STOP FIDDLING WITH PART 15- YOUR TIME HAS ARRIVED

[WCWalker]

THANK YOU FOR THE MESSAGE COWBOY..

I completely forgot to mention this. The person wrote>

"Cost of commercial broadcast station may be $250,000 or more per year for 1,000 watts and a few employees. A commercial broadcaster will pay about $100,000 more per year in taxes and fees over
a non-com."


THE TRUTH IS, You can run a full power station for far less than this (I know a guy on Radio-Info that runs a full power for about 20k and makes a salary of 40 k ) & derive a nice salary at the same time. I think no matter how easy it gets for people to become owners, there will always be people that will have their reasons for not buying a radio station.
jos

Yes, it can be done pretty cheap if you know what you are doing. Clearly the key to keeping costs way down is to own and not rent your studio and office space and tower site. Leasing is costly and actually in some ways a real risk if a land issue should arise with the owner.

I do know that Bob Bittner of AM 730 in Bath, ME and AM 740 of Cambridge, MA runs his stations on a real shoe string budget and he gets by.

 

[Timewarp]

THANK YOU FOR THE MESSAGE COWBOY..

I completely forgot to mention this. The person wrote>

"Cost of commercial broadcast station may be $250,000 or more per year for 1,000 watts and a few employees. A commercial broadcaster will pay about $100,000 more per year in taxes and fees over
a non-com."


THE TRUTH IS, You can run a full power station for far less than this (I know a guy on Radio-Info that runs a full power for about 20k and makes a salary of 40 k ) & derive a nice salary at the same time. I think no matter how easy it gets for people to become owners, there will always be people that will have their reasons for not buying a radio station.
jos

Excuse me. I'm in Chicago. At this company we pay much higher taxes than that. These 940 and
941 payroll taxes are based on how much we pay our employees. You pay them no matter how much
you bill. If you are not paying this much, it means you don't pay your employees very well.

No, I have never done part 15. But, a Rangemaster here in Chicago might reach more people than
a full power out in the sticks. Thanks to a loophole in part 15.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

No, I have never done part 15. But, a Rangemaster here in Chicago might reach more people than
a full power out in the sticks. Thanks to a loophole in part 15.

O.K. I will defer to the superior intelligence found in Chicago. ;D

Explain for a dumb-butt down in the red clay hills of Georgia what the loophole is in part 15. :-\

 

[Tom Wells]

Not sure that we have any superior intelligence here in Chicago, but you do have to be pretty dang self-confident here to do well.
As I have been running a part 15 AM about 20 years, and experimented with many enhancements and tweaks, I'll venture the answer.
The density of a Chicago neighborhood puts many more listeners within earshot of a pipsqueak 100 mw signal.
If I can only get 1/2 mile in each direction, that's an awful lot of potential listeners.
My neighborhood is listed as having 28,848 people per square mile.
By accident my signal has nulls in the directions of least population, and is best toward the highest densities.
A full power stick in a rural area wold not have as many potential listeners.
The only "loophole" I've found is that there's no limit to making your RF ground more and more effective.
For me, that's been several ground rods, excellent RF grounding into the water lines, bonding to the incoming power feed ground,
salting the ground rods, and the good luck to be near a branching of the Chicago river.
I haven't tried elevating the transmittter and whip to roof level, but I suspect that would be an immense improvement,
due to RF currents and radiation from the "ground" lead, but that would be subject to interpretation and I don't need "trouble".

 

[Carmine5]

PLEASE STOP THE SKY IS FALLING SCENARIOS! 8)

I get it. Some people just want to play radio and not ever actually own a real radio station.

For every story of failure you provide me I can give you great stories of investing in radio. I know a guy who started with a few thousand dollars and was able to grow that from one puny little lousy full power station to a radio corporation worth many millions of dollars. Indeed, there are many such inspiring stories.

It seems whenever I post of great opportunity someone has to come back and rain on the parade. If you like at life this way, you will never get ahead... part of investing in radio and owning a radio station is the CLIMB...

