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Soon! The coming Talk Radio tsunami...

Holland Cooke

Inactive
Inactive User
“Over my dead body” radio stations will pay record labels for airplay, vows NAB President David Rehr. From the grave, Frank Sinatra calls his bluff. Internet music sharing merely turned-up-the-volume. This dispute has been raging for generations, as Nancy Sinatra’s more recent Congressional testimony demonstrates.

Labels – which have lined radio station walls with appreciative Gold and Platinum records -- argue that the longstanding airplay-for-exposure swap rips them off, and starves their artists. They note that, in other countries, radio pays.

They should know, says radio. Some of the biggest labels are foreign corporations, seeing to “tax” USA radio stations. And labels have been starving their own artists all along. Bands make a living touring, and radio stations compete to promote concerts.

This story is less about revolution than technology evolution.
See that StubHub kiosk at the baseball stadium? If labels had embraced Napster that way, they might not be in trouble now. Radio could fend off 8-track, cassette, and CD…but iPod obsoleted FM as a music delivery appliance. Got an iPod? How many songs are on it? How many commercials?

“Customers are now in charge. The control of products or distribution will no longer guarantee a premium or profit,” Jeff Jarvis announced in his best-seller “What Would Google Do?” For record labels, the status quo is a death march. For music radio stations – already choosing between paying employees and paying for electricity -- change will be fatal to the business model.

It is unclear which inning this game is in, but smart stations aren’t waiting for the final score. Credit Rush Limbaugh for leading the vaunted Talk Radio Revolution that repurposed AM radio, back when AM radio became obsolete as a music delivery appliance. FM is already following.

Why now?
Why did a dozen years of “FM Talk”/”Hot Talk” hype fail to find traction? Bankers. If you asked them, they’d tell you that music = FM and Talk = AM. Now, they just want their money.

Now, listeners are wandering away from programming that suffers from the lack of attention and care and nurturing that programming got when a single station had its own GM and PD and Sales department. Now, GMs are saddled with multiple major market oversight, programmers responsible for non-music stations are too-young-to-have-grown-up-listening-to AM, and local Sales departments have more cluster tonnage to peddle than they can sell like it’s special.

FM radio works better than AM radio.
WTOP/Washington – now a group of FMs – was a 1500AM stand-alone when I managed it in the 1980s. Sure, it was a kick to crank a 50KW. At night, I’ve heard that station in Canada and Florida. If we only could’ve gotten into West Falls Church, Virginia.

There are also demographic limitations. Most of 25-54 grew up without an AM radio habit; and a pile of research demonstrates women’s aversion to AM radio snap-crackle-pop.

Thus the trend, well in motion, to simulcast or migrate graying legacy non-music AM sister stations to FM, replacing mid-pack or cellar-dweller music formats which owners can no longer afford to fund. Sometimes the right thing happens for the wrong reason. Watch what happens next.

If music royalty fees fly, The Talk Radio Tsunami will crest OVERNIGHT.
Literally within hours, there will be hundreds of new News/Talk FMs, via simulcast, based on what exasperated station owners are telling me.

Five minutes later, the second wave will be Talk start-ups, FMs-presently-playing-music, which will cobble-together a line-up of all-or-mostly-syndicated longform programming. Available programming will go quickly. In most markets, there is just-enough uncleared first-tier product available for one more talker.

When I started consulting (January 1, 1995), much of my work was flipping Adult Standards AMs to Talk. By then, we were second-in. We were the Dr. Laura station, because there already was a Rush Limbaugh station. Now, owners and GMs I’m hearing from want to know who else is on-the-bird, and how to make them sound like part of the station’s on-air family and how to sell it.

For syndicators I am also hearing from, “development” has become “scouting.” To satisfy the looming, sudden, overwhelming demand for barter longform, networks will sign in-place local Talk hosts whose acts have been bubbling under the tipping point until now.

The new music FM will simply be a distribution system, yet-another channel to graze.
Like TV stations suffering TiVo and competing with Hulu, radio is already losing TSL to iPhone and will soon contend with dashboard broadband access.

Remaining music FMs’ business model will be a new normal, a pay-for-play that consumers will understand. Heck, listeners already spend their day perusing product placement schemes. They’re grabbing that free iTunes download card at Starbucks’ cash register; and “American Idol” judges are sipping from a Coke-logo’d cup while contestants perform this week’s Ford music video.

