Since The Digital TV Switch FCC Should Allow Some Type Of Pirate Radio

[DJboutit3]

Now that tv stations have gone digital & in the next few yrs radio stations will go digital FCC should allow pirate radio. Here is what I think the FCC should allow 85.1 to 87.5 mhz 20w to 40w or more of power. Since Broadcast TV is now digit interferance should be a thing of the past and most house holds had interferance with there TVs, so pirate radio will not have this problem any more time for FCC to allow pirate radio

 

[LibertyNT]

& in the next few yrs radio stations will go digital FCC should allow pirate radio

Well Sounds like a Good Idea but...
Part 15 is NOT Pirate Radio. Personally i think they should Open Up The Former Vhf-Low Channels
for Part 15 use. secondly
Radio Will NEVER and I mean NEVER go all Digital. Not with this Flawed IBOC system.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

To be picky about semantics: If the FCC allows something, then it ceases to be piracy and becomes legitimate.

Right now LPFM may be the closest thing to what answers to the call of your dream. If they open up an application window, will you be ready to raise your Jolly Roger and rweach for a brass ring?

 

[w9wi]

Now that tv stations have gone digital & in the next few yrs radio stations will go digital FCC should allow pirate radio. Here is what I think the FCC should allow 85.1 to 87.5 mhz 20w to 40w or more of power. Since Broadcast TV is now digit interferance should be a thing of the past and most house holds had interferance with there TVs, so pirate radio will not have this problem any more time for FCC to allow pirate radio

TV going digital doesn't eliminate interference. It just means you won't see it -- if it's strong enough TV reception will just cease altogether.

Radio stations operating between 85.1 and 87.5MHz will make it impossible for viewers near the radio station to receive digital TV stations on channel 6. Low-power analog TV stations also continue to operate on channel 6; these too would receive severe interference from radio stations in the 85.1-87.5MHz band.

Some of the markets that would be affected include Philadelphia, Albany, NYC, Chicago, Los Angeles, and Birmingham.

 

[edarmsttrong]

What about utilizing a Digital TV station to distribute your programming? Many have 'left over' bandwidth, and it could be used for audio. (Kinda like SAPs worked, but AC-3 is digital, and even supports Dolby surround.)

For instance, tune a Digital TV to a DTV channel, and select an AC-3 'sub-channel' (Many stations use a 'sub-channel' for Spanish lanquage program audio.) Or, create a whole other sub-DTV channel for the audio, complete with title - artist display (Kinda like the cable Music Choice.)

I know, you lose the mobile market, but many people have killer home theater systems these days!

There are some logistical considerations, such as agreements with TV stations, equipment, etc. It could be a challenge, but not impossible to do.

If things are done right, the audio could be a completely digital path from your studio to the listener.

I'm just curious what people think about this approach... 8)

 

[LibertyNT]

What about utilizing a Digital TV station to distribute your programming? Many have 'left over' bandwidth, and it could be used for audio. (Kinda like SAPs worked, but AC-3 is digital, and even supports Dolby surround.)

For instance, tune a Digital TV to a DTV channel, and select an AC-3 'sub-channel' (Many stations use a 'sub-channel' for Spanish lanquage program audio.) Or, create a whole other sub-DTV channel for the audio, complete with title - artist display (Kinda like the cable Music Choice.)

I know, you lose the mobile market, but many people have killer home theater systems these days!

There are some logistical considerations, such as agreements with TV stations, equipment, etc. It could be a challenge, but not impossible to do.

If things are done right, the audio could be a completely digital path from your studio to the listener.

I'm just curious what people think about this approach... 8)

I'm surprised no one has done this.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

What about utilizing a Digital TV station to distribute your programming? Many have 'left over' bandwidth, and it could be used for audio. (Kinda like SAPs worked, but AC-3 is digital, and even supports Dolby surround.)

// snip //

I know, you lose the mobile market, but many people have killer home theater systems these days!

