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KUHF 88.7 HD2 better ratings than the christian rap on their old signal on KXBG 91.7

I think it shows that more people in Houston so far would listen to Classical music then would listen to christian hip hop or at least listen longer although maybe by only a small margin.

That may be but it doesn't matter. It's not a popularity contest. KUHF sold the station, and the new owners bought it for a reason. They won't be flipping to classical regardless of the ratings. The size of the audience for classical wasn't enough to pay the costs, so that's why the station was sold. Same with Miami. If the people of Houston had been more supportive, this would not have happened. Hopefully a lesson has been learned.

I also do not think public stations look at classical as much as a mission to supply the area with classical music as they do with supplying political news and information and as Christians do in spreading their views about salvation.

It depends on who you're talking about. Classical music WAS at one time the foundation for NPR and public radio in general. I think there are a lot of people in public radio who love classical music. I don't think the "mission" is about information as it is about serving the community and simply staying alive. The fans of classical music had a chance to keep classical on it's own station, as is the case for NPR stations in NY, Boston, and DC, and they didn't step up to the table. I suspect the U of H is still paying off some of the expense incurred in buying that 91.6 a few years ago.
 
The fans of classical music had a chance to keep classical on it's own station, as is the case for NPR stations in NY, Boston, and DC, and they didn't step up to the table.

They've even stepped up to the plate in sufficient numbers to do so in tiny Vermont, which has an impressive network of "VPR Classical" stations and translators across the state. And they don't interrupt their programming for "Morning Edition" or "All Things Considered" -- those shows are on the VPR News stations.

WFCR Amherst, MA, and WSHU, Fairfield, CT, also play classical (in the day and overnight, evenings are jazz), but both also have the NPR flagship news/commentary shows in AM and PM drive.

Of course, Vermont, Massachusetts and Connecticut are deep "blue" states, but I always thought old folks skewed more conservative everywhere. I guess not the subset of 65+ that enjoys classical music.
 
I always thought old folks skewed more conservative everywhere. I guess not the subset of 65+ that enjoys classical music.

I don't think there's a connection between politics and classical music. A lot of conservative legislators listen to WETA, the NPR classical station in Washington. You can hear the station in a lot of offices on Capitol Hill.
 
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I only wanted to point out how an HD only signal on a format I like (Classical) has about the same ratings as the new format on their old analog signal. As more people get HD radios I hope KUHF 88.7 HD2 will gain even more listeners in the future and be here to stay in HD for many years. I have several HD radios and so a format I like on HD radio like classical is fine with me. I prefer to listen to HD channels over analog ones because they sound better.

You are missing the point that the tiny share that the HD channel got is due to the extended listening of one panel household. One.

The PPM sample is very small. With the recent sample increase, the average daily qualified participation is around 1,500 persons with meters.

You can do the math easily. Simplified, the average percentage of the population that is listening to the radio on average at any given time is around 8%. So, on average there are 120 of those 1,500 meters actually detecting a radio station.

A station with a 5 share has about 7 meters detecting its particular PPM coding at any given time. Of course, those stations in the top tier of listening may reach as many as 300 to 500 different metered panelists during the week, but at any given time the average number listening is very few... even to a very big stations. (Obviously there are more than 7 meters in the more listened to hours and fewer, for example, at night).

A station below a just be low a 1 share has, on average, one meter detecting it, but not continuously, during the day. A station down around a 0.1 has an average of one meter detecting it a few different times during the day... maybe every couple of hours.

So the numbers for those low-share stations represent a small number of meters, and are statistically the same as "nobody".
 
So the numbers for those low-share stations represent a small number of meters, and are statistically the same as "nobody".

And as we all know, ratings in non-commercial radio don't matter, other than showing a potential base for membership. Certainly if they could demonstrate larger Nielsen numbers, they could include that in any presentation they do to major corporate contributors. But I wouldn't recommend that if the number is this small. Instead, you seek out "passion" data from those who you know listen, such as those who become members, or those who attend station events. You combine that passion information with the main channel information as an overall presentation to demonstrate combined impact and impression. Then you can hopefully translate that into operating revenue.
 