One can complain about all the hours it requires to run a REAL Radio Station, but if you love it & it's in your heart, then you enjoy it... Trust Me there are many that do.. but if you don't I suspect you wouldn't be spending your time reading this message.

josh

RADIO - YOUR TIME IS NOW!

That's the point, Josh. If someone is in broadcasting just for the money then, yes, there are better, perhaps easier ways to make money. One guy on the "Business" board was bragging about how much more money he made as a funeral director then he did owning a radio station. Apparently, pickling corpses means as much to him as being in radio. He should stay in the funeral business.

Those who are in broadcasting are doing it because they love it. And, YES, you can make a good living in broadcasting despite the pitfalls of the business. I know of three AM station owners who are doing well. One guy who has a three station cluster in CA is actually rich. In all cases, these people are long established broadcasters who have little or no debt load on their properties.

However, I do think it's important to take a holistic view of broadcasting. It is no longer a case of just owning a radio or television station. One needs to think in terms of owning a media company; using the web and social networking in conjunction with radio or TV and offering multiple streams of content. It's more of a challenge this way but also more exciting.

c5

 

[Flying-Dutchman]

Unfortunately, not all frequencies are created equal. The FCC gave me CPs for Indianapolis and
Attica Indiana in the early 1990s. I found the frequencies, wrote the petitions for rulemaking,
filed legal comments, filed the 301 for the CPs, built the stations, and got the licenses. I was
able to build both these stations for far less then people were asking to sell built stations.

In Indy, I was able to bill 10 times what I could sell in Attica. Indy only required that I work
8 hour days. I could hire a large staff. I paid myself well.

In Attica, I worked 18 hour days, lived in my station and got paid very little. But, Attica was fun.
Less big egos to clash with. The people were warm and real. I got the red carpet welcome to the
town.

Now, I hope this county seat in Mississippi gets a station back. They deserve it.

But, it appears there is no translator that you could purchase at this time. The FCC has declared
that the next translator filing window will follow the next LPFM filing window. Someone else could
go FM before you.

Yes it's true that you must be willing to take risks to achieve success. And, life is like Chess.
The right move wins the game. Wrong move means checkmate.

 

[Prais]

"One guy on the "Business" board was bragging about how much more money he made as a funeral director then he did owning a radio station. Apparently, pickling corpses means as much to him as being in radio. He should stay in the funeral business."

Hey....
That's ME! I got out just for the money. Later, I gave alot of the money away, to my kids and the Church. I really hope it wasn't bragging, only telling my story. I hope you can do what I did and be this Blessed. God is good!

Radio helped, but why should I stay in, if someone would give me much MORE than I wanted?

I thought I would always be in radio, but being "retired" (not quite) is better.

I'm very happy. THAT'S what life is all about. The Dutchman knows.

I was a radio freak in Chicago when I was 11 - even "playong radio in my basement" with my Remco Caravelle (Google that) and Knight Kit transmitters

I owe it to surrounding myself with "smart people." and my own hard work.

All my dreams came true; dj, news, lots of sales, management, and ownership of 4 stations and multiple construction permits, IO owned 4 tower locations that I rented space for antennas on, and construction permits.

I had a partner - but he couldn't keep his mind on the job...he wanted women and booze, so I bought him out. It all started with a $12,500 (each) investment in 1973.

13 years in radio, 2 years in 2 mortuarys....and now at age 60, I'm in an even better position.

Radio was a means to an end. I had 27 people working for us. Those stations (an am and 3 fm's) today have about 7 employees.

The funeral business was just a MUCH "safer" investment that I was very good in, along with higher profit at the end.

I'm in business to MAKE MONEY, not to "play radio." I'm not stopping anbody from doing what they want.

PS to JOSH who said, "whenever I post of great opportunity someone has to come back and rain on the parade."

Josh, "one mans trash is another mans treausre." We each have "OUR OWN WAY" of doing things.
Peace!

