AM HD TURNOFF PACE ACCELERATES

Reliable internal sources in the companies involved report:

HD is history 24-7 at WLS 890 Chicago. Ditto WLAC 1510 Nashville. And at Citadel, engineers have been instructed not to update firmware or install upgrades, and when malfunctions occur, to just leave the Decepticon powered off.

Within Clear Channel the decision on whether to continue with HD on their AMs is increasingly being delegated to local management. As recently as a year ago there was a corporate mandate to keep AM HD going, but that's changed now. A few months back CCU corporate left it up to regional engineering supervisors. Now, the decision about whether the continue HD Radio on CC AMs is up to the local station managers and engineers. And I don't need to remind you how popular HD is among CEs. Tick, tock....

It's a Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) order for a gravely ill patient.

Savage said:

It's a Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) order for a gravely ill patient.

Click to expand...

And the patient is AM radio. AM HD is just a treatment that was applied to late and didn't work.

< And the patient is AM radio. AM HD is just a treatment that was applied to late and didn't work. >

I have to disagree. In Band Over Channels more accurately parallels an experimental treatment with a poorly researched {Or undisclosed.} "Risk to Benefit" ratio.

Toxic regardless of dosage.

Wonder when Crawford will stop their cheerleading and pull the plug on HD-AM? KBRT used to be in AM stereo. It would sure be a lot cheaper for them to just dust off that old Delta AMS exciter and put it back in service. I'm sure KFMB would appreciate it.

Ding, dong, the wicked witch is dead! ;D

Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh... (that's supposed to be the sound of her melting)

I'm going to send a thank-you letter to the GM of WLS.

Methinks the endorsements will end when the money runs out. This is America, after all. As a friend of mine once said, "money talks, nobody walks". Not that there's anything wrong with that, as a famous comedian once quipped!

Yes, HD AM doesn't work! Let's confine HD to the FM band and experiement with FM Extra channels! This is a great idea that would work.

DavidEduardo said:

And the patient is AM radio. AM HD is just a treatment that was applied to late and didn't work.

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Good. I'll take WADO for nothing and assume all debt. Deal?

DavidEduardo said:

Savage said:

It's a Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) order for a gravely ill patient.

Click to expand...

And the patient is AM radio. AM HD is just a treatment that was applied to late and didn't work.

Click to expand...

Cancer drugs may or may not work. And either way, they wallop the patient with very bad side effects. And to make matters worse, if the patient won't follow the doctors advice then all hope is really lost.

HD makes AM radio sound like FM, terrific! But who knew or cared besides radio freaks and geeks. Spots are running promoting generic HD radio, but where were the billboards promoting your NEW LOCAL AM HD radio station?

Where were the TV ads promoting your NEW LOCAL AM HD station?
Who are the stars of HD radio, AM or FM?
If the same content is heard on terrestrial radio as HD, were's the incentive to go through all the bull of buying another radio and having it installed?

A typical listener of AM radio is 40+ and they grew up listening to AM radio. Acceptance of AM or FM radio isn't a problem. Kids 8+ plus are growing up with their own brand of media. Smart phones, 3G & the internet. There's your problem!

The patient you spoke of was misdiagnosed. And the treatment isn't helping, it's making things worst by wasting valuable resources and time.

The doctors who believed wrongly satellite radio was cancer, should have been fired.
The doctors who prescribed HD radio and repeater AM/FM Wall Street radio deserve to lose
everything!

Radio is local! AM/FM or HD it's still local! It's about relationships! It's the one last protected land the internet can't compete on. Commodity Radio, AM/FM and especially HD won't cut it!

The Generals high atop their ivory towers are removed from the battle. Bankers understand spreadsheets. Spreadsheets won't win hearts and minds. Technology helps, but technology alone isn't enough. The internet/Ipod won that battle along time ago! So it's something less tangible. What could it be? Duh, entertainment, passion, fun and people. Thankfully people still respond to people.

So again who're the stars of HD radio AM or FM? Besides improved sound what's the big deal?

nothing!

Savage said:

Reliable internal sources in the companies involved report:

HD is history 24-7 at WLS 890 Chicago. Ditto WLAC 1510 Nashville. And at Citadel, engineers have been instructed not to update firmware or install upgrades, and when malfunctions occur, to just leave the Decepticon powered off.

Within Clear Channel the decision on whether to continue with HD on their AMs is increasingly being delegated to local management. As recently as a year ago there was a corporate mandate to keep AM HD going, but that's changed now. A few months back CCU corporate left it up to regional engineering supervisors. Now, the decision about whether the continue HD Radio on CC AMs is up to the local station managers and engineers. And I don't need to remind you how popular HD is among CEs. Tick, tock....

It's a Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) order for a gravely ill patient.

Click to expand...