Just picking your brain, but what do you attribute to the success of this station (KKHH) versus 106.9 the Point? The presentation or imaging? Signal quality over 106.9? Something else?

KKHH has a much broader playlist, spread over several decades. The Point was limited to the 80's, and there was a large amount of music from that decade that they never touched. The Spot has borrowed from the Bob/Jack playbooks with a nice variety of tunes, and so far, it appears to be working.

Also should point out that the lack of air talent actually works in The Spot's favor. Much less clutter.
 
[FONT="ArialThe Air1 christian chr station has much better ratings at 1.7 than KXNG so I guess young people prefer it over KXNG.[/B][/FONT]

Air1 can be considered as a mix of Pop and Rock, while NGEN is heavy on Rap and Hip Hop. The two stations sound very different to me.

KXNG is still building an audience. In a year to 18 months we'll have a better idea of how it is doing against Air1.

Still wonder how well KJIC would do if it had a full market signal, or a simulcast on the north side.
 
Still wonder how well KJIC would do if it had a full market signal, or a simulcast on the north side.

Really?? 90.5 "King Jesus Is Coming" and its Southern Gospel and Country? I really thought I was the only one. Few years ago, Texas Southern contemplated selling off the license for KTSU. I always thought that would be a fantastic addition for Santa Fe's Community Radio. Wasn't meant to be.

Good to know there is another person who believes KJIC would fare well on a signal further north into Houston itself. Someday, perhaps.
 
Actually NGEN is new to 91.7 but has been on a translator and online for an extended length of time. If the online numbers demanded a more accessible and free service such as an over the airwaves signal, I would suspect the station would be much further along than it is. This is not a 'new and out of the box' station but one that has been promoted as an online station for a good length of time. And solidly promoted via the reach of KSBJ. It was artfully promoted in KSBJ fundraisers for years.

Compared to the out of the blue launch of KKHH with The Spot has shown what could be described as radio industry front page headline success. KKHH has not had the lengthy awareness building KSBJ has offered NGEN. That tells us something.

I'm not saying NGEN is a failure but perhaps not presented in the right way at this point. I'd be looking at some serious tweaking and more research to build on what is already there.

Regardless of what you think of KSBJ, the station over decades, has become a model for other Contemporary Christian stations to follow. It could very well claim that without their hard work the Contemporary Christian format might not have 'made it' or never amounted to much as opposition was substantial. The NGEN style of Christian music has been around a long time (although music style has evolved it), but it has never had much airplay except for some small stations. That mirrors where Contemporary Christian was in the early days when KSBJ came about. My point is if NGEN has success, it will be because KSBJ's track record has created a path for its success so long as they don't toss the baby out with the bath water. I bring up that last point because the first generation of KSBJ alumni is no longer operating KSBJ.

If we wonder how KJIC might do on a full coverage signal, I'd suspect about as well as any other station in a major market playing the same Southern Gospel music. I think the best you could hope for might be a 1.0 at best even of FM. And KJIC does a good job with what they have.
 
I don't have the energy needed to type out the page and a half that it would take to dive into what all is wrong with NGEN, but there are some glaring issues. No, Frog, you're not the only one that hears the significant difference between it and Air 1. Bill hit in on the head. NGEN has been on 99.5 for years now, and the Foundation's argument has always been "if we only had a full powered Houston signal" for it to air on.

Well, now you do, and it ain't helping a bit. That's $10 million likely never to yield a good ROI. The 0.whatever is not an anomaly, instead the harsh reality (pun be damned) of what NGEN is actually capable of producing in its current incarnation.

Say what you will, but Joe Donalson was spot on right with this one. His motivation and reasoning was all wrong, but he had this failure pegged down to a tee.

What a shame. The real victims here are the broadcasting students at Rice who lost their 50kW home and now are forced to learn and ply their trade on a peewonky L1 broadcasting from the top of the stadium.
 
