Since Puerto Rico is bi-lingual (predominately Spanish), can they support a local tv news in English without having to use NYC feeds? Also, why did ABC drop from WORO 13, and NBC drop from WTCV 18? Also, why is the English tv network in Peurto Rico are low power? (WPRU-LP ABC 20, WSJP-LP CW 30, WSJX-LP FOX 24), they transmit from Aguadilla, but cannot be seen in San Juan. If according to David that half of Puerto Rico population have English compency, can they support an OTA English tv station with local news? Look at Montreal, PQ they can support 3 English tv stations in a predominate French Speaking area (CBC, CTV, Global).
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English Language TV in Puerto Rico
- Thread starter e-dawg
- Start date
e-dawg said:
The fact that many Puerto Ricans know English is due mostly to the business and tourism connection with the US than a desire to consume media in a foreign language. Around 40% to 50% of the population is English proficient (able to communicate basic ideas in English)... probably less than 20% could be considered really bilingual.
Since about 99.5% of the Population is Spanish dominant, and all news on the Island "happens" in Spanish, most people would rather see the news and the related interviews and reports in the language the news "happened" in. The Spanish language TV stations have large news departments, so it would be very hard to compete for a tiny niche position.
Even in the late 60's when there were more Continentals in PR and there was no cable or satellite, English langauge TV failed several times on several stations. Today, the weak economy has the major TV nets on the island in very marginal economic states, so an English TV effort has an impossible task to be profitable. Just not enough people who would prefer English... and those who do ´probably want cable news from Fox and CNN.
David,
Have you thought about comparison San Juan to Montreal Canada. In Montreal, 18% of the population are anglophones, they can support 3 English tv stations, and all three English tv stations have a very large news departments. CBMT, CFCF, & CKMI. Even with a minority English speaking population in San Juan, can they at least support an English language tv station?
Have you thought about comparison San Juan to Montreal Canada. In Montreal, 18% of the population are anglophones, they can support 3 English tv stations, and all three English tv stations have a very large news departments. CBMT, CFCF, & CKMI. Even with a minority English speaking population in San Juan, can they at least support an English language tv station?
f
Today, there is about 0% native English speakers in PR. All the news happens in Spanish locally, and English casts are available on cable for those interested in Mainland issues.
San Juan is not an advertising market; Television in PR since the 50's has been a total-Island market. For radio, since the 80's, the same has been true. Agencies buy total Island (and there are about 120 agencies or buying services there.)
e-dawg said:
Today, there is about 0% native English speakers in PR. All the news happens in Spanish locally, and English casts are available on cable for those interested in Mainland issues.
San Juan is not an advertising market; Television in PR since the 50's has been a total-Island market. For radio, since the 80's, the same has been true. Agencies buy total Island (and there are about 120 agencies or buying services there.)
e-dawg said:
Stepping in for David here because I think I can help answer this question.
Canada is a completely different regulatory and commercial environment than we have in the US. In Canada, stations are licensed by language and there are at least 3 English language TV licenses in Montreal. Those serve a metropolitan area with far more anglophones than Puerto Rico and which has a higher income as well. CBMT is the CBC station for Montreal, and it is mandated that English CBC and French SRC signals be available to viewers throughout the country. Basically, the CBC model requires English CBC and French SRC stations to be located in places where they could never survive financially on their own as independent entities. Rather, each is a cog in a larger wheel. So, forget that one - it doesn't count for the sake of this discussion. There are also SRC stations in places where virtually no one speaks French. And I mean no one.
CFCF is a CTV affiliate and CKMI is a Global affiliate; the former is an affiliate of a national network, the latter is affiliated with one that is getting there. I think that both are O&Os, but could be wrong on that. As Montreal is a top market in Canada (I think it's 3rd now), all of the national networks need to have a presence there for the sake of ad dollars. And, 18% of that market being anglophone is still a big number. That's not 18% who can speak English - that's 18% for whom English is their first language. Of the other 82%, the majority speak at least some English. This compares with less than 0.5% native English speakers in PR. That's a huge difference.