Bob, I agree with you that AM IBOC is on life support. I predict that in 5 years, most AM stations will not be running IBOC and WYSL will not be molested by WBZ. OTOH, I believe the FM system will gain traction. The implementation will not be driven by the consumer, but by the radio industry. Radio is different than TV in that radio listening is passive and the general public doesn't care about the delivery method. I compare the radio industry to the telephone industry. Back in the 80's, Sprint invested in a fiber optic system. However, the general public didn't care and were happy with the system as it was. Other telephone companies invested in their electronic infrastructure which resulted in better service. With FM IBOC, more radios will end up in consumers hands - not because they will seek HD radios, but because more radios will happen to have the capabilities - especially in light of the power increase, and chips with lower power consumption. Bob, I respect your opinion because you know the radio industry inside and out, and I, OTOH am just a radio enthusiast, but could I be right about the FM system?

Len14043 said:

The implementation will not be driven by the consumer, but by the radio industry. Radio is different than TV in that radio listening is passive and the general public doesn't care about the delivery method. I compare the radio industry to the telephone industry. Back in the 80's, Sprint invested in a fiber optic system. However, the general public didn't care and were happy with the system as it was. Other telephone companies invested in their electronic infrastructure which resulted in better service. With FM IBOC, more radios will end up in consumers hands - not because they will seek HD radios, but because more radios will happen to have the capabilities - especially in light of the power increase, and chips with lower power consumption. Bob, I respect your opinion because you know the radio industry inside and out, and I, OTOH am just a radio enthusiast, but could I be right about the FM system?

Click to expand...

You need to ask the questions: "What problems are actually solved by IBOC?"-- then, if any problems are clearly identified, "Is there a more effective solution?" The long-term success of IBOC will then become apparent.

iBiquity wants us to believe the fundamental "problem" is that radio is analog and needs to be digital. However, as you say, listeners and advertisers don't care how content is delivered as long as the system functions reliably and is convenient to use.

I still hear ridiculous claims that radio must go digital because the supply of "analog" components is about to be discontinued by manufacturers, and without those parts -- well, we have no choice! This is a typical "FUD" tactic (Google the term for an explanation) and shouldn't be taken seriously. Although it's true that transmitters and receivers increasingly make use of digital signal processing, analog modulation will always be possible. The function of DSP chips is defined in software, so if you want to do AM or FM (or SSB, phase modulation, COFDM, or whatever), it's simply a matter of writing the appropriate code.

I can't wait to hear WLW turn off its IBOC. I listen to that station frequently and while I like most of their programming, they're one of the more obnoxious offenders here in the Midwest. After that ... WBBM, WSCR, WBZ, WTVN ... we can dream!

I believe the FM IBOC system is here to stay, especially given the support & programming of NPR. Nobody is going to get too excited about it, but it will probably enjoy a gradual incorporation by receiver manufacturers. Even though systems like FMeXtra might have made more technical sense, it was iBiquity that played the necessary political influence games with the FCC.

At some point, the graphed curve of decreasing licensing fees will intersect the curve of increasing numbers of receivers and most stations will adopt the technology, especially if the many bugs are worked out of the system.

Most interference problems resulting from increased sideband power will likely be ignored or denied. It's much less of a glaring issue with FM than it is with AM IBOC, at least for the average urban or suburban listener. The FCC has already demonstrated remarkably little concern for rural or DX broadcast audiences, as evidenced by the loss of fringe service in the DTV transition.

The original intent of IBOC was clearly the eventual elimination of analog radio broadcasting, with the hybrid mode intended as a temporary transition. Now, who knows? With the economy the way it is, we might be stuck with hybrid FM forever.

It's too bad that most of the developments in broadcast radio and television have been managed by politicians, not technicians. Edwin Armstrong's FM system has been so effective and elegant that nothing has really bettered it after almost 80 years. It was politics that drove him out the window.

pocket-radio said:

And the patient is AM radio. AM HD is just a treatment that was applied to late and didn't work.

A typical listener of AM radio is 40+ and they grew up listening to AM radio.

Click to expand...

Try changing that to 50+. Since agency buys seldom if ever are against 55+, there is a decreasing ad revenue base for AM

The patient you spoke of was misdiagnosed. And the treatment isn't helping, it's making things worst by wasting valuable resources and time.

Click to expand...

AM's future was written well before HD became available. Over the last few years, we have seen many significant AMs "rescue" their sales base by moving to FM or simulcasting on FM, further draining the band of "circulation" which affects the remaining AM negatively (look at Indianapolis AM shares after WIBC moved to FM).

The Canadians wisely have been moving most AMs to FM, leaving just a few AMs in cities where diversity permits and requires additional voices. Market forces are effectively doing this in the US, but the AM skeletons remain, many doing very specialized formats or selling brokered time.

[/quote]Radio is local! AM/FM or HD it's still local! It's about relationships! It's the one last protected land the internet can't compete on. Commodity Radio, AM/FM and especially HD won't cut it! [/quote]

Some radio is local. Most good radio is universal. In fact, in most of the world, national radio commands most of the audience.

[/quote]
What could it be? Duh, entertainment, passion, fun and people. Thankfully people still respond to people. [/quote]

And, in fact, the best national or regional talent nearly always wins over local talent... except in markets that are bigger than half the countries in the world.