Well, harsh - I don't really have the time to go into the background of what I think is going on, but there is more than you know. First of all, there are two KSBJ's. one of which was destroyed almost a quarter century ago. Incarnation number 1 was Buddy Holiday's vision of a station for young people, just for young people, that would never sell out to traditionalists. That was the vision I contributed to as a donor - I had two nephews, and wanted a Christian station for them. I had to move from the area for job opportunities, but came back often. KSBJ mode 1 was a welcome change from the horrible Christian radio in the rest of the country except for stations like KLTY in Dallas. There were very creative things like "The Rock of Love" and a Christian oldies show that I remember. Then, all of the sudden, on one trip back into town something changed. The music changed. Gone were all the special, creative shows. It was now "God Listens" and all praise and worship garbage. Unlistenable for a Christian rock fan who loved the old KSBJ. And, unfortunately, unlistenable for the very demographic for which the station was created in the first place. I hear that Buddy Holiday was walked out of the station he founded - disrespectfully. Maybe I heard wrong. But based on what happened to a ministry I was acquainted with in Florida, I had little reason to doubt what I heard. WCIE in Lakeland, FL was at least as influential in the establishment of CCM as KSBJ - and I know for a fact the church that started it conducted an actual "raid" on it to tone down the format. They succeeded, and teenage and young professional listenership went to virtually zero overnight. It came back in a toned down form, but the church intervened again, and put a praise and worship DJ on in the evenings. Not satisfied with even that, they sold it to Moody leaving all of Tampa Bay and Orlando with no CCM station at all, until WPOZ came on the air. The internal changes at KSBj, but I know that the whole Christian music business was overturned. WAPN, where I was doing a show, was on distribution from Sparrow and other record companies. Their monthly CD contained creative, upbeat, fun CCM for a couple of years. We added it. One month it changed. Every single song was slow, plodding, boring, praise and worship. Complete total garbage - unplayable on our show. I thought maybe it was just a bad month. It was not. We got CD after CD of slow boring music, and we started making the long trek to Long's Christian bookstore in Orlando to pay our own money for CD's that were playable. It was a tremendous investment of time and money, as we had to audition the songs right there in the bookstore looking for anything playable. That went on for a couple of years at least, and we amassed quite a good format. Unlike NGEN, our ratings were phenomenal - we out-rated the local top-40 in our timeslot. I am fully convinced that if we had a decent marketing team, we could have taken over that station and made it a real success. Unfortunately - I couldn't sell bottled water in the Sahara desert. Not people oriented. So my guess is that what happened to KSBJ was a nation wide effort on the part of the Christian music labels to tone down CCM and make it more "soccer mom acceptable". They succeeded. KSBJ and stations like it made a ton of money. Big contribution drives, etc. The problem is - soccer moms are aging. The slow boring praise and worship audience is going to literally die off. And all those kids left without Christian radio? They didn't age into the slow and boring praise and worship. The started listening to secular stations, and it is going to be darn hard for KSBJ and the rest of the CCM stations to ever get them back. To KSBJ's credit - they always try to be on the leading edge of the format. Thankfully the awful praise and worship music era seems to be abating and even regular KSBJ is playing much better music than they did even a few years ago. So is KLTY and every other CCM station. But I think they see the future, and it isn't CCM. WPOZ is doing the same thing in Orlando, only they separate the Christian rock and Christian hip-hop formats. Their hip-hop format is having more success than their rock format. Maybe KSBJ is leveraging that experience and applying it to NGEN. Almost a quarter century of praise and worship type CCM cannot be erased overnight, or in a few months. They are not trying to start a station, they are trying to re-invent CCM, and I think they are in it for the long haul. The kids and young professionals are the most coveted demographic for secular stations, because of their spending power. That doesn't translate very well into donation during pledge drives. At least not yet. At some point it probably will. This is a long process of re-establishing a long dead format nationwide. If they succeed, they will definitely be patting themselves on the back - and rightfully so. If they don't, well, they didn't tell the church of tomorrow that they care today. That massive multi-thousand member youth group at the mega-church - their car radio presets are on KRBE and other secular stations. The whole concept of a Christian station that is fun and relevant to them is completely foreign to them. Christian radio - isn't that just for old people? Kind of reminds me of the late 60's - FM - isn't that just for old people? These big shifts take time, and I hope KSBJ will take the time to make it work. The young people and young professionals - abandoned by Christian radio for a quarter century - deserve it. Just as black artist deserved to be heard in the 60's, instead of having their music covered by white artists. These things take time. KSBJ can afford to be patient.
 
