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AM Stereo

Then we are to assume we can expect a certain population living near the transmitting antennas to glow in the dark?
If you think 1,000 kW on AM is a monster, you should know there are a few stations running 2,000 kW. For instance the Hungarian station on 540 uses five 400 kW Nautel units running in parallel to achieve the two megawatt power output.

The highest power I have seen listed on the AM band was 2,500 kW for a station in Russia, but I believe that was shut down or reduced some years before the final phaseout of virtually all AM stations in that country around 2014.
 
What took the "sparkle" out of the audio was the glut of terrible sounding radios with narrow frequency response that rolls off by 3,000 Hz.

In my opinion the FCC should have mandated much higher equipment standards and the NAB should have done a better job of lobbying for it. Same with AM Stereo and then with HD Radio. I know there were, and still are, free-market politics involved but when you let the market decide, the real deciders are the manufacturers who won't spend one cent more than they have to, and then you end up with a market full of crap.
Yep..the human ear doesn't hear that much energy above 10kHz..listening to FM and AM stereo stations with same music and decent receivers, you hardly notice the difference...less bass in AM stereo, usually cuts off below 100Hz..to prevent interference with the 25Hz pilot.
Here is audio from WLS off their Cquam air monitor..
 
Here is audio from WLS off their Cquam air monitor..

That sounds great from the stereo air monitor but the laid back processing probably sounds pretty flat on a typical AM radio.

Here's WLS recorded from an air monitor the 1970s. It had the same extended high frequency response but there's an absolute ton of harmonic distortion due to the analog compression / limiting being driven to the max, typical of the processing that helped give AM radio its "edgy" sound back then. The EQ is cranked up in the upper midrange to project well on an average AM radio at the time.
 
Yep..the human ear doesn't hear that much energy above 10kHz..listening to FM and AM stereo stations with same music and decent receivers, you hardly notice the difference...less bass in AM stereo, usually cuts off below 100Hz..to prevent interference with the 25Hz pilot.

If you can't hear frequencies above 10khz, you may want to get your hearing checked.
 
I hear well above 10 but if you knew anything about audio, the ear is NOT a flat response ...ever hear of C-weighted measuring? If you haven't, then you need to Google it..
 
I hear above 10 KHz. It's about 26 Khz, I think. I just don't hear below that, until you get down to about 5K.
It's a very weird frequency response thing. But, it explains some of the intermods.
 
I hear well above 10 but if you knew anything about audio, the ear is NOT a flat response ...ever hear of C-weighted measuring? If you haven't, then you need to Google it..
But you said: "The human ear doesn't hear that much energy above 10kHz." There was never a claim of flat response.
 
But you said: "The human ear doesn't hear that much energy above 10kHz." There was never a claim of flat response.
If you look at the energy in music, it's more below 10k than above. Hence the human ear does not hear much energy above 10...and normally it does not hear as well above 10 as it does below 10k anyway...I have my hearing checked regularly and the freq response charts have shown this to be true since my 20s.
Listening to an AM stereo vs FM stereo station, there is little perceivable difference to the average listener.
 
Listening to an AM stereo vs FM stereo station, there is little perceivable difference to the average listener.
That's absurd. The specifications of the two demodulated modulation methods alone shoot down that statement. Moreover, the actual (not revisionist-alternate history) indicate that back in the day, people moved to FM for music because of better quality.
 
I admit I’ve only heard a little AM stereo (CQUAM) in real life, and all in cars and pickups, but even though it sounded really good and dramatically better than ‘normal’ AM, it didn’t sound nearly as good as FM.

Driving a tractor, truck, combine, or whatever, I’d much rather have had AM stereo than regular AM. And also, I’d much rather have had FM than any AM, for music.

Can you tell that all our farm stuff only had AM radios?
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A station I worked at in the 1980's had C-QUAM and it sounded great. However, by 1988 they and other AM stations had to be NRSC-2 mask compliant. As I recall listening this rolled off some of the high end and sounded narrower and less bright.
 
A station I worked at in the 1980's had C-QUAM and it sounded great. However, by 1988 they and other AM stations had to be NRSC-2 mask compliant. As I recall listening this rolled off some of the high end and sounded narrower and less bright.
The NRSC 10 kHz audio bandwidth limit was not required until June 30th, 1990.
 
CKLW did not have bandwidth restrictions. As I recall, Ed Buterbaugh was in charge of widening the response of the Directional Antenna. There was an article in Billboard about it in about 1976. Maybe David can find the article. I haven't had much luck in searching for it. So it was before AM Stereo was in use there. They sounded great in Motorola AM Stereo in the 25 mV/m contour. I can't remember whether it was originally Motorola of if they converted it when it became the standard.

Just checked the Wikipedia article. CKLW was originally using the Harris AM Stereo system, and later modified it to Motorola. I know it involved a different pilot tone. Leonard Kahn discovered that if he put a Motorola Stereo Pilot on the Kahn system stations, the Kahn system was detectable in some semblance of Stereo by a Motorola Stereo radio. Motorola and the FCC put the kibosh on it.

