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Impact of an OGL flip

B

BobAltimari

Guest
I strongly feel Infinity might just flip OGL anyways. But, to understand my reasoning, let's take a trip back in time...

Rewind back to the years 1986-87. What were the two big movies of that time? The Big Chill and Dirty Dancing. This kicked off a whole new love of what would now be called "true oldies", but I'm jumping ahead.

Radio saw the impact of these films and decided there was gold in them thar hills. So, you saw a proliferation of oldies stations crop up almost overnight. Here in Philly, we already had WFIL, which made a return in 1983. Knowing Am didn't stand a chance in FM-dominated universi, the braintrust at CBS decided to dump hot hits for the oldies. Read: eschewed younger demos for the money ones.

What happened is what's prevalent at most stations nowadays....the tight playlist. These songs were great to hear when the stations came back. But, the playlists got crispy and the burnout rate was huge.

Plus, over the years you had new formats chomping away, moreover Jammin Oldies and Classic Hits. These formats were purported to be the second generation of oldies stations. Oldies then had to either s*** or off the pot, for lack of a better analogy. The result? Oldies morphing into the product we know today, heavy on the Motown/70's rhythm titles.

But, thanks to the aforementioned tight playlists, these titles got cooked as well. And you can't move forward with an evolution, lest you border on becoming a Hot AC. Current day oldies now faces an identity crisis. Rather than finding a solution that might, as best, keep the format above water...many programmers are flipping to other formats, moreover known as variety hits.

Can OGL still be JACK-ed? Of course. Now, let's analyse the impact.

First off, BEN wouldn't stand a chance. I think Kevin Fennessey said that GM would more than likely turn tail and either flip back to Mix or park some other format on 95.7. Again, GM would be on the outside looking in.

Nextly, WPEN would probably expand their playlist up to 1975...while still whoring out the weekends. Not the recipe for sucess.

Sunny would go more 60's and 70's and might catch fire for a bit. It would behoove them to move more towards the MOR-ish style they first employed when they came back, but that can be filed under "Things I wish stayed the same" and "Personal feelings".

The big winner? B-101. The MINUTE OGL dumps oldies, you watch the B. They will either go all oldies (60's and 70's for a week/weekend) then add more gold product. I think OGL shares more of an audience with B rather than PEN or Sunny. Jerry Lee is no slouch/dummy. Because he knows, if he won't do it, Sunny will.

So, to wrap this up:

WINNERS: Sunny and B
LOSERS: Ben and PEN. <P ID="signature">______________
FOX News Alert: YOU SUCK!!! Ya like apples?</P>
 
> Plus, over the years you had new formats chomping away,
> moreover Jammin Oldies and Classic Hits. These formats were
> purported to be the second generation of oldies stations.
> Oldies then had to either s*** or off the pot, for lack of a
> better analogy. The result? Oldies morphing into the product
> we know today, heavy on the Motown/70's rhythm titles.

I think that the advertisers told oldies station to do something. Jammin Oldies is a somewhat different animal. Classic hits is rock based - allmost no R&B/soul tunes it it. I like the 70's played on OGL. Its the classic rock that doesnt agree with me.

> The big winner? B-101. The MINUTE OGL dumps oldies, you
> watch the B. They will either go all oldies (60's and 70's
> for a week/weekend) then add more gold product. I think OGL
> shares more of an audience with B rather than PEN or Sunny.
> Jerry Lee is no slouch/dummy. Because he knows, if he won't
> do it, Sunny will.
>
> So, to wrap this up:
>
> WINNERS: Sunny and B
> LOSERS: Ben and PEN.

I think Sunny would flip to oldies. Just dump the 80's - "Greatest Hits Of The 60's & 70's." Bring over Holiday, Big Ron and Bob Pantano for the speciality shows. They can even keep the Sunny moniker.<P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies or jamminoldies105
CBS-FM lives at http://67.83.115.5:8010
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>
 
> I think that the advertisers told oldies station to do
> something. Jammin Oldies is a somewhat different animal.
> Classic hits is rock based - allmost no R&B/soul tunes it
> it. I like the 70's played on OGL. Its the classic rock that
> doesnt agree with me.

Perhaps a poor analogy, comparing Classic Hits to Oldies. I guess what I was going for is how some oldies stations were supplanted by Classic Hits. See also: WNJO and WODE.

