Licensed Legitimacy

[radioboy]

In a different thread here on the Radio-Info Community Radio forum, Goat Rodeo Cowboy brought up something that
I'm now kind of curious about.

In a post regarding LPFM's he said, in part:

"It is perceived that having an FCC license makes your on-line stream more legitimate than a "pure-play"
on-line broadcaster."

This is something that I have been wrestling with. I have had an online streming station since 2001
and added the Part 15 AM to it in 2003. For all practical purposes, it is fully licensed and costs money to operate.
Until recently, it generally earned enough revenue to break even, although I think my wife would be happy if I could somehow make a living doing ANYTHING at this point.

Yet, somehow, I have the idea that if I could get a licensed radio station, it would be a "real" station then.

I have been brainstorming a possible LPFM start-up. However, because our income is substantially less than most people, I'm very hesitant to get into the "obtaining a license" process again.

I guess it boils down to what we think a "real" radio station is, doesn't it?

Is a pure-play Internet streaming/Part 15 station a legitimate radio station?

Curious about what you guys think..

 

[Nostalgia]

Alan,
Dont feel alone, I share yours and Goat Rodea Cowboys concerns. Reading your posts I think all three of us got into radio, lets just say before the internet . With that assumption I think that even though we all embrace the new technology of part 15, streaming, ect. we were brought up to feel that you need glowing tubes and some steel out in tbe back 40 to be a "real" radio station, not to mention that piece of paper on the wall. It may be just a generational thing, but it is our generation! And as if to drive the point home, try buying a music library from TM or jingle package and you will see the dreaded: "for licensed radio stations only".

Like you I enjoy my part 15 station, dabble with streaming, and do my 3 hour oldies show on a small local AM while thinking of all the great stuff I would do it I owned the place! I came close to buying one a couple of years ago. Now there are so many stations for sale, its too bad all of the people on this board who have expressed a desire for station ownership live all over creation. Guys like you and Mark Tillery up in N FL, Goat in GA I think, me down here in Tampa Bay, all experienced, talented guys with a dream, but no big $$!

I am not sure we would be happy with a LPFM though. Living the dream is one thing, food on the table is another. And unless you live in a very special community where people will step up and put money in the collection jar and bring you a couple of chickens now and then, I think it would be more of a financial drain than your Part 15! Like I said elsewhere on this board, I thought about a LPFM until I met a man who had a LPFM!

 

[radioboy]

Hey Nostalgia,

Thanks for your comments.

My first day on the air was October 12, 1979! Good grief, almost 30 years ago!

I'm actually not sure there's a frequency around for an LPFM. There's an LPFM licensed to a neighboring county
(WHTR-LP) in Wakulla that actually has been silent since 2006. I went looking for them way back as I thought I'd just volunteer to help them out, only to discover no station, not even an appearance of a tower. Definitely no on-air signal.
But it's still licensed. Even the corporation has been dissolved by the state.

It'd probably be easier to buy a fishing pole and forget it all..but I'd get too bored!

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

we were brought up to feel that you need glowing tubes and some steel out in tbe back 40 to be a "real" radio station, not to mention that piece of paper on the wall. It may be just a generational thing, but it is our generation!

I can get past that part. Yes, there is something almost "spiritual" about sliding in next to a couple of turntables and having a feeling that the tall tower out back is somehow standing guard of us and providing safety and stability.

In my original post which Alan referred to, I guess I am more concerned how the community and customers see us. Will they avoid listening to us because they perceived we are not "real".... we are only doing something akin to or a step below karaoke at the neighborhood bar? If I call the mayor and ask for an interview, will he take me seriously? Does being able to say: "And we have an FCC license" really do anything for us?"

Does it change how we would plan programming, knowing that some people are fine with the Internet only operation, while other people think of us as "children just play house and tea parties." And if it does make a difference, how do we determine what is different about the programming that an Internet-only listener expects compared to a listener who demands the "perception of legitimacy" that the FCC imprimatur supposedly gives.

I don't want to be peddling popcorn when we should be trying to sell peanuts!

 

[quadraphonic]

I think you are "legitimate" to the people you can reach/inform/entertain/provide services for. And that's what matters, finding enough of them to make it work, whether you're licensed or not.
They just need to know that you are reaching them and their community [people like them however you market it], informing them and their community, entertaining them and their community, or providing services for them and their community in a professional, "legitimate" manner.

I don't think that a lot of people have preconceived notions about whether or not a station is "legitimate" or not, because the vast majority don't give stations outside the ones that reach them and their community much thought. Before that, you're not "legitimate or illegitimate" you don't even exist to them.

They might not have heard of you before you go visit them, but then again, that's the same opening obstacle that 35 other licensed, "official" "legitimate" radio stations in a typical market out there would probably face too.