"The Secret" Leonard Kahn talked about as I figured out from reading about Kahn's Full Carrier Compatible SSB in the 1960 NAB Handbook, showed that the sideband channel phase modulated the carrier. There were graphs and drawings in the article.

So L-R must have phase modulated the carrier when L .NE. R, in some amplitude and fashion, making it detectable when there was a pilot or faux pilot present. With Stereo, you had two vectors spinning in opposite directions. The sum of the vectors was L-R. See the article from NAB 1960. Kahn marketed his system as being independent sidebands for Left and Right channels, but it is clear that this is more complicated.
 
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Lets face it, both Kahn and Harris were superior to Motorola C-Quam. The only reason C-Quam was chosen is because Motorola had the pull and clout at the FCC to get it approved. If C-Quam had been sponsored by anyone other than Motorola, it would never have been chosen. I had three AM stereo stations and I speak from experience. C-Quam could sound very good during the day if you had a strong signal, but at night, forget it.
If you were within 3 miles of a well designed compensated antenna response curve Class IV/Class C station at Night, Motorola sounded great. With 8 mS/m conductivity and 1 kW from a quarter wave tower, this would be around 50 mV/m. I suspect that having a lower Q response electrical height would be better though. WSAM 1400 sounded great, for instance. Heard it playing "I Just Called To Say I Love You" by Saginaw's most famous native, as I traveled though within 3 miles on a Sony SRF-A100.
 
The NRSC 10 kHz audio bandwidth limit was not required until June 30th, 1990.
I wish folks would stop misusing the term audio "bandwidth". Bandwidth should be used to describe the I.F. Bandpass of a given AM tuner/receiver. Remember AM radio is Double Sideband. In the NRSC system, the maximum audio frequency permitted is 10 kHZ for the Upper Sideband and 10 kHz for the lower Sideband. Therefore the bandwidth is 20 kHz. Before NRSC the bandwidth was 30 kHz, allowing an audio frequency response identical to FM (15 kHz). AM radio sounds terrible today primarily because of receiver design , and only secondarily because of increased forms of interference. The AM on my absolutely horrible Kenwood car radio is hideous. The I.F. bandpass might be 3.5 kHz. You literally cannot hear the letter "S" at the end of words. This narrow bandpass may provide near absolute adjacent channel rejection, but destroys any semblance of pleasant listening. It makes all the stations sound the same - Bad! If this type of receiver were my only experience with AM I would wonder why it exists at all! Those of us that have been around the block, though, know very well that with a properly designed receiver with switchable bandwidths, coupled with a properly shaped I.F. bandpass, will sound almost the same as FM. This experience of course is based on the assumption that the station being listened to is broadcasting high fidelity audio.
 
I think it's quite clear that with double-sideband AM, the RF bandwidth is twice the maximum audio bandwidth.

And many receivers today are so narrow on AM because they're designed for the world market. The ITU in Europe limits AM stations there to a maximum audio bandwidth of 4.5 kHz, so many DSP-based tuners have a sharp audio cutoff on AM at exactly 4.5 kHz, even in North America, Australia, or Japan, where the allowed bandwidth is much greater.
 
I think it's quite clear that with double-sideband AM, the RF bandwidth is twice the maximum audio bandwidth.

And many receivers today are so narrow on AM because they're designed for the world market. The ITU in Europe limits AM stations there to a maximum audio bandwidth of 4.5 kHz, so many DSP-based tuners have a sharp audio cutoff on AM at exactly 4.5 kHz, even in North America, Australia, or Japan, where the allowed bandwidth is much greater.
This. And AM has been long relegated and optimized to being programmed for speaking not for music. Tuner manufacturers gave up on the idea of music on AM starting back in the late 70's early 80's. 'Can you hear Traveler's Information Service broadcasts? Done!'
 
Leonard Kahn tried to only seek out stations that already sounded good in Mono as I recall. Stations that already sounded good in Mono tended to sound better in Stereo than stations that sounded bad in Mono. I seem to remember that the vast majority of Kahn stations were nondirectional or DA-N.
 
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Leonard Kahn discovered that if he put a Motorola Stereo Pilot on the Kahn system stations, the Kahn system was detectable in some semblance of Stereo by a Motorola Stereo radio. Motorola and the FCC put the kibosh on it.

"The Secret" Leonard Kahn talked about as I figured out from reading about Kahn's Full Carrier Compatible SSB in the 1960 NAB Handbook, showed that the sideband channel phase modulated the carrier. There were graphs and drawings in the article.
Sorry for moving this thread off topic a bit, but I really wish Kahn would have been more open to speaking about some of his ideas, explaining more about some of his theories and maybe even teaching younger engineers and imparting knowledge. Unfortunately by the time I got into the radio business, Kahn had by that time become combative, defensive (maybe he was always that way to an extent and it just became more noticeable or was reported on by industry trades more often), he had basically stopped speaking with industry publications like Radio World, was smarting from the CAM-D vs. IBOC vs. C-QUAM battles and seemed suspicious of most everyone.

Sadly, he seemed like a brilliant guy, or someone who was definitely able and willing to look at things in a different way or think outside the box and had he been willing to teach others, the radio industry may have benefited.
 
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