Len14043 said:

With FM IBOC, more radios will end up in consumers hands - not because they will seek HD radios, but because more radios will happen to have the capabilities - especially in light of the power increase, and chips with lower power consumption. Bob, I respect your opinion because you know the radio industry inside and out, and I, OTOH am just a radio enthusiast, but could I be right about the FM system?

Click to expand...

Just my opinion but I don't think there will be that big of an increase in FM IBOC radios, the manufacturers have already taken a bath on it, do you really think the big companies will take another chance on something that practically no one wants nor cares about?

Another opinion, AM iBOC sounds like krap, it does not sound at all like FM, it is very artificial sounding, it is like AM radio on crystal meth. (this is your radio on drugs)

wgliradio said:

DavidEduardo said:

And the patient is AM radio. AM HD is just a treatment that was applied to late and didn't work.

Click to expand...

Good. I'll take WADO for nothing and assume all debt. Deal?

Click to expand...

Hey, I'll go one better. I'll offer CBS 10K for KFWB. If AM is dying then this is an offer they can't refuse.

c5

They should just let the AM band die and move all the stations to FM or Shortwave. Has anyone thought of trying out the FMeXtra method of HD radio? A few radio stations here in the USA are doing it; let's get more stations to try it out.

KB1OKL said:

Another opinion, AM iBOC sounds like krap, it does not sound at all like FM, it is very artificial sounding, it is like AM radio on crystal meth. (this is your radio on drugs)

Click to expand...

Based on the two largest signals in LA, AM HD does sound terrific. Both had a difficult trransition, particularly KNX which uses many outside sources. The dueling codecs have been resolved, particularly the treatment of cellular spot news coverage. Now, the stations have a presence and clarity of voice that compares favorably with FM.

DavidEduardo said:

KB1OKL said:

Another opinion, AM iBOC sounds like krap, it does not sound at all like FM, it is very artificial sounding, it is like AM radio on crystal meth. (this is your radio on drugs)

Click to expand...

Based on the two largest signals in LA, AM HD does sound terrific. Both had a difficult trransition, particularly KNX which uses many outside sources. The dueling codecs have been resolved, particularly the treatment of cellular spot news coverage. Now, the stations have a presence and clarity of voice that compares favorably with FM.

Click to expand...

That's all well and good...in LA. Bad in areas outside that market.

However, why do I have to suffer with interference from them in Phoenix when I listen to local KDUS 1060? Admittedly, they have a deep null in my direction (SW from their tower) which puts maybe 10 watts ERP toward south Tempe (its city of license), far-southeast Phoenix, and Chandler. KNX's hash completely covers it up when more than 3 miles south of their tower in Guadalupe.

I even hear the hash underneath their audio when north of the towers, where their signal is good, even at 500 watts. KDUS does not broadcast in HD, so it's not their own hash interfering with their audio (like KTAR's did before they shut it off).

Bottom line: KNX interferes with KDUS being to be heard in its own market, including part of its own city of license. I don't need to hear KNX in HD, but sometimes I like to listen to Sporting News Radio on KDUS. Not only is KNX's analog signal quite good in our area, but I can listen online if I want to (even though CBS probably doesn't care about broadcasting to Arizona in the first place).

DavidEduardo said:

KB1OKL said:

Another opinion, AM iBOC sounds like krap, it does not sound at all like FM, it is very artificial sounding, it is like AM radio on crystal meth. (this is your radio on drugs)

Click to expand...

Based on the two largest signals in LA, AM HD does sound terrific. Both had a difficult trransition, particularly KNX which uses many outside sources. The dueling codecs have been resolved, particularly the treatment of cellular spot news coverage. Now, the stations have a presence and clarity of voice that compares favorably with FM.

Click to expand...

David:
Can you post audio clips from KNX and/or KFI so those of us who have never heard decent AM-HD can have a listen? I've heard clips from WOR, a couple AMs in Oregon and WABC's oldies shows and all of which exhibit what I would describe as the hashy saccharine treble one would hear if their speakers were thrashed.

I've also heard an AM-HD sample where the treble dropped down to what I'm used to hearing from AM analog, coming back to 15kHz at parts where the treble was deemed necessary. And those parts had the saccharine hash.

If AM-HD can really sound like FM I'd like to hear it. :-X

AM HD could sound good when its well engineered. The trouble with AM HD is that their digital signal is extremely fickle and undependable. For instance, under ideal conditions, WLW can be heard in HD 200 miles from their tower, but can't be heard 10 miles away when indoors near electronic equipment. KFI and KNX may do well in Southern California. But if there is a thunderstorm, which is common here in the Midwest, the digital signal loses lock. Many thunderstorms here have frequent lightning and the digital signal cannot recover for long periods even fairly close to the tower. I think IBOC is a system that is compatible with FM, but not AM. Admittedly, the analog signal is trashed during severe lightning storms, but at least its audible.