 

[quadraphonic]

The more I think about it, the more it seems like being on AM would make most stations "illegitimate" in lots of minds, because most people don't even know they have an AM band. Maybe that would be the biggest initial hurdle of "legitimacy" to say "Hi, I'm from AM 1520" instead of some more-familiar FM frequency? But then again, that should be conquered by reaching/informing/entertaining/providing services for your listeners.

 

[Nostalgia]

GRC,
I think I may have focused on a couple of things Alan said that made me think he was worried rather than what others thought about this subject. Specifically he said "I guess it boils down to what we think a "real" radio station is, doesn't it?" My comments were addressed to that point of view.

As for what others think, that is a different story. There are alternative media outlets springing up everywhere. I doubt that the mayor would differentiate between a reporter from the local weekly community shopper newspaper or the big daily as long as the reporter was asking intelligent questions about the topic at hand. Nobody licenses them. If you put together a local station that doesnt sound like you are doing it in your basement (and thats not hard to do with todays technology) and present your product in a professional manner I dont think anyone is going to notice or care. Beware: your competition will be the first to point out any little issues like the absence of a "license" but I believe that if you act professional you will be treated as a professional. You are part of the "new media", embrace it and run with it Mr Cowboy!!

And Alan, you youngster, I hit the airwaves in 1964 just minutes after my voice changed ;D

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

GRC,
I think I may have focused on a couple of things Alan said that made me think he was worried rather than what others thought about this subject. Specifically he said "I guess it boils down to what we think a "real" radio station is, doesn't it?" My comments were addressed to that point of view.

Point well taken. My first "touch and feel" for broadcasting was to produce a weekly program on a college campus that was on a traditional local radio station. It was a church-related college and was a major "preacher factory" for the church group. This program involved letting student would-be ministers get a feel for practicing their intended trade on the local radio station. I learned real quickly.... do not provide a desk and a mic on the desk! Their image of delivering sermons was that a real preacher STOOD while sermonizing and it wasn't going to be any other way!

Those of us old enough to have worked in old "traditional" radio may need our own crutches of some sort to get into the right frame of mind.

Maybe some of us need to visit the nearest psychologist about some of these issues. <g>

Now, if were having a contest here.... I think it was the first week of June 1956 that I first threw the mic switch in the control room of a "traditional" radio station.... and I'm hopeful that any day now my voice will finally change.

 

[Gatekeeper007]

I tell you running an LPFM station as it's problems money wise. As for beening seen as a real station some will say no dought about it while others will say only a commerical station with miles and miles and miles of range are real, i guess it's all how you look at it. One things for sure it takes money to operate and stay on the air in at least one form or another which the FCC is not quit sure what form that is exactly. We have WLRE-LPFM on the air since 2001 first on 105.5 FM and now on 92.9 FM with the help of two translators 96.3 and 98.7 FM since 2003-2006 and still the major complaint from listeners is our station needs more range, at least they love the station and I wouldn't trade that for anything. Boy I wish somebody here in South Carolina would give their time and talant to help out but that just doesn't seem to happen much here.

 

[wordensong]

"Audience" defines legitimacy

Hi gang,

I don't know the backstory with all the posters in this thread, but I'd like to suggest a single factor to determine legitimacy.

If you offer interesting, fun, high-quality, entertaining, thought-provoking content to a sufficiently large number of households (dorms, whatever) you will get some listeners. In advertising the equation for years has been, "If you entertain me or make me think, I will listen." Your signal must have enough of a footprint to reach the pool of listeners with a level of quality that is on-par with licensed stations. And you must get the word out concerning your station using every tool you can. Because 'legitimacy' (as it's being used in this thread) is based on one thing only -- audience. (Some would argue that income is also required. I'd say that [for me] a 'successful' station is one that has an audience *and* income, but a legitimate station only needs an audience.)

It is totally reasonable to define a pure-play Internet station as legitimate. Check out http://www.BrandywineRadio.com is you want to hear one in action. (No, I'm not affiliated in any way -- just a fan.) They have an audience; they have income; they are legitimate.

I know, I know... "Most Part 15 'broadcasters' aren't in it for the money." But to those that are worrying about being perceived as legitimate, you're looking for something -- at the very least, you're looking for an audience. And if you have an audience, would it be a disservice to offer them some quality advertising, or to announce who is sponsoring this half-hour of operation? Wouldn't listeners want to help those who are helping the station they love? Could be.

But it takes an audience first. Quality programming with a quality signal won't do it alone. It takes endless, multi-dimensional marketing to get folks to tune in that first time, regardless of whether it's a Part 15 broadcasting or a streaming station. A station license means nothing without an audience. Same for all the iron.

Thanks, everyone, for offering your insights and help here at Radio-Info and other Part 15 forums. All the best from Delaware,

Steve

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Wordenson:
Excellent information in your post. Thinking back through this post, let me suggest that we have used the words legitimate and legitimacy in at least two ways.

