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modification Optimod 8100A

Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

Goran,
I ended up leaving the release times as original,the roxette track has standard release times.

One of the mods to the xt2 was to alter the limiter threshold of band 1,and add the band 1 clipper back(as in the early xt version).

On the stock xt2,band 1 and 2 shares the same clipper,also if you have a constant bass note,the band 1 limiter's level only clips on the attack part only of the note,the level settles several db's less than the combined clipper of band 1 and 2.

What i did was to first put back band 1's clipper,then calculate the clipper to be -1db less than the combined clipper,also i raised the threshold of limiting of band 1 up approx 3 db.
This makes the band 1 clipper more active,but as band 1 clippers o/p feeds in to band 2's clipper,this gives band 2 contribution a 1db guard level.
This makes the bass more consistent.

What i found with the xt2 as standard,is that heavy transient bass attacks,would momentarily clip the combined bass clipper,so causing small but noticeable distortion of band 2's audio.
Afer the mod,the lower midrange has less distortion when using the 8100a/xt2 on competitive settings.

Of course i am not suggesting that the 8100a/xt2 can hold up with current technology!

I have a detailed description of the resistor changes required,no re calibration is required,as long as the xt2 is in calibration before modification.
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

BROADCAST said:
The input to the module has a clipper,on the input of an inverting opamp circuit,the o/p of the opamp goes to several stages of lp filtering,and phase correction.

There is also a parallel path that has in effect only the clipped only products from the i/p clipper that are lp filtered at approx 2.2khz,then recombined with "main circuit path".

From what i can emulate up to this point,if no clipping occurs,the main audio out frequency is flat up to approx 7khz,at approx -26.5db.(remember this is the o/p of the module,not the rest of the post circuitry on card 8).

If i were to short the ip clipper to ground,this would cancel all main path audio,but pass the full audio through the 2.2khz lp filter,this has the effect of producing an audio level on the modules output of -8.9db.
As this higher level of 2.2khz lp filter gain circuit summs,out of phase,compared with the "main path",this would indicate to me that the effect is to cancel,or reduce clipper induced distortion below 2.2khz.

That is where i compared the Mr gibbs module to a smart clipper,please accept my apology if i am wrong here,as frank,you will know better than me.
Click to expand...

Not sure you've got it. Sounds like something got messed up in the module.

-Frank Foti
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

Sgeirk said:
My taste in music runs the gamut from Oldies to Alternative to dance (mostly drum and bass) to some things that would curdle milk if it were in the same room.

I've used an 8100 w/Arianne in a major market for Oldies with beautiful results...recently. My goal was to "create a sound"...a sound reminiscent of how the songs sounded on the radio when they first came out, but a whole lot more open. It was a success.

My experience with today's hyper-compressed music is that one of today's Oxxxx processors are better suited to the unfortunate task, rather than an 8100, although after a lot of the mods discussed on here, perhaps not.
Click to expand...

The 8100 on today's music sounds very good. On oldies, it's also hard to knock, but there are lots of digital processors that can been manipulated to do whatever you want.

This thread does say something about a 27 year old box.
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

Goran Tomas said:
I also tried raising the limiter threshold of band 5&6 to get less HF limiting and more clipping, but like Mike, didn't actually like that. The jocks OTOH didn't like the slower release times in multiband as it provided less level correction and less "fusing" of the sound in the mix, so eventually I returned to the stock set-up. Can't fight the people when they get used to something...
Click to expand...

I like depth to my audio, the 8100 is like a warm blanket, especially when you're running fast paced radio. It is bulletproof with either the Ariane or Compellor in front when it comes to level correction in almost every configuration except the slowest release times..

It also rolls with the music, that you have to feel, but I think you know what I mean.
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

BROADCAST said:
What i found with the xt2 as standard,is that heavy transient bass attacks,would momentarily clip the combined bass clipper,so causing small but noticeable distortion of band 2's audio.
Click to expand...

True, with initial bass impact (especially if the bass bands have low GR) the bass can clip. Other than that 8100/XT2 handles transients very well. I can tolerate some program-appropriate transient smashing, but what I don't like hearing is processor recovery after the transient. The 8100/XT2 handles that very natural, whereas some processors change the texture and level of the sound from sharp to softer as limiting releases into compression...


Regards,
Goran Tomas
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

Broadcast,

Can you upload some more clips of the processors which you have modified? The Roxette track is very nice, but I'd like to hear more :)


Regards,
Goran Tomas
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

Hi Goran,
Ok i have just uploaded a track called Nelly futado,say it right.
This is from the now 66 album,and has nasty hypercompression on it.
I have also included the source track,cut down,from the cd direct,for comparason.