The manner in which stations are "affiliated" with a network in Canada is more like the UK model too. Very little local programming or imaging. Most stations are just the local branch of the national network. That's as opposed to being a local station that's affiliated with a national network. There's actually a big difference. It was traditionally that way from TV's beginnings and will always be the case.
Same is true in Quebec City, though the English CTV station there has a much more modest profile and is, I think, an offshoot of CFCF. The Global network feed there is from elsewhere. Quebec City is far more French than Montreal, so much so that market forces do affect the language of TV in an obvious way there. Either way, the national commercial networks want affiliates in both cities and they have them.
No, Montreal is a whole different scenario than Puerto Rico which is (as David said) 99.5% native Spanish speaking. Plus, the local stations in San Juan include some very high-profile operations. I had the pleasure of spending the day at WAPA. Quite a large facility. They're constantly filming entertainment programs there, which are marketed to various broadcasters throughout Latin America. The place is like an old fashioned TV studio from the 1950s, where there are multiple sound stages and where well-known stars show up to perform. Their news operation is very impressive by any measure. And, their OTA coverage is like a blanket over the island. The Univision affiliate in San Juan is also impressive and also produces some entertainment programming. There is quite a legacy of TV entertainment in PR - and of talent. Most of those gorgeous women that you see on Univision shows like Primer Impacto are from Puerto Rico and got their starts in a station like WAPA.
No, whatever English broadcasts emanate from the island are merely for tourists and the few retirees that settled there (which is why the signals aren't in San Juan). Unlike Canada, there's no government mandate that certain English language networks be carried in all US territories. It's all market based. If that were the case in Canada, Montreal would probably still have 3 English network stations - but Quebec City and Sherbrooke would probably have none. And, there would be no French SRC stations anywhere west of Toronto.
BRNout said:
I don't even think it is this many today; in the Operation Bootstrap era, many Continentals came to PR to assit building and managing factories. Today, a new generation of Puerto Ricans runs those faciliities, not Continentals. And in any case, nearly all Continentals are transient, and have no interest in local news and such in English. They watch cable from the mainland.
Fascinating perspective. Add another factor in PR: for less than 40,000 persons, the local ad agencies (nearly all ad revenue in PR comes from agencies) are not going to do creative in English. There is not enough money to be earned to support English language TV. In my near 40 years in PR radio, I have seen attempt after attempt fail.
This particular thread has been very informative.
Thanks.
(a PRican exile in Texas)
Thanks.
(a PRican exile in Texas)
e-dawg said:
The low power stations are in Aguadilla because there are close to the POP from Dish Network in Cabo Rojo in the west part in the Island.
POP... not sure what that mean.
So the low power English TV stations have to be near a place where the Dish Network can pull in the signal? I saw Dish receivers all over the island.
Although flying Jet Blue, my plane lost its TV signal halfway to Puerto Rico. Same for the return trip home... signal came back a few hundred miles from the U.S. mainland.
Just curious... does Sirius/XM satellite radio work in Puerto Rico?
Gregg
[email protected]
So the low power English TV stations have to be near a place where the Dish Network can pull in the signal? I saw Dish receivers all over the island.
Although flying Jet Blue, my plane lost its TV signal halfway to Puerto Rico. Same for the return trip home... signal came back a few hundred miles from the U.S. mainland.
Just curious... does Sirius/XM satellite radio work in Puerto Rico?
Gregg
[email protected]
Gregg said:
I believe he means the head-end, where the must carry rules apply and where the signal could be added easily anyway.
The dish and DirecTV antennas all are getting the same sats as on the mainland... just can't always use the smaller dishes.
I know a few who have subscribed with a mainland address (apparently the XM Sirius music licencing does not include PR) but don't remember if it is XM or Sirius satellites they are looking at.
Now that is fundamentally wrong. It is clear that you are substituting your beliefs and anecdotal experiences for hard facts when you make your statements. This is not the first time, either.DavidEduardo said:
I'm not going to accuse you of being a Puerto Rican Nationalist (the movement to separate Puerto Rico from USA in terms of independence), but when you make statements like "there is about 0% native English speakers in PR", you are opening that door. If you have data that shows that you are correct in that statement, please share with us. I believe you were asked to show data before and you were not able to comply, so I doubt things will go differently this time.