> > The big winner? B-101. The MINUTE OGL dumps oldies, you
> > watch the B. They will either go all oldies (60's and 70's
>
> > for a week/weekend) then add more gold product. I think
> OGL
> > shares more of an audience with B rather than PEN or
> Sunny.
> > Jerry Lee is no slouch/dummy. Because he knows, if he
> won't
> > do it, Sunny will.
> >
> > So, to wrap this up:
> >
> > WINNERS: Sunny and B
> > LOSERS: Ben and PEN.
>
> I think Sunny would flip to oldies. Just dump the 80's -
> "Greatest Hits Of The 60's & 70's." Bring over Holiday, Big
> Ron and Bob Pantano for the speciality shows. They can even
> keep the Sunny moniker.
>

Agreed. Also, to avoid confusion with others...I didn't mean to say B would flip oldies, Sunny would. B would stay AC but add to the gold portion of their library.
<P ID="signature">______________
FOX News Alert: YOU SUCK!!! Ya like apples?</P>
 
If WOGL flips, I don't see any major player picking up oldies as a format. The B format works so well now, why tamper with it? Sunny would probably add a few more Motown songs and perhaps add a few more 60's non-Motown. But the point is Oldies is a dieing format. One that I dearly love. Hey, I loved my parents too but I knew there would be a time for them to move on. It happens. And in radio, when a format dies, you bury it. You don't take it from one station to another. And you don't add parts of the corpse to a very much alive and kicking (I know, their hit was "Tighter, Tighter") body. That's why we have Music Choice, Sirius (where Cousin Brucie is going - he knows the oldies format is over on commercial radio in NYC) and XM. Personally I am taking my large oldies cd library and burning them in rotations I like on cd's so I can listen to them without dj's and commercials.


> > I think that the advertisers told oldies station to do
> > something. Jammin Oldies is a somewhat different animal.
> > Classic hits is rock based - allmost no R&B/soul tunes it
> > it. I like the 70's played on OGL. Its the classic rock
> that
> > doesnt agree with me.
>
> Perhaps a poor analogy, comparing Classic Hits to Oldies. I
> guess what I was going for is how some oldies stations were
> supplanted by Classic Hits. See also: WNJO and WODE.
>
> > > The big winner? B-101. The MINUTE OGL dumps oldies, you
> > > watch the B. They will either go all oldies (60's and
> 70's
> >
> > > for a week/weekend) then add more gold product. I think
> > OGL
> > > shares more of an audience with B rather than PEN or
> > Sunny.
> > > Jerry Lee is no slouch/dummy. Because he knows, if he
> > won't
> > > do it, Sunny will.
> > >
> > > So, to wrap this up:
> > >
> > > WINNERS: Sunny and B
> > > LOSERS: Ben and PEN.
> >
> > I think Sunny would flip to oldies. Just dump the 80's -
> > "Greatest Hits Of The 60's & 70's." Bring over Holiday,
> Big
> > Ron and Bob Pantano for the speciality shows. They can
> even
> > keep the Sunny moniker.
> >
>
> Agreed. Also, to avoid confusion with others...I didn't mean
> to say B would flip oldies, Sunny would. B would stay AC but
> add to the gold portion of their library.
>
 
> > I think that the advertisers told oldies station to do
> > something. Jammin Oldies is a somewhat different animal.
> > Classic hits is rock based - allmost no R&B/soul tunes it
> > it. I like the 70's played on OGL. Its the classic rock
> that
> > doesnt agree with me.
>
> Perhaps a poor analogy, comparing Classic Hits to Oldies. I
> guess what I was going for is how some oldies stations were
> supplanted by Classic Hits. See also: WNJO and WODE.
>
> > > The big winner? B-101. The MINUTE OGL dumps oldies, you
> > > watch the B. They will either go all oldies (60's and
> 70's
> >
> > > for a week/weekend) then add more gold product. I think
> > OGL
> > > shares more of an audience with B rather than PEN or
> > Sunny.
> > > Jerry Lee is no slouch/dummy. Because he knows, if he
> > won't
> > > do it, Sunny will.
> > >
> > > So, to wrap this up:
> > >
> > > WINNERS: Sunny and B
> > > LOSERS: Ben and PEN.
> >
> > I think Sunny would flip to oldies. Just dump the 80's -
> > "Greatest Hits Of The 60's & 70's." Bring over Holiday,
> Big
> > Ron and Bob Pantano for the speciality shows. They can
> even
> > keep the Sunny moniker.
> >
>
> Agreed. Also, to avoid confusion with others...I didn't mean
> to say B would flip oldies, Sunny would. B would stay AC but
> add to the gold portion of their library.
>