 

[Carmine5]

"One guy on the "Business" board was bragging about how much more money he made as a funeral director then he did owning a radio station. Apparently, pickling corpses means as much to him as being in radio. He should stay in the funeral business."

Hey....
That's ME! I got out just for the money. Later, I gave alot of the money away, to my kids and the Church. I really hope it wasn't bragging, only telling my story. I hope you can do what I did and be this Blessed. God is good!

Radio helped, but why should I stay in, if someone would give me much MORE than I wanted?

Oh, so you're the culprit. Sorry about the terseness of my comments.

It's just that some people (apparently not you) will get into a business thinking they're going to make a killing, not have it pan out as they thought it would, get out of the business and then diss it. "You're wasting your time. Why, I made more money raising emus than I did in radio."

The fact is that certain businesses are just not a good match for some people or perhaps the community was not a good choice for a certain type of business as opposed to another type.

c5

 

[Prais]

Carmine the fifth,
If selling emu's would make easier money, I would have tried it.

I tend to carefully "overanalyze" everything. By the time I DO it - I'm absolutely positive. I was interested in radio since I was a kid and FOCUSED, made great friends, bought it and ran it.

Then one day in 1984, a doctor came into my office and wanted to buy 1 (of the 4 stations) for his brother..."so his brother wouldn't have to travel home every holiday."

When I got home and told this to my wife, she thought I was DRUNK and smelled my breath (hilarious because I don't drink). She knew all about our "blood sweat and tears" to get where we were.

By the time the doc signed the contract some time later, he bought all 4 stations, and my- wife and I were both VERY happy. Frankly, I don't care about much else.

There are days I miss it, but then I think of my life since then...and then I DON'T miss it any longer. No more getting up at 2:30am to sign on the place. I haven't set my alarm in a couple of years.

During the "radio days" (sorry, Woody) we tried to have children and it wasn't working. We sold the stations, and the wife was prego 3 months later.

"TIMING IS EVERYTHING."

 

[Carmine5]

During the "radio days" (sorry, Woody) we tried to have children and it wasn't working. We sold the stations, and the wife was prego 3 months later.

"TIMING IS EVERYTHING."

Indeed so!

 

[Prais]

Dragging this back to part 15....

One of my hobbies is running 4 part 15 stations; one that is Catholic programming. A few school kids run it from our Church. I am the advisor. It uses Wintrax and 2 cd changers. It has been working for nearly 3 years. Some ewtn on cd, lots of "Catholic" music, that I have obtained permission from the composers to play w/o cost, 12 hours in Spanish and 12 hours in English, including Grade School sports (2 8th grade sportscasters), Church services, "homework helper" (which is a daily live show) and more. The Pastor thinks "I'm a genius." Parents get all psyched that Junior is on the radio!

#2 that legally rebroadcasts #1 (together on a good day we LEGALLY go 5 miles with 2 rangemasters).

#3 at the "senior home" where my mom lives, with about a mile radius (2000 songs that are beautiful music 24/7, a computer w/ots automation, a weather radio that can air nws bulletins, a tone on the hour, and USA Network news as well as a few usa features. The old folks love it.

#4 is 2000 oldies, jingles and liners from my home, run by ots,with about a mile radius range, from a 3rd Rangemaster.

The stations are all above 1600 and when we are off, there is NO signal to be heard.

The 4 stations require about 90 minutes of work, minimum, every week. I'm usually done by 9am Saturday morning.

I can LISTEN to all of the stations and make some adjustments (via software) from my home using PC Anywhere.

Don't KID YOURSELF about part 15. Unless the Rangemasters are spaced correctly and "networked" this set up is ok, but little more than an elaborate TOY, but it's fun. There is plenty of intereference and nighttime coverage is difficult.

I also operate a 24 hour automated closed circuit tv station at a nursing home. It plays 2 Sony 300 disk dvd players, full of old PUBLIC DOMAIN movies and programs. I have a collection of about 2000 hours of stuff, and always expanding. I'm 20 days ahead programming this, today.

