CBS FM and "Oldies" Mania

As CBS FM prepares to hit #1 in NY,I notice that throughout the country, stations identifying themselves as 'oldies' have made tremendous leaps in the ratings,coast to coast...is this next big thing...Mr.Eduardo,chime in, please...
(at the same time, Top 40 seems to be on a roll as well...)

Mr. Edoardo would probably say that it has MORE to do with the new PPM technology than anything else - now as for me...

I agree with you - but then again, CBS-FM's CURRENT success is also a function of the fact that PD Brian Thomas and his ENTIRE programming/DJ team have kept up with the changing demographics even within this market and have made changes as necessary...AND THEY WORK!!

andreajesus said:

I agree with you - but then again, CBS-FM's CURRENT success is also a function of the fact that PD Brian Thomas and his ENTIRE programming/DJ team have kept up with the changing demographics even within this market and have made changes as necessary...AND THEY WORK!!

Click to expand...

For those of us outside the market.....what would the "changing demo's" be?

So the "classic hits" moniker (I refuse to use the word "brand") is no longer in vogue....? That didn't last long.

andreajesus said:

Mr. Edoardo would probably say that it has MORE to do with the new PPM technology than anything else - now as for me...

I agree with you - but then again, CBS-FM's CURRENT success is also a function of the fact that PD Brian Thomas and his ENTIRE programming/DJ team have kept up with the changing demographics even within this market and have made changes as necessary...AND THEY WORK!!

Click to expand...

There are no "changing demos" in NY. The population is pretty flat over the last decade, even two decades. The age distribution is pretty constant.

However, oldies listeners got older. It's a funny coincidence, but in the NY market, every year that passes sees every listener get one year older.

What we see is that to get enough 4o-54's to look good, CBS had to nuke a lot of the 60's stuff and add plenty of 70's and even 80's stuff, which makes this a format change from oldies to classic hits.

It's kind of amusing to see that Jack had the same ratings (not share) level in 25-54 as it does now with classic hits.

scooty430 said:

So the "classic hits" moniker (I refuse to use the word "brand") is no longer in vogue....? That didn't last long.

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It's the industry "insider" term for 70's based pop/CHR hit stations. Oldies is 60's based... or worse.

lalumia said:

As CBS FM prepares to hit #1 in NY,I notice that throughout the country, stations identifying themselves as 'oldies' have made tremendous leaps in the ratings,coast to coast...is this next big thing...Mr.Eduardo,chime in, please...
(at the same time, Top 40 seems to be on a roll as well...)

Click to expand...

I think the CBS increase (which is not that great) may have to do with the "fun" music in these depressing times as well as the "summer in the City" thing. They are, though, far away from being #1 12+ and even further away in any of the sales demos.

And based on 12+, I don't see anything like huge increases across the board for the format. Houston actually became oldies-less this year.

Don't confuse PPM numbers with diary numbers. The PUR base is very different, so a share means about 40% fewer listeners in the PPm than in the diay survey.

Let me chime in on this, too.

Yes, the CBS-FM staff has worked their butts off to make this happen, and I congratulate them. PPM technology is also a part of it. If anything, the PPM may be responsible for "saving" some type of "oldies" format on commercial radio. (At least in markets where a 60's/70's/80's format is viable).

At least, though CBS-FM has done it with personality and class, and not completely nuked the early years music, though at least with the way advertising is today, you can no longer hitch your station completely to 1955-1963. (And, no...I won't argue with anyone here about that - I've answered that question here dozens of times (just as David has) and none of you will change my position.)

David is correct, though in bringing up that CBS-FM still has quite a way to go to get to #1. But...that 4.9 million plus cume per week figure is pretty darned impressive for a station that was left for demographic death just a few years ago. (Didn't WABC used to crow about having about 5 or 6 million in cume per week at their heyday?)

Congrats to the people at CBS-FM.

KevinFodor said:

At least, though CBS-FM has done it with personality and class, and not completely nuked the early years music, though at least with the way advertising is today, you can no longer hitch your station completely to 1955-1963. (And, no...I won't argue with anyone here about that - I've answered that question here dozens of times (just as David has) and none of you will change my position.)