There are some logistical considerations, such as agreements with TV stations, equipment, etc. It could be a challenge, but not impossible to do.

I'm surprised no one has done this.

I haven't checked their website for several months, but an LPFM in the Nashville, TN area has done some innovative things in this direction. To find an open frequency that had to locate the Low Power FM way out past the suburbs in an almost rural area where 100 watts could NOT reach into the heart of Nashville. When I checked them out they were streaming on the web, using a sub carrier on an FM, and piggy-backing on a TV channel.

Now. To comment on the idea that the FCC should enable, condone, work with "pirates"....

Let's say you are a merchant in a county seat town. You have brought your building up to date to meet all the city codes on electrical safety, plumbing, etc. You have spent money following Federal guidelines for access for the disabled. You pay significant taxes to your city and county so you have have police protection, fire protection, and other services. You agreed to voluntarily pay fees to an improvement district so the sidewalks dating back to the 1930s could be replaced with brick pavers, shrubs along the curb and benches for shopper to sit on. You spend a bit more on advertising than you feel is necessary for your own store, but as part of the "community of merchants" you spend the money to keep your market place viable rather than have your residents drive 25 miles to the shopping center at the edge of the nearby big city.

Then comes this yay-hoo from 60 miles away with some produce which may or may not be homegrown, backs his pick-up into a parking space and starts selling his produce just two doors down from the local grocery store. The tax-paying merchants all come out and stare at the guy. Where is your peddlers permit? Do you have liability insurance like we do in case someone trips over the baskets of green beans you have set on the public sidewalk. We are going to call the police and ask them to enforce city laws. You can just follow the same rules the rest of us do!

A tomato and watermelon peddler on mail street with no rules. Pirates running non-regulated, not permitted transmitters. Are they two of a kind?

 

[One Who Knows]

Those of you who know a little bit about the actual history of radio would know that in the industry's earliest days, there were no regulations. Stations were allowed to just come on the air and transmit whereever they wanted at whatever power they could come up with for the time (which usually wasn't that much).

The AM/Standard Broadcast Band became an absolute mess. Stations interfering with other stations. And the Federal Radio Commission was born to fix it. Their first move? Shut off about 150 stations to "clear" the band.

If a "pirate" band were to actually happen, I would suspect it wouldn't be long before it would be about as listenable as, let's say...CB Channel 19 is today. And, since "pirate mentality" would probably rule, how long would it be before the 20-40 watt "rule" would be ignored?

 

[Bongwater]

Those of you who know a little bit about the actual history of radio would know that in the industry's earliest days, there were no regulations. Stations were allowed to just come on the air and transmit whereever they wanted at whatever power they could come up with for the time (which usually wasn't that much).

The AM/Standard Broadcast Band became an absolute mess. Stations interfering with other stations. And the Federal Radio Commission was born to fix it. Their first move? Shut off about 150 stations to "clear" the band.

If a "pirate" band were to actually happen, I would suspect it wouldn't be long before it would be about as listenable as, let's say...CB Channel 19 is today. And, since "pirate mentality" would probably rule, how long would it be before the 20-40 watt "rule" would be ignored?

Well first, if we're going down to the 85.1 - 87.5 band, there'd be no point in even broadcasting until there were radios to RECEIVE it. I personally believe we need to expand the FM band down to 76 MHz (as in Japan), so at 76-108 MHz, there should be enough room for everybody (but then again, somebody once thought a few city blocks on a muddy island was enough for everybody in New York City.)

Secondly, you need SOME regulation. While most pirates I know of are actually pretty responsible (in spite of being....well, pirates) and don't go beyond a few watts, there will be those who are going to really push it as far as they can go. If anyone with enough $$$ can buy a 100,000 watt blaster off eBay, With no rules holding them back, they'll do it without a second thought.

I don't see the problem with a maximum of 5 watts and some antenna height restrictions with second adjacent channel spacing. Trust me, it ain't gonna be no contest between 100,000 watt stations with transmitters high up somewhere 0.4 MHz down and/or up the dial and a 5 watter somewhere down below in between.

