, TN, SC, KY and GA, I noticed it being a bit spotty around Asheville due to the multipath. Sister AM WWNC 570 was actually running a competing country format as well at the time and for many years thereafter. Graveyarder WSKY 1230 was doing oldies (this station was part of a long battle with the FCC over the 96.5 frequency in Biltmore Forest) and WISE 1310 was doing standards along with Hendersonville station WTZQ on 1600. Several FMs have moved to the city since that time and-like many other places, the AMs, save for WWNC, seem to have a somewhat more-diminished role there now.
 
FreddyE1977 said:
Columbus is an interesting example, as aside from WTVN, the rest of the local station line-up consists mainly of graveyard signals.
Click to expand...

There is only one "graveyard" frequency in the MSA.

Also it is a rather young demographic, made up of people who likely don't go searching for signals on the AM dial.
Click to expand...

Columbus, with an ACS 2009 median of 34.5 is almost identical to Los Angeles. Pittsburgh has an average of 40, making it more like places such as Buffalo. The issue is not too many people that are older, but the drain of younger people who go to places where there are more jobs. So Columbus's demos are not really younger, but some of the areas like Cleveland and Pittsburgh and such are older.

AM's problems there are complicate by the almost total lack of full market day and night signals... even WTVN at night has defects.
 
Asheville is a market that was big for AM. WWNC 570 was like an FM with its ratings and programming. 570 had a great signal. Back in the 90s and early 2000s, it was easily listenable as far S as Charleston at night. They were still country as recently as 2002 before they went to talk.

Greenville stations still have trouble getting up there.
 
DavidEduardo said:
FreddyE1977 said:
Columbus is an interesting example, as aside from WTVN, the rest of the local station line-up consists mainly of graveyard signals.
Click to expand...

There is only one "graveyard" frequency in the MSA.

Also it is a rather young demographic, made up of people who likely don't go searching for signals on the AM dial.
Click to expand...

Columbus, with an ACS 2009 median of 34.5 is almost identical to Los Angeles. Pittsburgh has an average of 40, making it more like places such as Buffalo. The issue is not too many people that are older, but the drain of younger people who go to places where there are more jobs. So Columbus's demos are not really younger, but some of the areas like Cleveland and Pittsburgh and such are older.

AM's problems there are complicate by the almost total lack of full market day and night signals... even WTVN at night has defects.
Click to expand...

WTVN will never be able to cover the entire metro with a usable nighttime signal. Their best chance was back in the late 90s, when there was much talk about them going to a 50K directional nighttime signal from eight (I think) towers near Circleville, about 30 miles south of Columbus. The very good omnidirectional daytime signal would have stayed at the current south side towers. But the NIMBY-type folks down in Pickaway County killed that and to the best of my knowledge, there's been little if any similar discussion since.
Point taken about the graveyard signals. But when WLW is the best night signal in some areas, it doesn't speak well to the state of Columbus AM.
 
How is AM doing in some of the markets we haven't heard from?

How about in some of the largest ones such as New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington, Philadelphia?

Or the medium markets like Nashville, Indianapolis or Virginia Beach/Norfolk (sports has migrated to FM there, but not news/talk)?
 
RadioDaze said:
How is AM doing in some of the markets we haven't heard from?
Click to expand...

The biggest issue is that few markets have more than one or two AMs that fully cover the population, day and night, in this environment of urban sprawl, high man made interference and cheapo radios.

In places like Chicago and New York, with 5 to 6 really viable signals, we have high billing stations on AM, some of them market leaders. The market has lots of revenue, the stations can afford good programming and the listeners can pick up the signals.

WCBS, WGN, WSCR, WBBM, WFAN are examples of great signals.

Some large markets like Washington, DC, have no viable AM signals. So none can combine revenue with available audience and make a success.

The remaining stations, those that are daytime or have deficient signals. Many of these are profitable doing paid religion, niche formats like Russian, and brokered programming.

As you get out of the larger markets, we have lots of places like Scranton-WB where AM shares are only a couple of percent and there is perhaps a small position for a mass appeal type station, but as news/talk migrates to FM, the whole AM band loses its big cume driver and there is just not much left. And brokered and religious paid programming is not as profitable in small markets unless stations are church-owned and have the purpose of creating a ministry well ahead of the profit motive.

How about in some of the largest ones such as New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington, Philadelphia?
Click to expand...

DC is horrible for AM. Philly has really 3 AMs doing well, WIP, KYW and 1210. LA has KFI and KNX and... er, well, KFI and KNX.

Or the medium markets like Nashville, Indianapolis or Virginia Beach/Norfolk (sports has migrated to FM there, but not news/talk)?
Click to expand...

Indianapolis is the poster child for what happens when the big AM format moves to FM. WIBC moved entirely to FM, leaving the AM dial with no cume magnet. Total AM cume suffered, particularly in the under-25 demos. This, again, is a market where no AM covers today's Metro Survey Area fully day and night, so AM is at a disadvantage.