Five years from now, there might still be music on FM. One year from now there will certainly be more talk on FM, even if radio is still arm-wrestling with record labels. Even just months from now, launching a Talk station will be harder, as syndicated shows get snapped-up.

Got a music FM? Think Musical Chairs.

Tell me I'm wrong.

HC
www.HollandCooke.com
 
Ah, to be a Talk Radio consultant on the eve of the Talk Radio Tsunami. LOL!!!! No, Holland, you're not wrong. And I know where to find you!

Your analysis is dead-solid perfect. The unknowable part of the equation, though, comes at the market level where each individual property will be scrutinized. Top billing music FM stations will see their margins lowered, but may continue to be extraordinarily profitable. Watching that 60 percent cash flow sliced to 50 percent or 40 percent won't be fun, but the net will still be outrageous.

But for marginal properties--for that 4th or 5th FM in the cluster on its third music format in three years--it will be a no-brainer.

That is, until the flip. That's when the brains come into play. Because, as you can attest, it ain't just a matter of slapping any-old-talk onto the stick and walking away.

And once the third, fourth, and fifth FM in a given market moves to talk, what exactly do the sixth, seventh and eighth converts crank up on the frequency modulation band?

Should be fun. And, Mr. Cooke, will you need a chauffeur?
 
I have many thoughts on this subject.

One of them is that the bulk of the royalty battle is over the stations that make more than $2 million a year. They are the ones that will pay a percentage of revenue.

I just finished doing my taxes, and it struck me that the easy way to circumvent the royalty in the cluster world is move most of your revenue generation (ie, commercials) to another station in the market. The music audience hates commercials anyway. So you play more music, you pay the low $5K fee, and generate revenue in other ways.

In my next life, I'll become a tax attorney.
 
Radio can survive and thrive in the future, but it means first admitting the industry is broken and rethinking radio.. Shell games and squeezing more blood for short-term gains and executive bonuses, is a sure race to the bottom. The consolidators are winning the race.

Consolidators have one core value, greed! And they'll screw anybody to get what they want

Competition makes every one that much better. Problem is, consolidators gobbled up the traditional competitors so crap has become the new standard. They're clueless when it comes to new media! It's like teaching an old dogs new tricks.

This is your brain..

This is your pilot speaking. Enjoy your flight with consolidated crap airlines.
Our mission is greed and to nickle and dime you to death, while delivering crap service.
Enjoy your peanuts and flying with pilots with less experience who work cheap! To save on fuel, customers must first step on the scale.. And if you're fat, you pay extra. Bathrooms are coin operated.
Blankets and pillows are self service. See the vending machines for over priced drinks..

If this doesn't make you happy.. we don't care... take the trains instead...uh..

We except cash, credit or check?

Thank you for flying with consolidated crap airlines..

Any questions..
 
pocket-radio:

I like your comparison.

Radio and Airlines were both affected by 1980s deregulation and neither industry will become what it was before the rules changes. Even if the laws were rolled back to 1977, there's no guarantee that full meals would return to a flight from New York to Denver.
 
pocket-radio said:
Radio can survive and thrive in the future, but it means first admitting the industry is broken and rethinking radio.

Maybe you're not paying attention. EVERYONE is rethinking radio. Not a day goes by when I don't rethink approaches to radio. And most of the biggest companies, the ones everyone hates, are rethinking all the premises on which radio was built. There is no status quo. It's all in the garbage, and has been for a couple of years. I think THAT is what has a lot of old timers in radio scared.

The reason they're scared is the old timers only know what they've done. They don't know new media, they don't know how to make money without :30 spots, and they don't know how to create content that appeals to Gen Y. The old timers are confusing the idea of rethinking radio, which means creating something unique, with retro radio, which means returning to pre-consolidation ideas. The latter is not going to happen. You can't put the toothpaste into the tube. Congress is not going to re-regulate. It's up to the people in the business to chart a new course. Change is coming, and those who can't adapt will be on the street.

I think change has begun to happen, and the old timers aren't going to like it. Why? Because the future won't look like the past. So you have bloggers like Jerry Del Coliano who, on the one hand, speaks in glowing terms about the big future for new media and podcasts. While on the other clings to the past with live & local DJs. No one cares about live & local DJs. No one needs a live & local DJ is all they do is front and back sell music. No one needs live & local DJs for music discovery. The audience already knows what they like. The audience just wants to hear their favorites, and they want to be part of the show.

