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Will HD save radio?

Re: Not true at all.

> Hey Doc, since you have "blazed the HD trail", any chance of
> posting how you accomlpished this feat with 1 station? Did
> you low or high level combine, separate processors?
> Approximate cost involved to turn one station on. Feel free
> to go into as much detail as possible. I swear, I don't ever
> see us going HD. Some things our owner is just dead set
> against and dropping that much cash on something this new
> isn't something he is willing to do.
> But, in the event he decides it is time, I want to be armed
> with as much info as possible.
>

Well, I can tell you this:

As a Class B, the most common method is high-level combining. The other choices at that power level are another antenna or replacing youu current antenna with a dual-input (interleaved) model. I had considered dual-input antenna, but there are reports of intermod problems with these, so I took a pass. Adding antennas wasn't in the cards either. Soooo...

The two that I've done already, and the next one I'm starting are high level combined. In all cases we are using the Optimod 8500. Since those replace either 8400 or 8200's, I'm using Broadcast Tools switchers to make the old processors "hot backups" in case the 8500 fails.

All of the sites also have a redundant STL, so there is switching ahead of the processing to take care of that as well.

Keep in mind that in most cases with high-level combining, you'll need to update or improve your HVAC system, due to the added heat load from the HD transmitter.

In one case, I had a very large project. Due to space concerns, an older analog backup transmitter had to be removed to make space for the HD rig. In that case, we added a second RF switch to allow the new transmitter (Nautel V10) to do "double duty" as an HD and Analog backup rig. If the main goes down, I can switch the V10 around the injector, and use it as a 12kw analog backup rig, which is about 50% of our normal analog TPO.

Cost-wise, it's very hard to estimate. A large project can run in excess of $250,000, while a small one (read: 3 or 6KW using low-level) can be done for $100,000 or less, depending on need for processing and HVAC work. At the most basic configuration, you buy a Hybrid transmitter and processor, and you're done!

High-level, you'll need at least:

HD transmitter
IBOC Injector
Reject load
Processor

K9EZ can probably add to this. He actually had his on before mine! :)<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
Re: Boston HD radio

> >
> > Now that several stations in Cincinnati including WLW are
> > broadcasting in HD, I definatly plan to purchasing an HD
> > radio. Comparing the Radiosophy and Boston receivers, I
> like
> > the looks of the Boston radio. However, I read in another
> > post that the audio sounds too "tubby." I assume the
> poster
> > was saying the receiver lacks treble. Please give me a
> > report on that radio. Thanks in advance.
> >
>
> My opinion is that it sounds a bit "boxy", though I didn't
> find it objectionable. The radio has small speakers, so
> what you hear is a reflection of that. I considered
> "hacking" mine to add external speakers.
>
> Since this is a very subjective area, I can't give you a
> real in-depth report. All I can say is to be sure to get
> one from a place with a return policy so you can return it
> if you don't like it.
>

You got one of dem BAs??? And you didnt tell me???
 
Re: Not true at all.

> > Hey Doc, since you have "blazed the HD trail", any chance
> of
> > posting how you accomlpished this feat with 1 station? Did
>
> > you low or high level combine, separate processors?
> > Approximate cost involved to turn one station on. Feel
> free
> > to go into as much detail as possible. I swear, I don't
> ever
> > see us going HD. Some things our owner is just dead set
> > against and dropping that much cash on something this new
> > isn't something he is willing to do.
> > But, in the event he decides it is time, I want to be
> armed
> > with as much info as possible.
> >
>
> Well, I can tell you this:
>
> As a Class B, the most common method is high-level
> combining. The other choices at that power level are
> another antenna or replacing youu current antenna with a
> dual-input (interleaved) model. I had considered dual-input
> antenna, but there are reports of intermod problems with
> these, so I took a pass. Adding antennas wasn't in the
> cards either. Soooo...
>
> The two that I've done already, and the next one I'm
> starting are high level combined. In all cases we are using
> the Optimod 8500. Since those replace either 8400 or
> 8200's, I'm using Broadcast Tools switchers to make the old
> processors "hot backups" in case the 8500 fails.
>
> All of the sites also have a redundant STL, so there is
> switching ahead of the processing to take care of that as
> well.
>
> Keep in mind that in most cases with high-level combining,
> you'll need to update or improve your HVAC system, due to
> the added heat load from the HD transmitter.
>
> In one case, I had a very large project. Due to space
> concerns, an older analog backup transmitter had to be
> removed to make space for the HD rig. In that case, we
> added a second RF switch to allow the new transmitter
> (Nautel V10) to do "double duty" as an HD and Analog backup
> rig. If the main goes down, I can switch the V10 around the
> injector, and use it as a 12kw analog backup rig, which is
> about 50% of our normal analog TPO.
>
> Cost-wise, it's very hard to estimate. A large project can
> run in excess of $250,000, while a small one (read: 3 or 6KW
> using low-level) can be done for $100,000 or less, depending
> on need for processing and HVAC work. At the most basic
> configuration, you buy a Hybrid transmitter and processor,
> and you're done!
>
> High-level, you'll need at least:
>
> HD transmitter
> IBOC Injector
> Reject load
> Processor
>
> K9EZ can probably add to this. He actually had his on
> before mine! :)
>