Open the original in soundforge etc,and have a look at how the bass squeezes out the vocal/midrange!

The 8100a/xt2 has been left set for the roxette track,so plenty of compression on the 8100a!
The xt2 has 1db presence boost,and 3db brilliance boost.

Also i have left in the 222a spatial enhancer in,enhancement set for 3.

Remember that all the phase rotation has been left in the 8100a,and band 5/6 xt2 clippers are as standard,i have not raised the clipping threshold.

I will upload some older tracks,like richard marx etc,later.
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

I have now uploaded Richard Marx track called Right here waiting.
This is the original track from the repeat offender album,so has no hypercompression,and sounds far better to me.

This was played on radio stations,at the time,on analogue processing,during 1998 era.

I have left the 8100a/xt2 settings as in the roxette and nelly furtado tracks,needless to say the 8100a's dual band agc has far less compression due to lower audio levels from the cd.
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

In my previous post is said "This was played on radio stations,at the time,on analogue processing,during 1998 era".
I should have said 1988 era!

The modify posted option has gone,but the quote option remains,so another post from me!
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

BROADCAST said:
In my previous post is said "This was played on radio stations,at the time,on analogue processing,during 1998 era".
I should have said 1988 era!

The modify posted option has gone,but the quote option remains,so another post from me!
Click to expand...

I was going to say... ;D

R
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

BROADCAST said:
I have left the 8100a/xt2 settings as in the roxette and nelly furtado tracks,needless to say the 8100a's dual band agc has far less compression due to lower audio levels from the cd.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clips! Personally I'd prefer a little less breathing, but other than that it sounds nice. Can I ask you to record one more clip from me? The song is Tina Arena - Chains and I've uploaded it on http://fserver.redirectme.net I'd like to compare your processing with the 8100/XT2 we got here...

What modifications you actually made on the 8100/XT2 you're using for this?


Regards,
Goran Tomas
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

Goran,
I have uploaded the Tina arena track,recorded from my tuner,from the 8100a/xt2.
Where do i start with the modifications?
Replaced all important 072 opamps,Replaced all electrolytic caps for low esr caps,gate modification,fitted band 1 clipper in xt2,changed resistor values so that band 1 clipper clips at -1db from band 1/2 combined clipper,raised band 1 limiter threshold by approx 2db,so now band 1 clipper clips more often,but combined clipper has 1 db headroom for band 2's contribution.
The bass mods do not alter proof conditions.
Put band 6 limiter control back(like xt),but with mods.
Band 6 can only limit as much as band 5(like xt2),but releases independantly.
On dull material,band 6 shows less average limiting than band 5,so lifts the top end somewhat.

The reason for the breathing you mentioned,is because the dual band agc(8100a) has been left at my default setting.
This means that on old recordings,the agc still has -10 db compression,whereas hypercompressed tracks compress the agc to -20db .
The reason i did this was to keep the agc density about the same,as the bass and master band start to progressively release slower.

The xt2 attack and release times are as standard,i may fit a variable clipper threshold circuit on band 6 only,to give 0-2db of lift to add a bit more sparkle.
As the xt2 soulds fairly clean,i think i could get away with a touch less clipping on band 6.
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

I wish the modify option was working!
I was in a mad rush when i uploaded the track earlier and should have should have spelt the artist correctly,which should have been Tina Arena!

Also my previous i did not finish off a line,it should have said "The reason i did this was to keep the agc density about the same,as the bass and master band start to progressively release slower when the compression is less than -10db to 0db".

The moral of the story is,don't post when you are in a mad rush!
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

A track I would like to hear put through is Kelly Clarkson's 'because of you'. The intro I find is very difficult to process without clipping.
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

Stace,
I have Kelly clarkson's track ,but as it's on now 63,it will be hypercompressed,so will sound a mess even before any processing is done to it!
Do you have a non compressed version?
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

Here's a list of songs

The Stranger - Billy Joel
All I Have To Give - Backstreet Boys
Rush Rush - Paula Abdul
Babe - Styx
Love On The Rocks - Neil Diamond
Angel - Sarah Mclachlan
I'll Never Get Over You Getting Over Me - Expose
Are You That Somebody - Aaliyah
Who Will Save Your Soul - Jewel
I Believe In Father Christmas (Choir Mix) - Greg Lake
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

I have been listening to Roxette Queen of rain by ModuloMaxx ,strange how the hf drops away,this happens on numerous times,especially when the word "sun" is sang!
Also the distortion is bad during the clarinet,section.

What processing is used on the Modulomaxx recordings?
 
Re: modifacation Optimod 8100A

wgliradio,
Yes i have the Expose and Paula Abdul tracks.
Also some Sweet sensation tracks are good tests!
 
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