The role of the DJ has changed, but no one told the DJs. Whoops! If you're a DJ and you're not on Twitter or Facebook, you are part of the problem. Not your boss, not your company, not consolidation. DJs are on the front line of the battle for new radio. If you're a DJ who is twice the age of your station's target demo, you have a lot of work to do. If your station appeals to people in their 20s and you are in your 40s, maybe it's time for a makeover. Look at your photo on the station web page. Do you look like Aqualung? Maybe it's time to loose some weight and use some hair color.

EVERYONE needs to rethink radio, not just the owners. That includes the bloggers. That includes the haters, who think it all begins and ends with ownership. It doesn't. It begins and ends with the product. Product and ownership are two different things. Ownership is simply the landlord. Don't look to ownership for creative inspiration, because that's not their job. That's YOUR job. All you need to do is let them know what you're doing. Then do it.
 
Sounds good, Big A. Holland, I like your post but at the same time I'm wondering about a couple of things, one being your prediction. It's almost May and it seems you were predicting taht Rush, hannity, et al would be free-falling in the ratings and a new "caller-driven talk radio" would be skyrocketing. Thanks to a certain President O, Rush's ratings have been the best in years, and I still haven't heard this "caller driven" format.
It seems like attempts to "young up" talk radio haven't been too succesful, witness LA losing it's hot talker. The demos are coming down as AMs switch to or simulcast with FMs, but not from any new up and coming younger-skewing hosts.
 
gr8oldies said:
you were predicting taht Rush, hannity, et al would be free-falling in the ratings and a new "caller-driven talk radio" would be skyrocketing.

I SURE DO wish that most radio talkers would read-the-room-better.
Radio TSL erodes, even as cume inches up a tad...while people are adopting social media in unprecedented fashion.
(Various estimates peg Facebook's DAILY new member sign-up rate at 250,000-450,000).

Meanwhile, many radio talkers seem-to-be:
a.) talking-at, rather-than-with, people;
b.) talking-about-the-same-thing-every-day.

Can anyone NOT guess what-Rush-will-be-talking-about -- other than himself -- tomorrow?
Does Rev. Jeremiah Wright exist anywhere-else-in-media -- 5 months after the election -- besides The Sean Hannity Show?

So I've been preaching-to-anyone-who'll listen about making what-we-do more dialogue, less monologue.

As that topic got lively here a while back, I recall predicting that radio would fall-on even tougher times SOON.
Headlines since will address that-part-of-your-query.

But I want to respond as-specifically-as-I can.
Please copy-and-paste-into-Email what-I-posted that-you-reference about Rush/Hannity?
Send to [email protected], so it doesn't get-smothered-in-spam at my AOL address.
Although I'm in breakfast-to-dinner convention mode this coming week, I'm checking Email at least daily.

THANKS
HC
 
Holland Cooke said:
Most of 25-54 grew up without an AM radio habit; and a pile of research demonstrates women’s aversion to AM radio snap-crackle-pop.

Radio has much bigger problems in the next 30 years as most of the under-30 crowd today is growing up without either AM or FM, never mind the format.

Personally, I can't think of a better example of an electronic wasteland than today's hate talk radio.
 
landtuna said:
Holland Cooke said:
Most of 25-54 grew up without an AM radio habit; and a pile of research demonstrates women’s aversion to AM radio snap-crackle-pop.

Radio has much bigger problems in the next 30 years as most of the under-30 crowd today is growing up without either AM or FM, never mind the format.

Personally, I can't think of a better example of an electronic wasteland than today's hate talk radio.

I am more of the mindset that people are tired of having information thrown at them from any direction. Whatever happened to that great big wave that hit Indonesia? It's all dried up. The old Vapors cover of Talk Talk comes to mind. I like to listen to a local station for a short time in the morning. From then on I concentrate on my work and listen to music. Weekends I enjoy my music. I read the newspapers ( :eek: ) and get all the information I want as a result of being literate, and I form my own opinions. It's a simple plan. Simplicity simplcity.
 
Amen!

Silkie said:
people are tired of having information thrown at them from any direction.

AGREE.
That's a-lot-of what-I-was-getting-at i.e., make programming as-participatory-as-possible.