In Nashville, except for WSM, there is really not a full MSA coverage station day and night (1510 misses some stuff at night and, well, it's on 1510) and WSM has been around 15th int he market in billings.

Tidewater VA-NC (Norfolk, Hampton, Newport News, and surrounding VA and NC counties) has no AM that fully covers day and night now... although 790, 850 and 1310 come close. Not a good AM market: WNIS is 9th in billing and WTAR and WGH are 19th and 20th... only 3 of the top 20 stations are AM. That is opposed to NY with 3 of the top 10 being AM and 5 of the top 20 on that band. Chicago has two of the top 10 highest billers on AM and 5 of the top 20. LA has 2 in the top 10 and 4 in the top 20.
 
KeithE4 said:
DavidEduardo said:
Why, out of curiosity, do you think 710 is worthy of inclusion with 550 and 620? It has no listeners to speak of, and no really usable night signal... in fact, it has a null right towards downtown Phoenix.
Click to expand...

Just guessing. I figured (apparently incorrectly) that sports would be the last remaining semi-viable AM format in Spanish as well as English. Their almost-nonexistent nighttime signal in the southeast valley certainly doesn't help them, although I would have thought that they'd get a decent number of listeners on the west side.
Click to expand...

David, Keith:

I think if there's a third viable signal in the Phoenix market (note I said "if"), it would be either 910 or 960. But neither is in the class of 550 or 620.
 
RadioDaze said:
How is AM doing in some of the markets we haven't heard from?

How about in some of the largest ones such as New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington, Philadelphia?

Or the medium markets like Nashville, Indianapolis or Virginia Beach/Norfolk (sports has migrated to FM there, but not news/talk)?
Click to expand...

L.A. is pretty much like everyplace else we've talked about...two AM signals that still can cover the market, KFI (640) and KNX (1070)...both 50,000 watts. As David said, ratings aren't necessarily a barometer of viability (a bad format on a good signal is going to do poorly), but in L.A. the two best signals are the two best performers. KFI (talk) is #3 in the latest PPMs, KNX (all-news) is 7th.

From there, it's a long drop...the next-highest rated AM station is KHJ (930), which is 28th. KABC (790) is #32. KHJ is regional Mexican music, KABC is talk.

KSPN (710) is the highest-rated sports station. It's #33. It gets a 1.0 with a monthly cume of 460,900. By comparison, the #1 station in the market, KIIS-FM, has a 5.1 and a cume of 3,898,000.
 
michael hagerty said:
KeithE4 said:
DavidEduardo said:
Why, out of curiosity, do you think 710 is worthy of inclusion with 550 and 620? It has no listeners to speak of, and no really usable night signal... in fact, it has a null right towards downtown Phoenix.
Click to expand...

Just guessing. I figured (apparently incorrectly) that sports would be the last remaining semi-viable AM format in Spanish as well as English. Their almost-nonexistent nighttime signal in the southeast valley certainly doesn't help them, although I would have thought that they'd get a decent number of listeners on the west side.
Click to expand...

David, Keith:

I think if there's a third viable signal in the Phoenix market (note I said "if"), it would be either 910 or 960. But neither is in the class of 550 or 620.
Click to expand...

XTRA 910 has problems in parts of Scottsdale - it goes away while driving on the 101 after dark. KKNT 960 is almost inaudible in Ahwatukee and Chandler. They barely come in at home in the 'Tuke. They're both too directional at night to give full valley-wide coverage.
 
Albany-Schenectady-Troy, NY:
590 WROW - long-time news/talker, flipped to soft AC/standards last year (moved from 100.9)... around 3.0 in the Arbitrons
810 WGY - now also on FM 103.1, this station airs mostly conservative talk... and is now #1 in the market displacing long-time leader WGNA
900 WUAM - simulcast of a local cable-only TV station (YNN Albany, TWC channel 9), almost never ranks in the ratings (and has a 106.1 translator now, too)
980 WOFX - Fox Sports 980, faltering since rival WTMM moved from AM 1300 to FM 104.5... only 0.4 last book
1160 WABY - pretty good standards station, Dial Global with local programming mixed in
1240 WVKZ - True Oldies 24/7, never ranks in the ratings, weak signal outside of immediate Schenectady area (~10 or so miles)
1300 WGDJ - best talk station in the Capital District, around 1.5-2.0 consistently
1330 WHAZ - local Christian Talk station, with a few FM repeaters
1400 WAMC - long-time known as WABY, bought by Chartock circa 2003 and is now a repeater of WAMC Public Radio
1460 WDDY - Radio Disney, but might be sold in the future (Radio Disney is pulling out of smaller markets, IIRC)
1540 WDCD - Christian Talk, owned by Crawford Broadcasting, almost never ranks

All other stations are insignificant rimshots at least in my eyes :)
 
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