B96 WBBM-FM Rhythmic Gold-Leaning Top 40?

[Gregg.]

On the Miami board, there's a discussion that WPOW, for decades a Rhythmic Top 40 station, has switched to Rhythmic, Gold-Leaning Top 40. And folks are saying it copied co-owned WBBM-FM B96 Chicago. Both are owned by Audacy and both have seen their ratings slip in recent years, falling behind competitors in their markets.

In Chicago, WKSC, iHeart's Top 40 Kiss-FM, is tied for #10 in the current ratings. B96 is #17.

In Miami, WHYI, iHeart's Top 40 Y-100, is tied for #11 in the current ratings. Cox's Rhythmic Top 40 WFLC is tied at #15. WPOW Power 96 is #18.

The Miami thread says WPOW is only playing about 4 currents/recurrents an hour. The rest is 90s/00s/10s hits and rhythmic hits. Some are wondering if we should even use the term "Top 40" or "CHR" anymore, when referring to B96 and Power 96. If you're only playing four songs per hour from this year, and you're reaching back 25 years for your playlist, are you really a Top 40 anymore?

 

[JeremyAndrews]

I don't consider B96 to be CHR anymore. It's not even really entirely Rhythmic Gold. It's basically Hot AC with a rhythmic lean. Most of the new music they play is Pop. Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, Jonas Brothers, Morgan Wallen, Katy Perry, Lizzo, etc. Vast majority of that can be heard on Hot AC stations. The golds are Pop and Hip-Hop from the 2000s, some 90s. Mostly 2000s and 2010s. Rhythmic Hot AC seems to be a reasonable label for it.

There's little good new Top-40 anymore. So much junk. Stations either have to get creative or fill time with golds. Most are filling time with golds. It's hard to even DJ a school dance anymore with all new music. Nothing has that mass appeal it once had where everybody liked or knew this song or that song. It's all fragmented.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

Should point out, they're also playing This Love by Maroon 5. Nowdays you would consider them a Pop act. When that song was new, it was in the Rock or Rock-Pop category at your average CHR station. I'm not even sure if B96 played that song when it was new. Hot AC stations played it like crazy. As recent as a few months ago I heard it as a gold on 103.5, which played it constantly when it was new.

 

[tall_guy1]

I don't consider B96 to be CHR anymore. It's not even really entirely Rhythmic Gold. It's basically Hot AC with a rhythmic lean. Most of the new music they play is Pop. Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, Jonas Brothers, Morgan Wallen, Katy Perry, Lizzo, etc. Vast majority of that can be heard on Hot AC stations. The golds are Pop and Hip-Hop from the 2000s, some 90s. Mostly 2000s and 2010s. Rhythmic Hot AC seems to be a reasonable label for it.

There's little good new Top-40 anymore. So much junk. Stations either have to get creative or fill time with golds. Most are filling time with golds. It's hard to even DJ a school dance anymore with all new music. Nothing has that mass appeal it once had where everybody liked or knew this song or that song. It's all fragmented.

I wonder if TikTok did that, where so much music is catered to that?

 

[JeremyAndrews]

Spotify, TikTok. Music streaming in general. Things really went downhill after Apple Music launched in 2015. I had it from day 1 and I just realized how awful the new music they were promoting was. Anybody can go find anything now. They don’t need to make radio friendly hits as a result

 

[TheBigA]

On the Miami board, there's a discussion that WPOW, for decades a Rhythmic Top 40 station, has switched to Rhythmic, Gold-Leaning Top 40. And folks are saying it copied co-owned WBBM-FM B96 Chicago.

Similar but not the same. WPOW is more rhythmic than B96. IMO neither are Top 40, because their playlists are too big and play heavies around 50-60 spins a week. A typical CHR is more like 90-100, with a playlist around 150. There are similarities to WTDY, which is now labeled Hot AC.

The Miami thread says WPOW is only playing about 4 currents/recurrents an hour. The rest is 90s/00s/10s hits and rhythmic hits.

Depends on what you call a current. I count more than 4. By my definition, one third of the playlist is recurrent (2021-22). Only a handful of 90s.

 

[tall_guy1]

Spotify, TikTok. Music streaming in general. Things really went downhill after Apple Music launched in 2015. I had it from day 1 and I just realized how awful the new music they were promoting was. Anybody can go find anything now. They don’t need to make radio friendly hits as a result

That doesn't matter. Non radio friendly hits are good oftentimes. This current trend artists are following is not good though.