The reason I asked that other poster to re-send me "skyrocketing" and "freefall" is because I don't remember using those terms.

And I also agree with your point about viewpoint topics being overdone.
Two stations I'm in-the-process-of flipping music-to-Talk will be apolitical, i.e., Dave Ramsey/Clark Howard/Dr. Laura.

This Thursday, we'll witness the clout of Dave Ramsey.
Listeners-to-affiliated-stations-I-consult are devotees to Howards' nerdy/authengic-sounding Clark-Smart shtick.
And perceptual research I've seen demonstrates that Schlessinger has nine lives.

Now Ed Schultz' radio show will benefit from his MSNBC exposure.

Yet, for all the affiliates just-those-four already have, 400 in Ramsey's case, these shows are still available in many markets. So there's product for another talker in many cities. But probably not two.

Good afternoon from NAB2009, Las Vegas,

HC
www.HollandCooke.com
 
Re: Amen!

Holland Cooke said:
Silkie said:
people are tired of having information thrown at them from any direction.

AGREE.
That's a-lot-of what-I-was-getting-at i.e., make programming as-participatory-as-possible.

The reason I asked that other poster to re-send me "skyrocketing" and "freefall" is because I don't remember using those terms.

And I also agree with your point about viewpoint topics being overdone.
Two stations I'm in-the-process-of flipping music-to-Talk will be apolitical, i.e., Dave Ramsey/Clark Howard/Dr. Laura.

This Thursday, we'll witness the clout of Dave Ramsey.
Listeners-to-affiliated-stations-I-consult are devotees to Howards' nerdy/authengic-sounding Clark-Smart shtick.
And perceptual research I've seen demonstrates that Schlessinger has nine lives.

Now Ed Schultz' radio show will benefit from his MSNBC exposure.

Yet, for all the affiliates just-those-four already have, 400 in Ramsey's case, these shows are still available in many markets. So there's product for another talker in many cities. But probably not two.

Good afternoon from NAB2009, Las Vegas,

HC
www.HollandCooke.com

As participatory as possible is the keyword. The structure still has the information being thrown at us, and then people with their take on it. I guess I just prefer to find news and information without having fed to me what someone else considers important. Conversely, you can't just have a free for all, in which people just call all day to discuss what they think about any number of topics. I'm just not impressed with talk radio beyond the information that I get locally. Nationally and internationally I am reasonably well read. A person calling a radio station who concurs with my opinion is, to me, like preaching to the choir. A person calling a radio station with a differing opinion does not have enough time to dissuade me from a well thought out position that I have taken in my own mind and heart.
 
Re: Amen!

Silkie said:
As participatory as possible is the keyword...you can't just have a free for all, in which people just call all day to discuss what they think about any number of topics.

YAH-mon!

Although I don't remember writing "skyrocketing" and "free-fall," I sure do remember urging that (and this'll be familiar HC lore to talent who suffers my direction on-an-ongoing-basis) the host's job is to conceive (topic choice), conduct (technique), and BARELY-control the on-air conversation.

Silkie said:
I'm just not impressed with talk radio beyond the information that I get locally. Nationally and internationally I am reasonably well read.

If you don't already, you should hear the daily shortform "newscast" that The New York Times puts-up, free, on iTunes.
It's EXCELLENT.
 
A person calling a radio station with a differing opinion does not have enough time to dissuade me from a well thought out position that I have taken in my own mind and heart.
Especially not when the host is arguing with the caller all the way.

Hannity, anyone?

And, for the record, Twitter and SMS (text) messages don't qualify as participatory.

ESPN Radio, anyone?
 
Re: Amen!

Silkie said:
As participatory as possible is the keyword.

Riiiiiight! Instead of listening to a blathering blowhard opine his personal thoughts I'd much rather listen to a bunch of insomniac trailer park wackos vent.

Reminds me of a fist fight in the school playground.

Radio of the future? Don't think so!
 
Holland, I was referencing this and the thread it was attached to "Real Dangerous Thinking: Listners tune in to hear compelling hosts". No, you did not use the words "free-fall" or "skyrockert" but you did imply that once we reconvened on may 26, the talk radio landscape will have changed, and to me anyway, that meant that the current talkers would be substantially losing audiecne and a new "caller-driven" variety would be taking off.




"I should clarify.
You don't need to believe me if it's not comfortable to.

