I think I hear what you're saying (it may involve "tune out" on a perceived stiff or artist that doesn't test well?), but the same time, don't the "name" artists of each format help the format, and stations? I mean, any time I hear an ad for a music station, they always name-drop the big selling acts -- the ones that fill arenas, almost invariably.
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It's sad that New York radio cannot honor the dead superstars in rock.
- Thread starter Gunsmoke
- Start date
I think I hear what you're saying (it may involve "tune out" on a perceived stiff or artist that doesn't test well?), but the same time, don't the "name" artists of each format help the format, and stations? I mean, any time I hear an ad for a music station, they always name-drop the big selling acts -- the ones that fill arenas, almost invariably.
NYC is unique among large markets in the U.S. in that it has fewer full-power commercial FM stations. 93.9, 99.5 and 105.9 (not full power but on the Empire State Building) are all non-commercial outlets. That leaves only 16 FM signals available in NYC. 94.7 had been another non-comm in the commercial band but its sale has finally given NYC a Country station after so many years without one. LA has only no full-power non-commercial stations in the commercial band. (There is one religious station, KKLA-FM 99.5, which used to be non-commercial but now is a Salem brokered preaching station, with some commercials.) LA has two NPR News/Talk stations (but neither full power), a classical station and a Pacifica station, but they are all below 92.1.
Another problem is that NYC is in Class B territory. So no station in the suburbs can pretend to be a market-wide station. Go to Dallas or Houston and they have stations 20 or 30 miles from downtown, in the .4 MHz, between the major FM stations, that get programmed like they are market-wide stations. Some run 100,000 watts on high towers and get good ratings, even if they miss some parts of the market. NYC has only a couple of 50,000 watt stations in its suburbs. Most suburban stations are powered at 3000 watts. They can only serve their specific region, not NYC. I can only think of one exception, Christian Contemporary 99.1 WAWZ Zaraphath NJ, which acts like its a NYC station, even though its signal is poor outside New Jersey, Staten Island and Brooklyn.
In LA, several suburban stations have formed simulcasts, often getting ratings equal or better than some LA stations... I'm thinking of the 94.3 K-Buena stations, the 107.1 KSSE stations, the 103.1 KDLE stations and till recently the 93.5 KDAY stations. For a time, NYC had one trimulcast at 107.1 doing country music. But it eventually broke up.
I'm sure if there were more signals available, someone would do Alternative or Active Rock in NYC. Or maybe some other formats not currently heard.
Another problem is that NYC is in Class B territory. So no station in the suburbs can pretend to be a market-wide station. Go to Dallas or Houston and they have stations 20 or 30 miles from downtown, in the .4 MHz, between the major FM stations, that get programmed like they are market-wide stations. Some run 100,000 watts on high towers and get good ratings, even if they miss some parts of the market. NYC has only a couple of 50,000 watt stations in its suburbs. Most suburban stations are powered at 3000 watts. They can only serve their specific region, not NYC. I can only think of one exception, Christian Contemporary 99.1 WAWZ Zaraphath NJ, which acts like its a NYC station, even though its signal is poor outside New Jersey, Staten Island and Brooklyn.
In LA, several suburban stations have formed simulcasts, often getting ratings equal or better than some LA stations... I'm thinking of the 94.3 K-Buena stations, the 107.1 KSSE stations, the 103.1 KDLE stations and till recently the 93.5 KDAY stations. For a time, NYC had one trimulcast at 107.1 doing country music. But it eventually broke up.
I'm sure if there were more signals available, someone would do Alternative or Active Rock in NYC. Or maybe some other formats not currently heard.
How about WNSH on the Jersey side? And WBLI and WALK on the other side? All three of those are B's and well inside the market.
Two of the KSSE stations are in different markets; Ventura and San Diego. One of the KDAY stations, the Ontario one, is licensed outside the Los Angles MSA and has minimal coverage of the market.
In LA it is hard to call someplace like Santa Monica or Inglewood or Anaheim a "suburb" since LA has five or six "downtown" areas, each with its collection of taller buildings and specific economic areas of focus. So most of the Class A FMs united in simulcasts are better described as "more limited coverage" than as "suburban".
One missing: KRCD/KRCV, which often is in the top 10 stations in the market.
If I had the facilities and an interest in the format, I'd analyze WRFF and its lack of significant sales traction as a case study. I think that would be enough to scare anyone away.
If I had the facilities and an interest in the format, I'd analyze WRFF and its lack of significant sales traction as a case study. I think that would be enough to scare anyone away.
With that being said, I guess we will soon see Radio 104.5 flipping to Hip Hop, Spanish or Sports by summers end, why keep a dead horse on the air in its present state....