However, distance spacing is something to be considered also. And with FM, that's a headache because EVERYBODY wants to be on FM. Then there's the digital factor. Someday, not in the IMMEDIATE future, but someday within our lifetime, radio WILL be ALL digital. I don't know of many IBOC equipped LPFMs (are there ANY out there?) right now, but I know one day, the FCC will have to either make IBOC open source or make manufacturers also include DRM decoding in new radios because something's gotta give. IBOC is out of reach and just out of the question for most LPFMs and Part 15 FM devices.

I think eventually, AM will be abandoned and that can be used as a LOCAL radio band. At lower power levels than your current graveyard frequencies, the nighttime noise shouldn't be too bad and I don't see as many AM broadcasters as I would FM. AM Stereo should be looked at again because IBOC doesn't work at all very well on AM.


My $2.00 worth.....

 

[Darth_vader]

There are radios that can receive 85-88 MHz. In fact, even if you don't have a TV audio radio like that, you might still receive it if you are lucky enough to come across a radio with significant overtuning. My Grampa's Pioneer stereo I mentioned in another thread is one such rig--I have heard KRCW-LP's (channel 5) audio regularly on it!

About the overpopulation thing: remember Bongwater, someone not too far away from where you are based once felt that 640 kilobytes of RAM should be more than enough for everything! (He also thought integrating a web browser into your desktop was a wonderful idea, too, but.........)


[size=8pt]>> EDARMSTTRONG: What about utilizing a Digital TV station to distribute your programming? Many have 'left over' bandwidth, and it could be used for audio. (Kinda like SAPs worked, but AC-3 is digital, and even supports Dolby surround.) For instance, tune a Digital TV to a DTV channel, and select an AC-3 'sub-channel' (Many stations use a 'sub-channel' for Spanish lanquage program audio.) Or, create a whole other sub-DTV channel for the audio, complete with title - artist display (Kinda like the cable Music Choice.) .... If things are done right, the audio could be a completely digital path from your studio to the listener.

>> LIBERTYNT: I'm surprised no one has done this.

OPB is already doing it. They have a subchannel set aside for this purpose, usually their fourth minor (e.g. 10-04). You have KOPB-FM simulcast on the main audio channel, press your "Audio Select" key and hear the "OPB Music" simulcast on the second. ("OPB Music", incidentally, is what they also transmit on KOPB's secondary IBAC channel. This is a simulcast of it, but with way higher fidelity. ;o)

What OPB isn't doing is the billboard display like "edarmsttrong" mentioned above--they instead transmit a looping "slideshow" of photographs and a card listing all the OPB stations and translators in the state. In fact, I can't imagine how something like a "Music Choice"-like display would be practical if you have several different programmes on several different audio channels--unless you display all on the screen simultaneously. Might be hard to read on smaller displays, and (of course) depending on the font you use, you might not have room for cover art, ads or whatever else you'd want to display.............

Now, what I am definitely wondering is: would it be legal to feed a translator off an ATSC audio stream (OPB, for example)? Surely the FCC would have kittens about this, but what if......??

 

[mattthepm]

I haven't checked their website for several months, but an LPFM in the Nashville, TN area has done some innovative things in this direction. To find an open frequency that had to locate the Low Power FM way out past the suburbs in an almost rural area where 100 watts could NOT reach into the heart of Nashville. When I checked them out they were streaming on the web, using a sub carrier on an FM, and piggy-backing on a TV channel.

Yep, WRFN, Radio Free Nashville (the LPFM you are referring to), has simulcast it's signal on one of the local community access TV SAP channels for almost two years now. It's a good arrangement with another community organization.

RFN recently simulcast it's signal on WBUZ 102.9's FMeXtra channel as well. Due to some connectivity issues, that project is on hold at the moment.

And yes, RFN is on the web with mp3 and AAC+ streams (www.radiofreenashville.org).

-mattthepm
Radio Free Nashville