 

[Flying-Dutchman]

Prais
Those are some wonderful examples of the usefulness of part 15 AM. I think more citizens
and community groups doing low power AM could actually breathe some new life into what many
see as a dying band.
Also, I'd like to see the restrictions on ground wires and antenna length removed to make part 15
better.

 

[audioguy]

Yes, I'm hoping to get the tour of the Prais broadcasting network next summer, perhaps!

Meanwhile, does anyone here happen to know of a source for a good used field intensity meter such as the FIM-41 or similar? I wish I had bought one when I was in college-- they cost a lot less then! But of course, back then I didn't have the money...

 

[LibertyNT]

Yes, I'm hoping to get the tour of the Prais broadcasting network next summer, perhaps!

Meanwhile, does anyone here happen to know of a source for a good used field intensity meter such as the FIM-41 or similar? I wish I had bought one when I was in college-- they cost a lot less then! But of course, back then I didn't have the money...

IM sure you can get them at a broadcasting store online.
Although I wouldnt really know as ive never thought of buying one
since they dont work with part 15 radio
(at least thats what i've heard and been led to believe)

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

IM sure you can get them at a broadcasting store online.
Although I wouldnt really know as ive never thought of buying one
since they dont work with part 15 radio
(at least thats what i've heard and been led to believe)

Why do you think it wouldn't work with part 15. A "FIM" (Field Intensity Meter) measure the strength of the signal coming out of your transmitter/antenna set-up. If it doesn't work.... that means you have no signal.

 

[Tom Wells]

IM sure you can get them at a broadcasting store online.
Although I wouldnt really know as ive never thought of buying one
since they dont work with part 15 radio
(at least thats what i've heard and been led to believe)

Why do you think it wouldn't work with part 15. A "FIM" (Field Intensity Meter) measure the strength of the signal coming out of your transmitter/antenna set-up. If it doesn't work.... that means you have no signal.

This refers to another thread maybe a year ago where >how near is the "near field"< was thouroughly thrashed in dicsussion.
So many variables to be considered led to some conclusion that for Pt 15 AM needs some standard measurement distance defined as does regular AM BC,
to ensure that no anomalies in the near field skew the measurement. In other words, getting out to a "normalized" field.
Within the near field too few part 15 AMs would have perfectly omni patterns, so unless a true field proof test on many compass points were taken,
the measurements may be of questionable merit. But the meter would show relative output certainly, and be useful for tuning up.

 

[rfry]

RE: Part 15 AM Field Intensity Measurement

Within its specifications, an FIM-41 or similar device is easily capable of measuring the field intensity produced by any source, including an AM setup that is functionally compliant with Part 15.219.

As proof of the above, the link below shows real-world field intensity measurements along a radial from a 1680 kHz radiator. Groundwave field intensities of around 400 microvolts/meter were measured at a distance of about 18 kilometers from the transmit antenna. The meter used was an FIM-41.

Measurements should be taken in the far field of the antenna. According to antenna engineering textbooks, the far field becomes the dominant component of antenna radiation at wavelength distances from the radiator greater than 1/(2*pi), or about 0.16 wavelengths. The near-field components become negligible at distances greater than about 1/2 wavelength from a single radiator, compared to the far field component.

At distances up to about 250 meters (820 feet), even a ground-mounted 1650 kHz transmit system functionally compliant with Part 15.219 can produce groundwave field intensities exceeding 400 microvolts/meter in the far field. Of course, the distance to the 400 microvolt/meter field is considerably greater from elevated "Part 15" systems with radiating ground conductors.

If an FIM-41 can accurately measure a 400 microvolt/meter field as shown in the link (and it can), then it also can do it if that field was produced by a Part 15 setup. The only difference is that the distance to that field will be considerably less with the Part 15 setup.

However it is true that in most cases outside of a screen room, field intensity measurements 30 meters from the antenna are not practical to show compliance with 15.209, because in most locations the permissible field intensity allowed under 15.209 is masked by r-f noise and/or interference at the point of measurement.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h85/rfry-100/MWFieldIntensityMeasurement.jpg
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