Just make a note on your calendar: May 26, 2009, six months from now.

Let's all reconvene here and see how "The I-I-I Me-Me-Me I-Talk-You-Listen-Democrats-Bad-Republicans-Good Show" is doing then.

We can also check some stock prices.

Meantime, you can marginalize what-I-am-merely-reporting-here as "assertions," rather than data.
But you do so at-the-risk-of counting-peanuts-instead-of-elephants.
NOT an opinion:
November 4, while Republican Radio ranted, the Democrat with the best Facebook page won.

The notion others cling-to here that people will FIRST stop-what-they're-doing-so-we-can-tell-them-how-WE-feel...THEN interact-with-each-other-about-it is as antique as it is arrogant. Radio sure DOES feel threatened by the societal shift from cram-downs-from The Authorities to the new tech-enabled democracy.

But maybe you missed the story week-before-last about Google.
Google is now 7-10 days AHEAD OF The Centers for Disease Control at spotting flu outbreaks, based on Search."



As far as the "tsunami" it could well happen, butg I'm not sure I can envision four or five viable FM talkers in most markets. If we break the available formats down top conservative talk, liberal talk, advice/info talk, sports talk, and maybe lifestyle talk and Urban talk..then religious talk/teaching that's first a lot of content to find, and I can see stations going from a 15 share with music to a one share overnight. KLSX's format went by the wayside; I don't know what's really there to replace it. Where I live we have a dominant AM/FM simulocast news talker (Morning News, Boortz, Rush, Hannity, Howard, Savage, C2C), two sports talkers, one of which is simulcast on a second frequency and mostly doesn't even get a one share, an Urban AM that does a couple of talk shows, plus WLW blasting in from down the road. (I'll also note that Cincy's FM talker was less than gangbusters as well as their "love talk" liberal station (I guess if conservative talk is "hate talk" than presumably liberal talk is "love talk". I'd think most of our established music stations will bite the bullet, but certainly I can see some of the flankers going talk. I suppose someone could pick up Glenn Beck, Dave Ramsey and Dr. Laura.

Should be some opportunities for talent who can take advantage of it, but you'll be producing it yourself and syndicating it, not becoming a station employee.
 
Good evening from NAB2009/Las Vegas

landtuna said:
a bunch of insomniac trailer park wackos

Hey, be nice.
Those are "Arbitron diarykeepers." :)
Some are probably the 100+ AQH/week P1s who can move a station's rank.

gr8oldies said:
Holland, I was referencing this...No, you did not use the words "free-fall" or "skyrockert" but you did imply that once we reconvened on may 26, the talk radio landscape will have changed

At-the-risk-of sounding like an ex-high school English teacher:
Only a speaker can imply; only a listener can infer.

So we've established that the "free-fall" and "skyrocket" business WAS inference, you-putting-words-in-my-mouth.

RE the-radio-landscape-changing-by-May 26, and "We can also check some stock prices?"
Though we've still got a month to go, here are just a couple of headlines from the past five months:

The company that owns WGN filed for bankruptcy.

The company that owns all-of-the-following hit a ONE PENNY share price and got kicked-off the NYSE:
- WABC/WPLJ, New York
- KABC/KLOS, Los Angeles
- WLS/WZZN, Chicago
- WBAP/KSCS/KPMZ, Dallas
- WJR/WDRQ/WDVD, Detroit
- KGO/KSFO, San Francisco
- WMAL/WJZW/WRQX, Washington
- WKHX/WYAY, Atlanta
- and others, a total of 165 FMs, 58 AMs
- ABC Radio Networks
- The Sean Hannity Show
- Imus In The Morning
- ESPN Radio
- Etc.

And you may have read about several firings.

RE "November 4, while Republican Radio ranted, the Democrat with the best Facebook page won:"

Did I miss a re-count?
Or are we debating whether McCain's Facebook page was better than Obama's?

gr8oldies said:
As far as the "tsunami" it could well happen, butg I'm not sure I can envision four or five viable FM talkers in most markets.

Can you show me where, up above, or anywhere else, I said THAT?
Or is that also your inference?

Hey, I hope radio CAN stave-off this music royalty thing.
NAB President David Rehr says "over my dead body."
And my Beatles necktie got compliments from several NAB execs at their Leadership Reception at the Bellagio an hour ago.