 

[101tm]

There’s so much more overlap between Hot AC and CHR because both now are targeting a similar audience and Hot AC has more material to pull from in the gold library. A consensus hit (“Flowers” or anything by Harry Styles, Ed Sheeran, Weeknd as an example) these days is going to smash on both CHR and hot AC.

IMO WPOW and WBBM-FM are both trying to grab listeners that remember their glory days (or later glory days) by playing a lot of the music they played when they were successful. Despite what people keep saying on the Philly board, what TDY has done is nothing like WPOW or WBBM-FM. TDY is more of a segue to a somewhat broad based hot AC. And of course that station doesn’t have much heritage to be proud of (or really ashamed of).

I’m not sure how these new directions for BBM or POW will do long term. It seems like a short term fix to a large problem to try to stop the bleeding. B was struggling before CHR started to have issues nationwide. I don’t think I’ve seen iHeart try this formula on any of their CHR’s, most have just reduced spin counts and added more recurrents or mass appeal golds from the last 20 years while still presenting themselves as CHR. That’s what Z100 has done, seems like others have followed.

 

[tall_guy1]

There’s so much more overlap between Hot AC and CHR because both now are targeting a similar audience and Hot AC has more material to pull from in the gold library. A consensus hit (“Flowers” or anything by Harry Styles, Ed Sheeran, Weeknd as an example) these days is going to smash on both CHR and hot AC.

IMO WPOW and WBBM-FM are both trying to grab listeners that remember their glory days (or later glory days) by playing a lot of the music they played when they were successful. Despite what people keep saying on the Philly board, what TDY has done is nothing like WPOW or WBBM-FM. TDY is more of a segue to a somewhat broad based hot AC. And of course that station doesn’t have much heritage to be proud of (or really ashamed of).

I’m not sure how these new directions for BBM or POW will do long term. It seems like a short term fix to a large problem to try to stop the bleeding. B was struggling before CHR started to have issues nationwide. I don’t think I’ve seen iHeart try this formula on any of their CHR’s, most have just reduced spin counts and added more recurrents or mass appeal golds from the last 20 years while still presenting themselves as CHR. That’s what Z100 has done, seems like others have followed.

It would seem a competing station could just take a few of their rhythmic oldies and play them with a narrower playlist (a mainstream CHR) and win.

 

[tall_guy1]

There’s so much more overlap between Hot AC and CHR because both now are targeting a similar audience and Hot AC has more material to pull from in the gold library. A consensus hit (“Flowers” or anything by Harry Styles, Ed Sheeran, Weeknd as an example) these days is going to smash on both CHR and hot AC.

IMO WPOW and WBBM-FM are both trying to grab listeners that remember their glory days (or later glory days) by playing a lot of the music they played when they were successful. Despite what people keep saying on the Philly board, what TDY has done is nothing like WPOW or WBBM-FM. TDY is more of a segue to a somewhat broad based hot AC. And of course that station doesn’t have much heritage to be proud of (or really ashamed of).

I’m not sure how these new directions for BBM or POW will do long term. It seems like a short term fix to a large problem to try to stop the bleeding. B was struggling before CHR started to have issues nationwide. I don’t think I’ve seen iHeart try this formula on any of their CHR’s, most have just reduced spin counts and added more recurrents or mass appeal golds from the last 20 years while still presenting themselves as CHR. That’s what Z100 has done, seems like others have followed.

Strangely, CHR is still winning against Hot Ac a lot of places.

 

[TheBigA]

I’m not sure how these new directions for BBM or POW will do long term.

A lot of that will depend on new releases.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

The Top-40 audience is older. Fewer and fewer people under 30 are listening to broadcast radio in general. They don't have as many younger listeners to reach. So they have to deal with people who are still listening. Once you get past a certain age, you stop liking most new music. That's usually in your 30s from what I can tell. Now that radio itself does not have as many younger listeners, it needs to cater to the ones who still listen. Upper end of the 18-34s and the middle of 25-54. Your 30 or 40 something.

In the case of B96, that's an audience in their 30s and 40s. They are pretty straight up with it. "The songs you've always loved, and the best of what's new" Basically radio for people in their 30s and 40s who might have listened to B96 in the 2000s when they were teenagers. They play songs for them, along with the biggest hits that are on both CHR and Hot AC.