David is correct, though in bringing up that CBS-FM still has quite a way to go to get to #1. But...that 4.9 million plus cume per week figure is pretty darned impressive for a station that was left for demographic death just a few years ago. (Didn't WABC used to crow about having about 5 or 6 million in cume per week at their heyday?)

Congrats to the people at CBS-FM.

Click to expand...

If you listen, they don't play too many pre-1964 songs - and ones that they do (a "Runaround Sue" or "Do You Love Me") have allot of mass appeal and don't scream "OLD!" like playing Gee Whiz or something similar. Their music mix is very balanced between decades, style (pop/R&B/rock etc), and the positioning of the station still makes listeners "feel good" like an oldies station, but with classic hits demos. The personalities are top notch all round - when I ride around listening, I hate getting out of the car for fear of missing one of Broadway Bill or Bob Shannons breaks (and of course the infamous wit of Famous Amos). Again, the feel is the same of the original CBS-FM but with enough music tweaks to make it advertiser friendly.

Do I wish it was the same station when I started listening in the 1990's? Yeah, but times and circumstances change. For my 60's & 50's, I have the iPod in the car and other non-comm outlets to get my oldies fix. But kudos for CBS-FM for not only coming back, but winning in a PPM world with great radio.

KevinFodor said:

At least, though CBS-FM has done it with personality and class...

Congrats to the people at CBS-FM.

Click to expand...

Yep, isn't it amazing how a station that has a combination of real peple, nice and appropriate production values for the format, excelent music flow indicating a high degree of human attention to the log, and other "old fashion" values seems to win nearly every time?

The did do a nice job this time around... just a big enough library to keep the purists and chartists in check, and familiar and positive enough to get as good a TSL as the PPM will grant any station.

Congrats are definitely in order. Good radio works.

DavidEduardo said:

Yep, isn't it amazing how a station that has a combination of real peple, nice and appropriate production values for the format, excelent music flow indicating a high degree of human attention to the log, and other "old fashion" values seems to win nearly every time?

The did do a nice job this time around... just a big enough library to keep the purists and chartists in check, and familiar and positive enough to get as good a TSL as the PPM will grant any station.

Congrats are definitely in order. Good radio works.

Click to expand...

Wow! I'm almost tempted to say welcome to the cause, David. I might as well use this opportunity to say how much I've enjoyed learning a lot about the workings of radio through your experiences, insight and the endless amount of research you seem to know inside out. It is on the subject of the "oldies"/today's classic hits format where we have disagreed for quite some time but you inspire many of us to stand up for what we believe.

Anyway, CBS-FM is just aces and I believe they represent exactly what the format should be doing today and I know they are positioning themselves very well for tomorrow's battles as well. Brian Thomas has put together a winner and the great talent line-up who are given latitude clearly shows personality radio still can work.

I'm back in Florida after having been in the Big Apple/Tri-State area for the last month or so. It seemed I heard CBS-FM virtually everywhere I travelled. Obviously, I usually listen to the station via streaming but man oh man, hearing it in real time with the actual spots as I was driving around was so cool and so much better. What a treat!

Yes, congrats CBS-FM. My next wish is this sound can come to where I live. I often wonder if CBS Radio would consider offering their programming to other markets. When I read a story about Brian Thomas recently, he indicated what CBS FM does wouldn't work in a lot of other markets. I'm not too sure about that. I think with little local tweaking as what occurs with consultant recommendations, this format would be a winner. If a similiar format came to my town, I believe it would eventually blow the classic hits station we have (narrow playlist, no inovative programming,highly automated, no personality) out of the water.

I just want to say about CBS-FM, excellent job, Brian Thomas, good for the station, good for the right hits, the right selection, the right appropriate song for playing 60's through 80's. Good for CBS-FM for its "Classic Hits" under the title.

Take a look in the HV area, WBPM is doing horribly in the diaries in the Spring book. They try to improve the sound of the station and took it the wrong way. WBPM should be called "Classic Hits 92.9", not "Classic Rock 92.9". I guess that this station should be the next "Jack-FM". I looked at WBPM's playlists that "Thunder Road" by Bruce Springsteen was listed there, it should be playing on CBS-FM along with "Music Blimp" type songs from New Wave to alternative rock. My guess that CBS-FM should not be playing alternative rock from the 90's, it should not fit like the way "Jack" did.