From data from the US Census: http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/c2kbr-29.pdf , the percentage of Puerto Ricans who spoke English in their homes was 14.4% of the population. Not 0%. That is 433,23364.8 people who speak english as their native language. Now, 71.9% of the population admitted to speaking English less than very well, however, you have to remember much of the population of Puerto Rico is in poverty, and likely are not within the concern of advertisers. If the upper demos are (at best) speaking english at home or (at worst) at least bilingual, I'm sure that there could be money to be made in this demo if they knew what advertisers (that's read: higher end) to sell it to.
Anecdotally, I had a wonderful time in Puerto Rico a month ago. In my travels from San Juan to Rio Grande and all down route 3, I encountered not one location where I could not be understood in English. There was only ONE time where I encountered someone who spoke limited english- at a gas station. She memorized the basic english sentences that she would need to use, and although I had to use spanish to inform her of the pump number I was parked at, there was no problem.
PhDance said:
For many years, starting back in the early 70's, I worked to get San Juan and Puerto Rico included in the market rankers used by media companies. First, it was SRDS, which ranked San Juan in the 70's and 80's as market 31. To do that, I had considerable support from the Planning Board (Junta de Planificación) and PRIDCO (Industrial Development Corporation) among others, as well as demographers from the University of Puerto Rico.
At that time, I also saw statistics on things like Continentals and repatriates. Back in 1970, there were close to 200,000 Continentals in PR, mostly in management and technical positions at mainland company branches. Over the decades, the number has decreased significantly, and is currently estimated to be in the 20,000 to 40,000 range consisting of a few managers (and their families) and such and Continentals married into Puerto Rican families.
The other source of native English speakers is repatriates... Puerto Ricans who lived all or most of their lives on the mainland and who have returned. Many of these are English dominant, but many are in older age groups and have returned to retire where the cost of living is vastly lower. This figure may be as high as 100,000 based on data from the PR Department of Instruction, which has to deal with the children of these returnees in a 100% Spanish school system.
Long ago, the PPD moved to remove the English requirement from the public school system. An effort to remove English as an official language, along with Spanish, passed about a decade ago, but was quickly reversed. However, it shows the effort to change the status of the time between the 30's and the 50's when nearly everyone learned some, if not good, English at school. The 75% or more of children who go to public school learn little, if any, English.
In 1970, there were 3 radio stations in San Juan alone in English (4 if you count underground FM "The Family"). Today, there is one (and a part English religious station). There was an English newspaper, now it is gone.
That does not mean English was spoken 100%. It means that there was the ability to speak in English, meaning the families or certain members were bilingual. 14% corresponds, pretty clearly, with the percentage of children who go to bilingual private schools. They can speak English, even very good English, but don't use it as their primary language.
As a cultural anthropologist at the UPR told me once, you can determine a person's culture (and language preference) by finding out what language they swear in if they hit a finger with a hammer or the language they make love in. In Puerto Rico, all but a tiny percentage would qualify as culturally being Hispanic and linguistically being Spanish dominant.
Anecdotally, my family, when I lived in PR, spoke good English... but in the home, we seldom spoke the language although we could. The exceptional times when we spoke English were when the subject matter sort of required it. And those were limited situations.
In any case, the most recent ACS data says that there are 167,000 English / no or little Spanish speakers on the Island. There are over 400,000 who are Spanish speakers who also "Speak English Very Well" (ACS, 2007) but that corresponds to the bilingually educated native Puerto Rican upper middle and upper socioeconomic class in general
No, that is 400 thousand who consider themselves bilingual, not 400 thousand who are English dominant. Being bilingual and being dominant in a language are not the same thing.
Poverty is relative. Advertisers seek almost exclusively middle and working class, not the top 15% to 20% that are consumers of "imported media" like cable, etc. The top TV and radio shows and stations have strong appeal in that 70% group you dismiss.
Most advertisers don't go after the very high end. And those that do, do it in Spanish as programming in English does not reach the "emotional buttons" of most Boricuas. It's been tried, over and over, and never works.
Just because tourist destination has a lot of people who can say some things in English does not mean that they are bilingual nor does it mean that there is any market for English language radio among that group.