With that being said, I guess we will soon see Radio 104.5 flipping to Hip Hop, Spanish or Sports by summers end, why keep a dead horse on the air in its present state....
Spanish programming did not work because the market is highly assimilated and there is only a small Spanish dominant community.
I was just Foolin' lmao
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Here's another thought. So much of what passes for "alternative" music these days is really just pop with guitars and sounds quite at home getting a few spins on a CHR station. Groups like Imagine Dragons, Grouplove, 21 Pilots, Alt-J, and Fitz and the Tantrums all immediately come to mind.
I always thought that a carefully curated and programmed rock station could make it in NYC, but I doubt it would ever get the billings it would need to survive here, which is why we don't have one anymore.
I always thought that a carefully curated and programmed rock station could make it in NYC, but I doubt it would ever get the billings it would need to survive here, which is why we don't have one anymore.
It seems better suited to the non-commercial band, which is where it is.
Depending on the style of rock, WFUV, WFMU, and WSOU.
For the most part, full time. WFUV and WFMU are professionally run. WSOU is the only traditional college station. In fact, WFMU isn't owned by a college anymore.
I tried all three, on line of course living in Philly. I enjoyed the WSOU format best, plenty of metal and hard rock. I did notice all three are not city grade coverage signals, and the two with repeaters add no significant coverage for the city. WFUV had the best, but I would say they are not the same as the commercial FM's, in signal strength. It's bad when you have to turn to a weak signal for a format that once dominated the airwaves.
Heck even MTV Classic is devoting more time to Metal, Rock and Alternative videos.
Have you checked the national viewership for that channel? Z-100 just in NYC has more audience.
You mention MTV classic, but what is the viewership of all the other MTV urban oriented networks, VH1, MTV, MTV2, TR3s, BETJ, BETSO and FUSE. I would bet they are much lower than MTV Classic.
Have you checked the national viewership for that channel? Z-100 just in NYC has more audience.
You mention MTV classic, but what is the viewership of all the other MTV urban oriented networks, VH1, MTV, MTV2, TR3s, BETJ, BETSO and FUSE. I would bet they are much lower than MTV Classic.
WFUV covers 13,000,000 people in its 60 dbu. It is the equivalent of a conforming Class B station (50 kw at 500 feet). Its only difference is that its transmitter site is not in midtown Manhattan, and it is directional to the NE. Overall, not too much difference other than the directionality and definitely not a "weak signal".
Saying that WFUV has a "weak signal" is like saying that WCBS (AM) has a "weak signal" because WFAN covers 2,000,000 more people in its 5 mV/m signal than 880 does.
Here is one source quoting the 2016 audience averages
http://www.thewrap.com/20-least-watched-entertainment-cable-channels-2016-mtv-classic-sprout/?mode=2
MTV Classic has about the equivalent viewership of listenership to the #20 rated radio station in NYC. One local FM in New York reaches more people than MTV Classic does in the whole country.
I am not sure I get your drift. "urban" in radio language refers to the format that is based on hip-hop and r&b and is principally targeted at African American radio listeners.
As the the list you ask about, VH1 does better than the rest, but that is not "good". The others are way down there below VH1.
Only VH1 and MTV are even in the top 30 cable networks. Neither are in the top 25.
http://deadline.com/2016/12/cable-rankings-network-ratings-fox-cnn-msnbc-1201873996/
I can't find evidence of TR3s showing in ratings at a national level, as one example of a concept that just ain't workin'.
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You have to go back over 25 years to find a time when rock "dominated" the New York airwaves. That was before changes in the music made it a less commercial format. As the music changed, it became less commercial in a market like New York. So when the format got a quality signal, as it did when Emmis flipped to WRXP, the ratings and revenue are less than required. Even when the station is staffed with knowledgeable staffers like Leslie Framm and Matt Pinfield. You can't criticize the level of commitment that station received, and was unable to consistently get above a 2 share, at least without adding a lot of classic rock.
A secondary, but significant, issue is that many rock formats were lower cumers with high TSL. When the PPM came, stations in that cume-to-TSL position tended to suffer. Smooth Jazz was killed by that change when it came on top of a rapid aging of the audience. AAA just tended to lose a couple of rank positions in each market they were in.
AAA, in the diary, had a lot of exaggerated long TSL that was revealed to be much shorter in the PPM. And the format has much less unreported "phantom cume" than most other formats.
In addition, rock music fans seem to be more likely to get their music from streaming than OTA radio. Not just because the format is not available. But when it IS available, they want to have more control over the music that gets played. Rock fans are more focused on specific artists than a genre as a whole. That is very unlike formats like country or urban, where listeners are more driven by the format than specific artists. This is not to say they don't have their favorites, but that they are more tolerant than rock fans. That is a key difference.
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