If the station is good enough, maybe they will play "Road to Nowhere" by Talking Heads, "Like the Way I Do" by Mellisa Etheridge, "Police on My Back" by the Clash, "Man on the Moon" by REM and a bunch of others to this station. No! Brian Thomas doesn't think so playing WBPM type songs that doesn't fit at all.

WBPM is going to sound a lot like WRXP, Q104.3 and WBAB. And the former WNEW-FM from a long time ago.

Okay! Just a little thought, but congrats to CBS-FM for this station and it will soon to be on top for a long, long time.

CBS-FM: Good
WBPM: Bad

so glad to have started this love fest...and as I said the day before they signed back on, I will again...
More Marvelettes,Please!(and some 70's post-Ross Supremes!),CBS-FM!
#1 is coming....believe it!

bigtom101 said:

KevinFodor said:

At least, though CBS-FM has done it with personality and class, and not completely nuked the early years music, though at least with the way advertising is today, you can no longer hitch your station completely to 1955-1963. (And, no...I won't argue with anyone here about that - I've answered that question here dozens of times (just as David has) and none of you will change my position.)

David is correct, though in bringing up that CBS-FM still has quite a way to go to get to #1. But...that 4.9 million plus cume per week figure is pretty darned impressive for a station that was left for demographic death just a few years ago. (Didn't WABC used to crow about having about 5 or 6 million in cume per week at their heyday?)

Congrats to the people at CBS-FM.

Click to expand...

If you listen, they don't play too many pre-1964 songs - and ones that they do (a "Runaround Sue" or "Do You Love Me") have allot of mass appeal and don't scream "OLD!" like playing Gee Whiz or something similar. Their music mix is very balanced between decades, style (pop/R&B/rock etc), and the positioning of the station still makes listeners "feel good" like an oldies station, but with classic hits demos. The personalities are top notch all round - when I ride around listening, I hate getting out of the car for fear of missing one of Broadway Bill or Bob Shannons breaks (and of course the infamous wit of Famous Amos). Again, the feel is the same of the original CBS-FM but with enough music tweaks to make it advertiser friendly.

Do I wish it was the same station when I started listening in the 1990's? Yeah, but times and circumstances change. For my 60's & 50's, I have the iPod in the car and other non-comm outlets to get my oldies fix. But kudos for CBS-FM for not only coming back, but winning in a PPM world with great radio.

Click to expand...

I have always believed that there are some pre-1964 titles which are "timeless", that you can play with this type of radio station for quite some time to come and the songs, as you say, won't sound "old". Not every song makes this cut, but the ones that do should be played. No "oldies/classic hits" hybrid should automatically fear playing these songs. The problem is...some do without researching, and deservedly get the ire from the "purists" for not playing them.

DavidEduardo said:

KevinFodor said:

At least, though CBS-FM has done it with personality and class...

Congrats to the people at CBS-FM.

Click to expand...

Yep, isn't it amazing how a station that has a combination of real peple, nice and appropriate production values for the format, excelent music flow indicating a high degree of human attention to the log, and other "old fashion" values seems to win nearly every time?

The did do a nice job this time around... just a big enough library to keep the purists and chartists in check, and familiar and positive enough to get as good a TSL as the PPM will grant any station.

Congrats are definitely in order. Good radio works.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. It's just too bad more stations don't follow the WCBS-FM example.

As CBS's 101.1 here in Houston (Spanish) continues to head slowly down the crapper, would love to see Dan Mason think about doing here what he's doing with 101.1 in NYC.

WCBS-FM IMO is the gold standard of all Oldies stations and any Oldies stations in other markets wanting to be successful should follow their example!

but remember, gang, Houston is NOT New York City (inside industry joke...)

they'll 'get' The Marvelettes in Houston!...

DavidEduardo said:

CBS had to nuke a lot of the 60's stuff and add plenty of 70's and even 80's stuff, which makes this a format change from oldies to classic hits.

Click to expand...

Remember, they still do play more 60's than the average oldies station AND they still do manage to spin a few key 50's!!
So, kudos to CBS-FM for an "all-around" great job! Now, how about another A to Z?