The POP is the Point of Picture Our Uplink center in Puerto Rico for all out there that do not know is in Cabo Rojo is called Cabo Rojo Gateway. Here Dish send the signal of the channles to Cheyenne.
And Yes we can get XM Radio! And there is a lot of Puerto Ricans here that are the morons "nacionalistas" that think that they are the only ones that are educated here. Most of the Puerto Ricans treasure our US Citenzship! And we enjoy our relantionship with the United States!
In the last Election here The PNP received over 1 million votes and won by over 210,000 votes the "nationalistas" are a very small minority but since they are morons the want the people to know that they are in charge and that is BS!
In the last Election here The PNP received over 1 million votes and won by over 210,000 votes the "nationalistas" are a very small minority but since they are morons the want the people to know that they are in charge and that is BS!
Thank you David for listing your sources for your claim. While I do stand by the point that the statistics I cited from the Census were for those that responded that english was spoken in the home (meaning, that was the language they chose to speak in the house), you are correct that they could very easily (and likely) be bilingual. I am glad that the PNP is gaining traction (although I do not wish to anger any one with a discussion of politics)-- as I'm sure most continentals would value the relationship with Puerto Rico just as Puerto Ricans value their relationship with the rest of the USA. Personally I think that would statehood happen in the future (which is not entirely unlikely) then there would be an increase in English language stations, as English is (supposed to be) an official language alongside Spanish.
I enjoy the insights over the history of the language. There was at some point a push to almost engage in "language genocide" against Spanish, as the schools were required to teach in English (and that required training, and in some cases, importing teachers), however, some would say that the pendulum swung too far to the other side (exampled by the Nationalist movement, and briefly declaring Spanish as the only official language) in years past. It would be great to see more equality valued between the languages as I'm confident that neither needs to replace the other. In terms of the language of radio/tv stations, that will be a reflection of those feelings.
I enjoy the insights over the history of the language. There was at some point a push to almost engage in "language genocide" against Spanish, as the schools were required to teach in English (and that required training, and in some cases, importing teachers), however, some would say that the pendulum swung too far to the other side (exampled by the Nationalist movement, and briefly declaring Spanish as the only official language) in years past. It would be great to see more equality valued between the languages as I'm confident that neither needs to replace the other. In terms of the language of radio/tv stations, that will be a reflection of those feelings.
PhDance said:
If you look at the PR 2000 Census form, you will see there is nothing about chosing English; the tables about langauges are cross tabs about English proficiency. Most of us think the "English only" ACS figure for 2007 is way, way exaggerated and comes from poor wording of the form.
The public school system (Departamento de Instrucción) operates only one school for special students including a group of English-only speakers, and it is in Santurce, an area of San Juan. One of my daughters, who was a Fortaleza advisor (advisor to the Governor) and the head of the DoE legal department believes that the number of such students today is in the few hundreds, and that there is no appreciable number of English primary persons on the Island anywhere, save the tourist zones and a few business people.
The liklihood of becoming a state and being under pressure to change an entire culture is slim; many who like the PNP candidates also vote for the senator at large and representatives from the PIP (independence party) as I always did during decades living there. The real issue for radio, though, is that English pop and rock and AC has been losing ground for more than a decade. Even the stations, from WFID to WKAQ-FM that used to play nearly all or a lot of English material now play very little.
Not really. PR public schools for about 4 decades were bilingual in the Latin American manner, where some classes are in English, others in Spanish (my High School in Ecuador was such a school). The reduction in English happened more increasingly in the late 60's and on, in a sort of effort to enhance national pride... it was the era of a number of PPD governors, and the split of the PPD into splinter factions like that of Sánchez Villela, and a time when the PIP, PSP and PUP had close to 8% of the vote (today they have so little that the PUP disappeared, the PSP is hardly active, and the PIP did not get the minimum to requalify for future elections).
In all truth, the PPD is a pro-Puerto Rican separation party... that is, separate but equal. It consists of may who are idealistically independentistas but realistically PPD militants. There is a saying that if you are young, and have a heart, you are for independence, and if you are mature, and are for independence, you don't have a brain.
In a market where talk stations that only discuss local politics and society get about 20 shares I don't see that happening.
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