About How Much Would it Cost to Have a Fully Licensed Internet Stream?

[cc333]

I'm thinking of making my stream public (or at least taking away the risks so I can open it up and share links to it more freely), and to do that, I need to get it licensed, which, as I understand it, isn't cheap.

But how much does it cost?

Do I need ASCAP/BMI/SESAC, or is there one service (SoundExchange?) that covers it all? How much would it cost? Are the costs monthly or yearly?

Thanks,

c

 

[PTBoardOp94]

This table is probably the best resource available. The cheapest plan doesn't buy much -- 1500 total hours is an average listener count of two.

Live365 - Start Your Station - Pricing

Start broadcasting in minutes. All the tools and licensing in one place.

live365.com

 

[DavidEduardo]

I'm thinking of making my stream public (or at least taking away the risks so I can open it up and share links to it more freely), and to do that, I need to get it licensed, which, as I understand it, isn't cheap.

But how much does it cost?

Do I need ASCAP/BMI/SESAC, or is there one service (SoundExchange?) that covers it all? How much would it cost? Are the costs monthly or yearly?

ASAP, BMI, SESAC and BMR are composer / author rights. Sound exchange is for digital record label and artist rights. Need them all.

 

[JeeperOne]

This table is probably the best resource available. The cheapest plan doesn't buy much -- 1500 total hours is an average listener count of two.

Live365 - Start Your Station - Pricing

Start broadcasting in minutes. All the tools and licensing in one place.

live365.com

And even if you just use Live365 as a streaming service for tour Old Time Radio or Talk station, you'd still have to pay because although there would likely be any Royalties involved, you still have to pay for the storage space & everything else involved

 

[cc333]

I have my own storage? Can't I just feed Live365 from there, or do I need to upload it?

Out of curiosity, are there any other "we'll-cover-the-licensing" services?

c

 

[JeeperOne]

I have my own storage? Can't I just feed Live365 from there, or do I need to upload it?

Out of curiosity, are there any other "we'll-cover-the-licensing" services?

c

I'm not sure about how the current carnation of Live365 operates but the original Live365 basically used the SHOUTcast protocols for live streaming which required the Winamp player which requires the SHOUTcast protocols for streaming

 

[cc333]

I see.

Hmm, My TLH right now would probably be somewhere around 1500-2000, since I basically only have a potential audience of maybe 2 anyway, and neither of them will listen for more than a few minutes to an hour or so a day anyway, maybe a little more on weekends. My main audience, I am hoping, would be listening over the air to my Part 15 station, which from what I've read has very relaxed licensing requirements and is basically exempt from paying royalties, and thus, bothering with things such as TLH, aside from a flat BMI license that I don't believe is mandatory, unless things have changed somehow over the past year or so. The stream is really only a means by which a couple friends can listen on the coast about 130 miles north, which is well beyond the range of anything I could legally do over the air without a commercial FCC license and full-service, multi-kilowatt station.

If I could just pay some sort of relatively modest, flat monthly rate for licensing that allows me like 1500-2000 TLH, but lets me keep everything set up the way I have it now (IceCast on a server I set up and configured myself), that would be ideal.

I'm all for artists and songwriters getting justly compensated for their work, but royalties really make everything hard.

c

 

[Red Plume]

My main audience, I am hoping, would be listening over the air to my Part 15 station, which from what I've read has very relaxed licensing requirements and is basically exempt from paying royalties, and thus, bothering with things such as TLH, aside from a flat BMI license that I don't believe is mandatory, unless things have changed somehow over the past year or so.

Don't rely on unverified information. This information is incorrect (and is not a new development).

 

[cc333]

I see. Hmm.

So, do I need to pay to get licensed with ASCAP/BMI/SESAC for an otherwise license free Part 15 low power AM station?

That would be pretty sad if so (can't people have a little fun? It's not like it's hurting anyone, and to monetize it would be, in my opinion, a blatant money grab).

c

 

[Red Plume]

I see. Hmm.

So, do I need to pay to get licensed with ASCAP/BMI/SESAC for an otherwise license free Part 15 low power AM station?

BMI has made a license available for Part 15 stations, and has made it clear that it's mandatory [1]. The others, as far as I know, do not follow up on Part 15 licensing, but could always retroactively require payment. I think a lawyer's advice would probably by that you only play BMI-represented compositions if licensing for the remaining tracks can't be obtained.