But some music stations aren't willing to sit-out the suspense.
And THOSE stations are picking what's-left-of the-low-hanging-fruit of syndicated talk longform.
Snooze, lose.
And I'm SAYING SO, not just implying that.
Please DO remind me later that I did.

HC
www.HollandCooke.com
 
gr8oldies said:
Holland, I was referencing this and the thread it was attached to "Real Dangerous Thinking: Listners tune in to hear compelling hosts". No, you did not use the words "free-fall" or "skyrockert" but you did imply that once we reconvened on may 26, the talk radio landscape will have changed, and to me anyway, that meant that the current talkers would be substantially losing audiecne and a new "caller-driven" variety would be taking off.




"I should clarify.
You don't need to believe me if it's not comfortable to.

Just make a note on your calendar: May 26, 2009, six months from now.

Let's all reconvene here and see how "The I-I-I Me-Me-Me I-Talk-You-Listen-Democrats-Bad-Republicans-Good Show" is doing then.

We can also check some stock prices.

Meantime, you can marginalize what-I-am-merely-reporting-here as "assertions," rather than data.
But you do so at-the-risk-of counting-peanuts-instead-of-elephants.
NOT an opinion:
November 4, while Republican Radio ranted, the Democrat with the best Facebook page won.

The notion others cling-to here that people will FIRST stop-what-they're-doing-so-we-can-tell-them-how-WE-feel...THEN interact-with-each-other-about-it is as antique as it is arrogant. Radio sure DOES feel threatened by the societal shift from cram-downs-from The Authorities to the new tech-enabled democracy.

But maybe you missed the story week-before-last about Google.
Google is now 7-10 days AHEAD OF The Centers for Disease Control at spotting flu outbreaks, based on Search."



As far as the "tsunami" it could well happen, butg I'm not sure I can envision four or five viable FM talkers in most markets. If we break the available formats down top conservative talk, liberal talk, advice/info talk, sports talk, and maybe lifestyle talk and Urban talk..then religious talk/teaching that's first a lot of content to find, and I can see stations going from a 15 share with music to a one share overnight. KLSX's format went by the wayside; I don't know what's really there to replace it. Where I live we have a dominant AM/FM simulocast news talker (Morning News, Boortz, Rush, Hannity, Howard, Savage, C2C), two sports talkers, one of which is simulcast on a second frequency and mostly doesn't even get a one share, an Urban AM that does a couple of talk shows, plus WLW blasting in from down the road. (I'll also note that Cincy's FM talker was less than gangbusters as well as their "love talk" liberal station (I guess if conservative talk is "hate talk" than presumably liberal talk is "love talk". I'd think most of our established music stations will bite the bullet, but certainly I can see some of the flankers going talk. I suppose someone could pick up Glenn Beck, Dave Ramsey and Dr. Laura.

Should be some opportunities for talent who can take advantage of it, but you'll be producing it yourself and syndicating it, not becoming a station employee.

Thank you. Long live gr8oldies!
 
Having worked in music radio and talk radio, I think... ah, screw it. You guys have about covered it. I'm going to log onto Pandora and read a book.
 
From a mere listener's point of view: The Record industry shoved narrow,musically tasteless playlists down our throats long ago and rather than notice the total failure of this tactic they simply plodded on. The result was loss of listener interest which led to stations flipping formats to other failed formats. Although people bought albums,tapes and CDs in order to hear what they wanted the companies continued to act as if they were going broke. How is this possible? They made money from the SALE of music!!! Why strongarm radio stations to play overblown 'hits' that only made the charts due to the forced play?? They cannot have it both ways. My two favorite radio stations were flipped a few years back thanks to corporate thinking. Will this force me to conform to corporate thinking? No it did not and will not. When the Talk Radio Tsunami hits I will already have been gone from the disaster zone. I listen(ed) to radio for music and music only. I have purchased MANY dozens of albums,now CDs, since the days of Wolfman Jack and they were never,ever the ones being shoved down my throat. It is not the fault of consumers that corporations lack the common sense or foresight,or even hindsight, to realize they built an empire of crap. So...other countries radio pays for music? Fine. Other countries also deny people the slightest of human rights,regularly behead citizens,imprison the innocent and revere the homicidal leaders. Get another example. This is WDLS ::) signing off the airwaves with a Big F. You to the Record industry.
 
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