• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

It's official

carolinaradio said:
Ken said:
Isn't most of Cumulus's stations in small markets?
Click to expand...
A lot of them are, but I mean the extremely small ones, like Lake Charles, LA, Columbus, MS, Fayetteville, NC, Faribualt, MN, Wichita Falls, TX, etc.
Click to expand...

I wonder if Cumulus has any idea of the realities of opertaing stations in major markets. The closest station they own closest to NYC is WFAS in White Plains, NY. That's probably the closest they currently have to a major market.

NY, Chicago and LA sure aren't Lake Charles, LA, Columbus, MS or Fayetteville, NC. ???
 
radioguy39nj said:
NY, Chicago and LA sure aren't Lake Charles, LA, Columbus, MS or Fayetteville, NC. ???
Click to expand...

They currently operate stations in Dallas, Atlanta, San Francisco, Cincinnati, Houston, and Indianapolis.

They're not all small towners.
 
TheBigA said:
radioguy39nj said:
NY, Chicago and LA sure aren't Lake Charles, LA, Columbus, MS or Fayetteville, NC. ???
Click to expand...

They currently operate stations in Dallas, Atlanta, San Francisco, Cincinnati, Houston, and Indianapolis.

They're not all small towners.
Click to expand...
They have some stuff in Nashville too, a fairly decent midsized market. They may be in some more mids.

I think they need to look at selling some of these small market holdings off. CC can pull small markets off, but Cumulus can't. The ones that they have in small markets that I've heard (other than Myrtle Beach) sound unprofessional and very unimpressive.
 
carolinaradio said:
I think they need to look at selling some of these small market holdings off. CC can pull small markets off, but Cumulus can't. The ones that they have in small markets that I've heard (other than Myrtle Beach) sound unprofessional and very unimpressive.
Click to expand...

In my view, the biggest problem they have is that there are a lot of small market Citadel stations too. So while the press releases talk about access to large markets, the bulk of the combined company is still small potatoes. And even worse, a lot of those stations are declining AM stations. They have a big problem in LA with KABC falling apart. We all know the problems in NYC. They just lost their morning show on WMAL in DC. So there's a lot to overcome. Probably more than they know.

As I said on the LA board, the former ABC Radio Network doesn't have a lot of programming assets worth talking about. They have Imus and Mark Levin on the talk side. They have rights to ABC News and ESPN. They have the 24/7 music formats based in Dallas. But overall, this part of the company needs a whole lot of help if they're serious about using the "national platform" they talk about.

So I agree. If I was Lew Dickey, I'd have a list of stations already on the block. I'd also look at dead AMs to donate to non-profits. All they do is suck blood from the healthy part of the animal. CC started doing that last year. The FCC looks kindly on that. And they have to find a way to make the former ABC Radio stations more efficient. The biggest problem there is you have mostly two station clusters in very expensive cities where only one station is a profitable FM, while the other is a dying AM. That needs to be fixed, and Citadel didn't know how to do it.
 
carolinaradio said:
TheBigA said:
radioguy39nj said:
NY, Chicago and LA sure aren't Lake Charles, LA, Columbus, MS or Fayetteville, NC. ???
Click to expand...

They currently operate stations in Dallas, Atlanta, San Francisco, Cincinnati, Houston, and Indianapolis.

They're not all small towners.
Click to expand...
They have some stuff in Nashville too, a fairly decent midsized market. They may be in some more mids.

I think they need to look at selling some of these small market holdings off. CC can pull small markets off, but Cumulus can't. The ones that they have in small markets that I've heard (other than Myrtle Beach) sound unprofessional and very unimpressive.
Click to expand...

Who would buy the small markets if Cumulus did sell some of them? Maybe Quantum. And I agree that Cumulus sounds terrible in small markets. The Wilmington, NC market sounds better then the Cumulus owned Myrtle Beach stations in my opinion. And Wilmington is a smaller market then Myrtle Beach.
 
Ken said:
Who would buy the small markets if Cumulus did sell some of them?
Click to expand...

I keep reading about all the "real broadcasters" who were bought out by the big owners, and are waiting on the sidelines for an opportunity to get back into the business at a cheap price. While I think that's all hogwash, I've seen a lot of GMs come along and buy their clusters from their employer. Often with special financing. Not many big companies are interested in small markets any more. That's going to become the place for smaller owners, perhaps locally based, to get a foothold and see if there's money in local radio.
 
Ken said:
The Wilmington, NC market sounds better then the Cumulus owned Myrtle Beach stations in my opinion. And Wilmington is a smaller market then Myrtle Beach.
Click to expand...

But Wilmington has more radio dollars. With the population nearly the same (rank, nationally, only a half-dozen positions apart), revenue is what makes Wilmington the "bigger" market.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Ken said:
The Wilmington, NC market sounds better then the Cumulus owned Myrtle Beach stations in my opinion. And Wilmington is a smaller market then Myrtle Beach.
Click to expand...

But Wilmington has more radio dollars. With the population nearly the same (rank, nationally, only a half-dozen positions apart), revenue is what makes Wilmington the "bigger" market.
Click to expand...

I don't understand how that is.
 
Ken said:
DavidEduardo said:
Ken said:
The Wilmington, NC market sounds better then the Cumulus owned Myrtle Beach stations in my opinion. And Wilmington is a smaller market then Myrtle Beach.
Click to expand...