You have focused on what is the most common and legitimate use of the word: something legal, something authentic, something correct and proper, something one should have no embarrassment about. Under this meaning of the words, LPFM, Part 15, Internet streaming are ALL legitimate (legal, authentic) ways to deliver sound, spoken word, music content.

Others may disagree with me but the original title and question: "Licensed Legitimacy" focuses on another way to use the work "legitimacy". People who buy advertising to support their retail venture look upon some forms of advertising as very traditional, proven, quantifiable. They know there are other ways to spend advertising dollars that may be considered experimental, not yet fully proven, suitable only for niche markets, or appropriate for "goodwill" and relationship building. Some of the second group would include School Yearbook Advertising, a sign on the fence at the Little League Park, a "compliments of xxx" ad in a special section in the local paper on "history of the County" or "Newcomers Reference Section". The second group might also include t-shirts with a company logo, coffee mugs with a company logo, and calendars. All of them are legal. But in the minds of many advertisers, not something you use as your bread-and-butter bring-me-a-customer-through-the-door-this-week kind of advertising.

The original question had nothing to do with the traditional legitimacy meaning legal, authentic, proper and lacking in embarrassment. I think everyone who posted here agrees that audio streaming and Part 15 meet these definitions. The question raised is about the PERCEPTION, the attitudes held by people who are prospective advertisers or "funders" of these alternate methods of distributing audio. Will they look upon LPFM, Part 15 and Internet Streaming as simply novelties that you might include in your budget almost like a charity. (Think of High School Yearbook Advertising.) The original question was something on this order: (my paraphrase) If I operate an Internet streaming programming operation which I refer to as Internet-only radio, and I have a really hard time selling advertising (remember, ALL forms of advertising have difficulty selling) would my prospective advertisers look upon me as having MORE LEGITIMACY (think mainstream, proven) if I acquired an LPFM which come with a license from the FCC.

Probably the BIG question is: Would I as the seller of advertising be more confident in my sales presentation if I know that license was hanging on the wall of my studio? After all, the art of selling contains a lot of psychological content.

 

[Timewarp]

A license from the FCC gives you a right to use a frequency. No license means
no protection or rights. Any neighbor can say my part 15 device is bothering
them and ask me to shut it off.

If a low power licensed station is interfering with someone's reception, this
is that someone's tough luck. Not so, with unlicensed operations.

A 100 watt LPFM will overload receivers for one half mile. If a part 15er is
overloading radios at this distance, it is not part 15 and is called harmful
interference by the FCC.

LPFM is far superior to part 15 AM. But, you must have an open LPFM channel
to apply and use it. There are many areas where part 15 AM is your only bet.

And Yes, even hobby radio is about money. You need $5,000 for equipment.
You must know someone who knows how to file with the FCC. Even if the station
is in your spare bedroom, you need a couple hundred extra bucks per month to
pay all the fees and electric bill.

Heck, some spend more on their boats!

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

If a low power licensed station is interfering with someone's reception, this
is that someone's tough luck. Not so, with unlicensed operations.

That's what the owners of licensed stations will tell complaining neighbors. The station may be required to prove that it is operating within it's licensed power and is not emitting signal that violate technical standards.

A 100 watt LPFM will overload receivers for one half mile. If a part 15er is
overloading radios at this distance, it is not part 15 and is called harmful
interference by the FCC.

Show me your calculations on that one. I have been grinding some calculations where you have a choice to put out 100 watts on a 100 foot tower at one location or move your tower a mile and be on a hill 200 feet up with a short tower (25 feet?) and maybe 16 watts of power or a mile in another direction and be on a 400 foot hill and with a 25 foot tower be limited to 6 watts.

Sounds like a great idea to have a tiny little transmitter at very low purchase price. The trouble is, it may not penetrate significant buildings at half a mile, and is not likely to overload receivers.

The other calculation I have been doing is determining how low your antenna can be and not put out enough radiation to be unsafe for humans to be at ground level right under the antenna. Assume for a minute you take a small bungalow and convert it into a station facility and mount the antenna maybe only 10 feet above the roof. How much power do you have in the area where the volunteers will be working and is it legal.

I'm not sure what it takes in signal to "swamp" a receiver but I suspect a 100 watt LPFM with an antenna at 100 feet might cause some difficulty out to about SIXTY FEET from the antenna location at the most.

 

[radioboy]

You know guys, I don't feel so bad as an Internet and Part 15 AM station only after looking at our new ratings. WJJD is averaging 548 listeners per day and has just been accepted by iTunes.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Congratulations, Alan. Even in traditional old AM broadcasting in small markets where having audience surveys was not part of the economy, it was always a "leap of faith" to feel confident things were working out the way they were supposed to. But a lot of people just slept through the troubling doubts. After all... this is radio. We know it works.

But when you are trail-blazing pioneer as you are in streaming and Part 15, it is very reassuring to get a tangible report card.

Keep up the good work.