There is also Creative Commons, which represents a lot of quality music, but there won't be much in the way of known songs.

[1] https://www.bmi.com/forms/licensing/radio/part_15_radio_license.pdf

 

[Theater of My Mind]

It seems the music industry's royalty system is deliberately crafted to shut out small streaming businesses and extract nearly all the profits from the big ones.

 

[Red Plume]

It seems the music industry's royalty system is deliberately crafted to shut out small streaming businesses and extract nearly all the profits from the big ones.

It's really a difficult space to find sustainability in the United States.

If you're interested in streaming to Canadian audiences, they have a much more reasonable system in place. But you can't expect that license to cover audiences outside of Canada.

 

[cc333]

BMI has made a license available for Part 15 stations, and has made it clear that it's mandatory [1]

OK, I think I knew that, but I guess I conveniently forgot the mandatory part.

$312 per year, at least, is reasonable.

It seems the music industry's royalty system is deliberately crafted to shut out small streaming businesses and extract nearly all the profits from the big ones.

Absolutely. It's very unfair and makes doing anything related to broadcasting very joyless and almost impossible for hobbyists on shoestring budgets.

If you're interested in streaming to Canadian audiences, they have a much more reasonable system in place.

Sure!

c

 

[KeithE4]

BMI has made a license available for Part 15 stations, and has made it clear that it's mandatory [1]. The others, as far as I know, do not follow up on Part 15 licensing, but could always retroactively require payment. I think a lawyer's advice would probably by that you only play BMI-represented compositions if licensing for the remaining tracks can't be obtained.

[1] https://www.bmi.com/forms/licensing/radio/part_15_radio_license.pdf

If one is broadcasting only to him/herself and family, and doesn't publicize its existence to the general public, it's not broadcasting, and no license of any kind (FCC or Music Mafia) should be required. Such "wireless phono oscillators" and their descendants have been around since the 1930s. I don't see why any Part 15 Ancient Modulation station other than Carrier Current or "Free Radiate" stations on college campuses, which do broadcast to the public, would need any kind of a license.

By definition, no FM Part 15 signal can broadcast from its transmitter at 250 uV/m @ 3 meters far enough to matter. Maybe a radius of a city block, at best. If the station is legal, of course.

 

[Oldie919]

Red Plume.....
Thanks for posting the BMI Part 15 License info......
It kinda irks me to have to fork over more than 3 C-notes a year....but....
Not going to try to fight City Hall.....!!

 

[gregg75]

LIVE 365 pays your royalty fees for you. Not saying I'd recommend them though. Monthly station cost should be around $100. That does not include a personal station website you may also want.

 

[Kelly A]

An acquaintance owned a couple of radio stations in Hawaii. One played pop music that was 'island influenced', and had a lot of mainland streaming from former vacationers who had enjoyed listening while on the island. Due to the popularity of the stream, he racked up pretty hefty bills from Sound Exchange, copyright groups, and the company he paid to do the stream. I believe the highest annual total came to around $90,000.00. In spite of the popularity, it became clear there was no way he could even cover expenses from selling unique stream ads, so he tried offering subscriptions. Not surprisingly, 90% of the people streaming for free, weren't interested in signing up for even a $5 per month fee, so the subscription option was abandoned. Shortly after, he shut down the stream.

 

[pjc1961]

Article from InsideRadio.com on starting up an Internet Stream - focus is on music licensing:

Starting An Internet Radio Station? Here's What You Need To Know About Licensing.

While operating an internet radio station may be tempting, especially for industry veterans looking to continue their programming and on-air legacies, the licensing expenses necessary to run such a station

www.insideradio.com

""Internet radio stations in the U.S. are responsible for both mechanical and performance royalties to perform music," says John Van Camp, VP of BBR Productions, Inc., owner of multiple internet radio stations. "In addition to the copyright royalties paid by all broadcasters, internet streamers are also responsible for per-play performance royalties in the U.S. imposed by the Digital Millennial Copyright Act through SoundExchange, regardless of station profit status. Even hobbyist internet stations are liable for performance and mechanical royalties. The rules are simple: you play, you pay.”

Related to this thread about the rise in royalty costs in 2024:

https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/streaming-costs-going-up-in-2024.768560/