We did a high level combine at one station. And yes the heat from the reject load is great. Imagine a 3kW heater sitting in an un air conditioned transmitter building. UGH. (yes we have AC on the way.)

The other station is SEPERATE antennas. We are/were using the backup antenna for the HD. It needs to be at least 70% of the height of the main antenna. We are going to change that to high level combine.

We have a few more stations coming up in the next couple of months. We are going to use the Continental All-in-one unit so we wont have any reject loads to speak of. Power usage should be less including AC.

I just turned up our HD2 station as well. The processing for HD2 is far different than for HD1. (Doc take a listen) I am running NO processing right now on HD2! It sounds far better than I imagined! I will go to some processing soon. But it will be very light processing.

For all of our stations we are running seperate processors for analog and digital and even a different processors for HD2.

All of our HD transmitters can be analog back ups.

There is a LOT to learn about doing HD! KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS!!! There are a lot of people out there that are willing to help. All of us engineers are in this together and need to help each other out.

How else can we help you?
 
Re: Boston HD radio

> > >
> > > Now that several stations in Cincinnati including WLW
> are
> > > broadcasting in HD, I definatly plan to purchasing an HD
>
> > > radio. Comparing the Radiosophy and Boston receivers, I
> > like
> > > the looks of the Boston radio. However, I read in
> another
> > > post that the audio sounds too "tubby." I assume the
> > poster
> > > was saying the receiver lacks treble. Please give me a
> > > report on that radio. Thanks in advance.
> > >
> >
> > My opinion is that it sounds a bit "boxy", though I didn't
>
> > find it objectionable. The radio has small speakers, so
> > what you hear is a reflection of that. I considered
> > "hacking" mine to add external speakers.
> >
> > Since this is a very subjective area, I can't give you a
> > real in-depth report. All I can say is to be sure to get
> > one from a place with a return policy so you can return it
>
> > if you don't like it.
> >
>
> You got one of dem BAs??? And you didnt tell me???
>

Sorry! Actually, we have 50 of them (we're going to give them away on the air).

Come on by and play!!<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
Re: Not true at all.

> We did a high level combine at one station. And yes the
> heat from the reject load is great. Imagine a 3kW heater
> sitting in an un air conditioned transmitter building. UGH.
> (yes we have AC on the way.)
>
> The other station is SEPERATE antennas. We are/were using
> the backup antenna for the HD. It needs to be at least 70%
> of the height of the main antenna. We are going to change
> that to high level combine.
>
> We have a few more stations coming up in the next couple of
> months. We are going to use the Continental All-in-one unit
> so we wont have any reject loads to speak of. Power usage
> should be less including AC.
>
> I just turned up our HD2 station as well. The processing
> for HD2 is far different than for HD1. (Doc take a listen)
> I am running NO processing right now on HD2! It sounds far
> better than I imagined! I will go to some processing soon.
> But it will be very light processing.
>
> For all of our stations we are running seperate processors
> for analog and digital and even a different processors for
> HD2.
>
> All of our HD transmitters can be analog back ups.
>
> There is a LOT to learn about doing HD! KEEP ASKING
> QUESTIONS!!! There are a lot of people out there that are
> willing to help. All of us engineers are in this together
> and need to help each other out.
>
> How else can we help you?
>

Let me correct myself. Most HD boxes can do analog, BUT if you use high-level combining, you need to bypass the injector to run analog backup, otherwise (in the case of a 10db injector) you wind up running 10KW out of your transmitter to make 1KW of power to your antenna! The Continental boxes look very promising for higher power operations. It's the first box to do 20+ KW low level.