It would be smart if Sunny added more oldies to their playlist. B101 may play more gold music, but I doubt much will be messed with their since B is doing so well. If WOGL flips Jack or another format, maybe 95.7 would go oldies. Just a prediction. I don't know why WPEN would be losers because they are "oldies" so more people may tune in. <P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>
 
>> And in radio, when a
> format dies, you bury it. You don't take it from one
> station to another. >>

So far this is not the case in some markets, like Nashville, where when one FM station dropped oldies recently another picked it up right away. With WPEN sort-of in the format I'm not sure another FM would pick up oldies, but I could see Sunny emphasizing it's '60's - '70's gold base more. But it seems like the OGL format is doing well enough fro them to hang on for a little longer, maybe it will get farther away from the '60's and more '70's -'80's based.
 
Well thought-out. I like it!

> I strongly feel Infinity might just flip OGL anyways. But,
> to understand my reasoning, let's take a trip back in
> time...
>
> Rewind back to the years 1986-87. What were the two big
> movies of that time? The Big Chill and Dirty Dancing. This
> kicked off a whole new love of what would now be called
> "true oldies", but I'm jumping ahead.
>
> Radio saw the impact of these films and decided there was
> gold in them thar hills. So, you saw a proliferation of
> oldies stations crop up almost overnight. Here in Philly, we
> already had WFIL, which made a return in 1983. Knowing Am
> didn't stand a chance in FM-dominated universi, the
> braintrust at CBS decided to dump hot hits for the oldies.
> Read: eschewed younger demos for the money ones.
>
> What happened is what's prevalent at most stations
> nowadays....the tight playlist. These songs were great to
> hear when the stations came back. But, the playlists got
> crispy and the burnout rate was huge.
>
> Plus, over the years you had new formats chomping away,
> moreover Jammin Oldies and Classic Hits. These formats were
> purported to be the second generation of oldies stations.
> Oldies then had to either s*** or off the pot, for lack of a
> better analogy. The result? Oldies morphing into the product
> we know today, heavy on the Motown/70's rhythm titles.
>
> But, thanks to the aforementioned tight playlists, these
> titles got cooked as well. And you can't move forward with
> an evolution, lest you border on becoming a Hot AC. Current
> day oldies now faces an identity crisis. Rather than finding
> a solution that might, as best, keep the format above
> water...many programmers are flipping to other formats,
> moreover known as variety hits.
>
> Can OGL still be JACK-ed? Of course. Now, let's analyse the
> impact.
>
> First off, BEN wouldn't stand a chance. I think Kevin
> Fennessey said that GM would more than likely turn tail and
> either flip back to Mix or park some other format on 95.7.
> Again, GM would be on the outside looking in.
>
> Nextly, WPEN would probably expand their playlist up to
> 1975...while still whoring out the weekends. Not the recipe
> for sucess.
>
> Sunny would go more 60's and 70's and might catch fire for a
> bit. It would behoove them to move more towards the MOR-ish
> style they first employed when they came back, but that can
> be filed under "Things I wish stayed the same" and "Personal
> feelings".
>
> The big winner? B-101. The MINUTE OGL dumps oldies, you
> watch the B. They will either go all oldies (60's and 70's
> for a week/weekend) then add more gold product. I think OGL
> shares more of an audience with B rather than PEN or Sunny.
> Jerry Lee is no slouch/dummy. Because he knows, if he won't
> do it, Sunny will.
>
> So, to wrap this up:
>
> WINNERS: Sunny and B
> LOSERS: Ben and PEN.
>
 
Re: Oldies on AM vs. Oldies on FM

Now, if 104.5 were to flip to Oldies and played the exact same playlist as 950 (same titles & same number of spins), wouldn't you think 104.5 would win easily due to the sound quality?