That's what Hot AC did when it became a thing. The CHR audience grew out of new music, but might have liked some new music. So Hot AC took care of them. In the early 90s, a lot of people who listened to CHR in the 80s didn't like the harder rock being released nor did they like the Hip-Hop. So Hot AC played the golds and the hits that were not harder rock or Hip-hop. Now it's reaching an audience that might not mind Hip-Hop or Rock, but the first part still is a thing. They don't like most new music, but they like some.

 

[tall_guy1]

The Top-40 audience is older. Fewer and fewer people under 30 are listening to broadcast radio in general. They don't have as many younger listeners to reach. So they have to deal with people who are still listening. Once you get past a certain age, you stop liking most new music. That's usually in your 30s from what I can tell. Now that radio itself does not have as many younger listeners, it needs to cater to the ones who still listen. Upper end of the 18-34s and the middle of 25-54. Your 30 or 40 something.

In the case of B96, that's an audience in their 30s and 40s. They are pretty straight up with it. "The songs you've always loved, and the best of what's new" Basically radio for people in their 30s and 40s who might have listened to B96 in the 2000s when they were teenagers. They play songs for them, along with the biggest hits that are on both CHR and Hot AC. Since Hot AC is generally a 30+ format, a lot of the currents they play are basically the ones Hot AC stations play.

It is interesting older rhythmic material is now having an impact, when in catering to older generations, such stations played more rock/AC hits.

 

[Gregg.]

I'm always amazed when I see a breakdown of ratings according to demographics. So often a good Top 40 station does as well 25-54 as it does 18-34. Sometimes better!

Stations like Z100 NYC (#2 25-54), KIIS-FM LA (#2 25-54), KHKS Dallas (#2 25-54), WXKS-FM Boston (#2 25-54), have ratings just as good in the OLDEST demographic as it does in the youngest.

How many iHeart Top 40 stations have Elvis Duran in mornings (age 54) and Ryan Seacrest in middays (age 48)? They're not aiming at listeners in their teens or early 20s.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Strangely, CHR is still winning against Hot Ac a lot of places.

As I mentioned previously, a lot depends on whether the CHR and Hot AC are co-owned or competitors. In one case, they are positioned create a broad spectrum, in the other they compete for a large segment of listeners.

There is no law requiring stations in each format to play specific lists of songs in specific rotations.

 

[DavidEduardo]

I'm always amazed when I see a breakdown of ratings according to demographics. So often a good Top 40 station does as well 25-54 as it does 18-34. Sometimes better!

That is because most CHRs are targeting 25-44 women. Pieces of both demos.

How many iHeart Top 40 stations have Elvis Duran in mornings (age 54) and Ryan Seacrest in middays (age 48)? They're not aiming at listeners in their teens or early 20s.

For about 3 or 4 decades, CHR has targeted adult women, both 18-34 and 25-44.

 

[tall_guy1]

As I mentioned previously, a lot depends on whether the CHR and Hot AC are co-owned or competitors. In one case, they are positioned create a broad spectrum, in the other they compete for a large segment of listeners.

There is no law requiring stations in each format to play specific lists of songs in specific rotations.

That could be, though I don't see a competitive situation where a Hot AC is winning against a CHR they are battling against, though the conditions are definitely ripe for Hot AC stations to win if they go after the CHR.

 

[DavidEduardo]

The Top-40 audience is older. Fewer and fewer people under 30 are listening to broadcast radio in general. They don't have as many younger listeners to reach. So they have to deal with people who are still listening.

You are forgetting that what stations have to deal with is what advertisers are buying. It's much more about sales and sales budgets than who likes which songs.

 

[TheBigA]

How many iHeart Top 40 stations have Elvis Duran in mornings (age 54) and Ryan Seacrest in middays (age 48)? They're not aiming at listeners in their teens or early 20s.

It may be unfair to base the target of a show on the age of the top-line host. Both of the ones you mention have co-hosts and staffs that are much younger.

 

[DavidEduardo]

That could be, though I don't see a competitive situation where a Hot AC is winning against a CHR they are battling against, though the conditions are definitely ripe for Hot AC stations to win if they go after the CHR.

In such situations, the key element is targeting the demo that buyers are seeking the most often.

Radio's product is "listeners". Stations sell that product to advertisers. So stations program, in a major part, to get demos that can be sold.