As for processing, we will use separate processing for HD2 as well.

Side note to K9EZ...got your message the other day, your HD2 does sound very good! Is that extra delay from more encoding, or is that the STL? (For the benefit of others - K9EZ is running his main program on HD and HD2 for testing. It appears that not only is there an 8 second delay for HD which is normal, but an addtional delay for HD2). I've got my HD2 gear here, I just have to start playing with it!

:)<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
Re: Boston HD radio

> > > >
> > > > Now that several stations in Cincinnati including WLW
> > are
> > > > broadcasting in HD, I definatly plan to purchasing an
> HD
> >
> > > > radio. Comparing the Radiosophy and Boston receivers,
> I
> > > like
> > > > the looks of the Boston radio. However, I read in
> > another
> > > > post that the audio sounds too "tubby." I assume the
> > > poster
> > > > was saying the receiver lacks treble. Please give me a
>
> > > > report on that radio. Thanks in advance.
> > > >
> > >
> > > My opinion is that it sounds a bit "boxy", though I
> didn't
> >
> > > find it objectionable. The radio has small speakers, so
>
> > > what you hear is a reflection of that. I considered
> > > "hacking" mine to add external speakers.
> > >
> > > Since this is a very subjective area, I can't give you a
>
> > > real in-depth report. All I can say is to be sure to
> get
> > > one from a place with a return policy so you can return
> it
> >
> > > if you don't like it.
> > >
> >
> > You got one of dem BAs??? And you didnt tell me???
> >
>
> Sorry! Actually, we have 50 of them (we're going to give
> them away on the air).
>
> Come on by and play!!
>

Nice. I hope that the Albuquerque stations do that...I don't want to get a weekend job just to earn money for an HD radio! I am definitely considering it, though. It's weird how I could be so intent on getting an HD radio, though I've never heard it and I have no clue if it'll even cover me, even if I have a good antenna. I'm just hoping that making the investment would be beneficial to me...whenever I get the money.

I have about $90 saved up so far, but I still have a LONG way to go...
<P ID="signature">______________
A 16-year-old radio geek!</P>
 
I appreciate it!

>
> How else can we help you?


You already have! Since my situation is different (read an owner who won't adopt anytime soon), I don't see HD taking off quite as much as you 2 do. I still have the "it ain't gonna take off" mentality. Mainly 'cause I "can't see the trees thru the forest". I ask every engineer I can how they implemented it along with any advice they can/will give up. Sometimes I get repeats, other times (like both of your posts) I get something that makes me go "oh really". Such as the HD2 without processing. Our 1 class B has no AC in the building and the 2 CCA's along with the 2 racks take up much of the buildings room. For a mom and pop, I like to thing we are doing pretty good...Dig. STL's, 8400, new automation software, planned newsroom upgrade, solid production studios and a killer concert room. Click on the pic's area of www.wqmx.com to see it.
I can't gauge where the owners head is on HD, only to say we will not be doing HD anytime soon. All I can do is stay on top of it and learn from others but not a lot of stations being turned on around here to learn from. Hence why asked the question in the first place. Many thanks to both of you for the info given.
 
Hey, hold on...

> Sorry! Actually, we have 50 of them (we're going to give
> them away on the air).
>

Did you get them from a guy named "Bob"??
 
> So many posts about which stations are launching HD. Does
> the general public know, care or are they willing to buy the
> necessary equipment?

So far the answer is no. There are so few sources for IBUZ receivers and they're far more expensive than analog and satellite receivers. I take a monthly tour around New England to see who knows about or carried IBUZ receivers and have found no one who carries one. Best Buy carried one Kenwood HD headend but doesn't carry the tuner. People buy that headend and add one of the satellite services. Most salespeople no nothing about HD Radio.

Look around where you live. How many analog receivers do you own. Note the kinds of device it is. There are no iPod sized receivers. Are you willing to replace them all (expecting digital only in the distant future)? Retailers say $199 is the price point for car receivers to begin to move. What's the price poiunt for your $9 Wal-Mart radio?

Because of that, very few have any expetation that analog will go away in most of our lifetimes and interference will remain.

Rich
 
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