> >> And in radio, when a
> > format dies, you bury it. You don't take it from one
> > station to another. >>
>
> So far this is not the case in some markets, like Nashville,
> where when one FM station dropped oldies recently another
> picked it up right away. With WPEN sort-of in the format
> I'm not sure another FM would pick up oldies, but I could
> see Sunny emphasizing it's '60's - '70's gold base more.
> But it seems like the OGL format is doing well enough fro
> them to hang on for a little longer, maybe it will get
> farther away from the '60's and more '70's -'80's based.
>
 
> If WOGL flips, I don't see any major player picking up
> oldies as a format. The B format works so well now, why
> tamper with it?

B does so well reacting (hence minus the over qualifier). They would definitely add more gold to get those disenfranchised OGL listeners.

> Sunny would probably add a few more Motown
> songs and perhaps add a few more 60's non-Motown. But the
> point is Oldies is a dieing format. One that I dearly love.

I think Sunny would either become the default oldies station or would do a wholesale flip. But again, strong advantage to B here.

WPEN, I think would be safe to assume, would pick up the Oldies torch and run with it....to a certain extent. They would probably become more of what OGL was when they first launched in 1987, which was 1960-1975, while leaving the 70's cheese and disco to Sunny.

The only thing impeding PEN's success is PEN! One only need to listen on the weekend to see this point. Hence why I consider PEN the loser in the case OGL were to pack its bags. As soon as the oldies fan hears Dr. Peter's Pecker Pills and Pump, they, like most of us, are punchin' out in high volume.<P ID="signature">______________
FOX News Alert: YOU SUCK!!! Ya like apples?</P>
 
Re: Oldies on AM vs. Oldies on FM

> Now, if 104.5 were to flip to Oldies and played the exact
> same playlist as 950 (same titles & same number of spins),
> wouldn't you think 104.5 would win easily due to the sound
> quality?
>

As in you don't have the IBOC hash?

Or, simply it's in FM STEREO?

Either way, it would definitely sound better. Plus, Sunny would win due to no infomercials.

Would it fly? With the purists....absolutely.

With the advertisers/sales team/corporate/listeners? Might be a tougher sell.

I, for one, would love it!!!<P ID="signature">______________
FOX News Alert: YOU SUCK!!! Ya like apples?</P>
 
Re: Oldies on AM vs. Oldies on FM

> Now, if 104.5 were to flip to Oldies and played the exact
> same playlist as 950 (same titles & same number of spins),
> wouldn't you think 104.5 would win easily due to the sound
> quality?
>
Certainly, especially with all the non-music programming on WPEN. The question would be if WSNI would do better in the ratings (and demographics) than what they play now. If not, then why change? And if they were going to change, wouldn't they go after younger demos, not older? So I doubt Sunny would go all oldies.
 
Re: Oldies on AM vs. Oldies on FM

So I'm thinking, in this "WOGL-flips-to-Jack" scenario, GM would definitely move the Oldies format to 95.7 FM. One of the other FM's in town--and possibly more than one of the other FM's in town--will react to pick up WOGL's listeners. And that will leave WPEN as a(nother) failed experiement. So...it would stand to reason that 950 AM would move to 95.7 FM within minutes of WOGL's rumored demise. No?


> > Now, if 104.5 were to flip to Oldies and played the exact
> > same playlist as 950 (same titles & same number of spins),
>
> > wouldn't you think 104.5 would win easily due to the sound
>
> > quality?
> >
>
> As in you don't have the IBOC hash?
>
> Or, simply it's in FM STEREO?
>
> Either way, it would definitely sound better. Plus, Sunny
> would win due to no infomercials.
>
> Would it fly? With the purists....absolutely.
>
> With the advertisers/sales team/corporate/listeners? Might
> be a tougher sell.
>
> I, for one, would love it!!!
>
 
Bob Altimari wrote:

> Here in Philly (circa 1986/87), we
> already had WFIL, which made a return in 1983. Knowing AM
> didn't stand a chance in FM-dominated universe, the
> braintrust at CBS decided to dump hot hits for the oldies.
> Read: eschewed younger demos for the money ones.

Back in the mid/late 1980's, oldies probably had strong ratings among adults between 25 and 54 years old. Sadly, it's less so today.

Today, to get an oldies station to have most of it's audience be within the 25-54 demographic (especially women), such a station might have to play songs recorded between 1975 and 1990. It wouldn't be the "traditional" definition of an oldies format.
 
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