But Wilmington has more radio dollars. With the population nearly the same (rank, nationally, only a half-dozen positions apart), revenue is what makes Wilmington the "bigger" market.
Click to expand...

I don't understand how that is.
Click to expand...

Quite simple. Wilmington stations bill more than Myrtle Beach ones, making it a better market.

Big example; Riverside/San Bernardino, CA is 26th in population but 51st in revenue. There are many cases of markets that bill better or worse than their population rank would indicate.
 
TheBigA said:
In my view, the biggest problem they have is that there are a lot of small market Citadel stations too. So while the press releases talk about access to large markets, the bulk of the combined company is still small potatoes. And even worse, a lot of those stations are declining AM stations. They have a big problem in LA with KABC falling apart. We all know the problems in NYC. They just lost their morning show on WMAL in DC. So there's a lot to overcome. Probably more than they know.

As I said on the LA board, the former ABC Radio Network doesn't have a lot of programming assets worth talking about. They have Imus and Mark Levin on the talk side. They have rights to ABC News and ESPN. They have the 24/7 music formats based in Dallas. But overall, this part of the company needs a whole lot of help if they're serious about using the "national platform" they talk about.

So I agree. If I was Lew Dickey, I'd have a list of stations already on the block. I'd also look at dead AMs to donate to non-profits. All they do is suck blood from the healthy part of the animal. CC started doing that last year. The FCC looks kindly on that. And they have to find a way to make the former ABC Radio stations more efficient. The biggest problem there is you have mostly two station clusters in very expensive cities where only one station is a profitable FM, while the other is a dying AM. That needs to be fixed, and Citadel didn't know how to do it.
Click to expand...
The biggest "problem" stations are the former ABC ones, especially in the top 3 markets. Like you said, they're not healthy stations, the AM's at least- and they are in small, inefficient clusters. Some of their big market acquisitions like Dallas and the AM's in SFO aren't as bad since they will be part of a larger cluster once it is completed.

If I were Lew, I would start looking at markets above 100 very carefully - especially the current Cumulus clusters. CC has successfully sold some smaller market clusters to local or regional broadcasters. I am sure there are some worth keeping, but a lot of them are not good and need to be weeded out. I mean, no offense to Columbia, MS....but really? Citadel has some dog markets, but not nearly as many and the deal will also get Cumulus in some more good mid-sized to larger markets; a good expansion in Atlanta, Minneapolis, OKC, Salt Lake City, New Orleans, Des Moines, as well as some good markets in TN and SC. There are more I'm sure.

@Ken I have never heard their Wilmington stations, but I've heard some of the "deep south" ones and they're sad. A lot of these small market ones don't even have Cumulus' national website platform and the websites are outdated.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Ken said:
DavidEduardo said:
Ken said:
The Wilmington, NC market sounds better then the Cumulus owned Myrtle Beach stations in my opinion. And Wilmington is a smaller market then Myrtle Beach.
Click to expand...

But Wilmington has more radio dollars. With the population nearly the same (rank, nationally, only a half-dozen positions apart), revenue is what makes Wilmington the "bigger" market.
Click to expand...

I don't understand how that is.
Click to expand...

Quite simple. Wilmington stations bill more than Myrtle Beach ones, making it a better market.

Big example; Riverside/San Bernardino, CA is 26th in population but 51st in revenue. There are many cases of markets that bill better or worse than their population rank would indicate.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks. That might explain why those stations have djs on their stations.
 
TheBigA said:
...the biggest problem they have is that there are a lot of small market Citadel stations too... And even worse, a lot of those stations are declining AM stations... If I was Lew Dickey, I'd have a list of stations already on the block. I'd also look at dead AMs to donate to non-profits. All they do is suck blood from the healthy part of the animal...
Click to expand...

Considering what Citadel did to that AM station in Scranton after a transmitter failure, I would think a combined Citadel/Cumulus entity would be glad to shed a few AM's here and there...

As for Cumulus stations, I've heard WGNI in Wilmington. Presentation is OK, could be better on the weekends. Their country stations in the Hudson Valley ("The Wolf") are nothing to write the den about. ::)
 
What about the logic of selling some of the big market stations? Would it make sense to unload something like WABC?
 
OC3 said:
What about the logic of selling some of the big market stations? Would it make sense to unload something like WABC?
Click to expand...

Why? Lew has made his intentions clear that he wants to be a big league player. So why would you sell one of the best assets (WABC)? If I were Lew, I start placing my AM talkers on to under performing FM signals. I would then sell the AM Sticks, in around 12 months time.
 
Lee Anderson said:
OC3 said:
What about the logic of selling some of the big market stations? Would it make sense to unload something like WABC?
Click to expand...

Why? Lew has made his intentions clear that he wants to be a big league player. So why would you sell one of the best assets (WABC)? If I were Lew, I start placing my AM talkers on to under performing FM signals. I would then sell the AM Sticks, in around 12 months time.
Click to expand...

Citadel's only FM station in New York, hot AC WPLJ, bills very well and has favorable demos. It doesn't get high ratings, but does extremely well with suburban soccer moms. Can't see why Cumulus would blow it up to move WABC to 95.5 FM. ???
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.
Back
Top Bottom