I wouldn't be so quick to assume any lacking in my knowledge level with regards to the history of KSBJ, or the Foundation as a whole, Mr. Carter. After all, I am a contributing member.

It is nice to see you have finally learned the proper usage of the word "foreign", though. God speed, Bruce. ;D
 
I will further compare KAWA, a new upstart in the crowded Contemporary Christian format in Dallas/Fort Worth on a very challenged rimshot, is doing much better. Considering Salem's KLTY, KYDA, KCBI and even Keene's KJRN (I hesitate to include), competition for the listener is fierce considering the major players have been at it for decades in the market. KAWA scores a .6 to .8 in those worthless 6+ 6a to 12M ratings. Looking further, their TSLs and AQH numbers are impressive (as nice as the NPR achieves). Certainly KAWA, where it reaches, has developed a loyal following. I have always contended that the real key is the percentage of all weekly radio listening a person stays with their favorite station.

To compare, KAWA has 2.38 times the number of listeners per quarter hour and the amount of time the listener tunes to KAWA weekly is almost triple what KXNG has managed to achieve. I use KAWA to compare because both KXNG and KAWA have been in their respective formats about the same length of time. Respectively, the average KXNG listener tunes in to NGEN for less than 10% of the average time spent with radio weekly. I must consider based on demographics, online listening to NGEN might be substantially higher than a Contemporary Christian listener but regardless, we're talking an expensive signal that is at the bottom of the proverbial barrel on Time Spent Listening weekly. That's a huge problem I'm glad I'm not having to deal with.

It would be interesting to learn the perception of the name 'NGEN' among the prime demographic. What does that say in their mind? Granted, there are things I would sure do differently but that makes me just like everyone else in radio: we all have an opinion and opinion does not mean you are on the right track. From my sampling, I'm not hearing too much that really stands out...the stuff that creates water cooler talk.
 
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Fully agree. Another thing you might notice that holds KXNG and Co. back, IMO and left unstated so far, is the extremely tight rotation. Would you believe Mutemath's "Monument" is still in heavy rotation? How long has it been since that long winded thread was created about that song and its misheard lyrics?? It's like the Foundation has summoned up it's best impersonations, and become the Cumulus of Christian Top 40 radio.

NGEN is supposed to stand for the "Next Generation" of Christian radio. I wonder how many casual listeners ever come across it and wonder why on Earth a radio station in Houston is named the same as what you typically find beneath the hood of a car?
 
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Not quite, Stan. Despite Bruce's take on KSBJ itself, I find it to be an outstanding ministry. KJIC, as previously mentioned, is quite a nice alternative as well. I prefer Air 1 over them all, but my money stays right here in Houston...or up in Humble, as the case were, so my support will always remain with KSBJ.
 
Kind of reminds me of the late 60's - FM - isn't that just for old people?

The "late 60's" in my book was the period from 1967 to 1969. Right?

That's when there was an explosion of formats on FM that were not Mantovanni and Mozart.

The FCC dictate that all larger market simulcasting of non-daytimer AM stations on co-owned FMs that took effeect on January 1 of 1967 created a tidal wave of new format launches. Every market got at least one or more free-form or progressive rocker, and within a year we started seeing the first oldies stations on FM, Spanish language stations and other new-to-the-band formats.

The late 60's on FM was a period for anyone but old people!
 
Not quite, Stan. Despite Bruce's take on KSBJ itself, I find it to be an outstanding ministry. KJIC, as previously mentioned, is quite a nice alternative as well. I prefer Air 1 over them all, but my money stays right here in Houston...or up in Humble, as the case were, so my support will always remain with KSBJ.

It all boils down to your musical taste. I have NGEN on virtually 100% of the time I am listening to the radio - I guess it fits my 62 year old musical taste. You like regular KSBJ? Fine - it is definitely getting better than it was, probably pressure from competitor Air-1. Southern gospel - maybe you like it - maybe some other folks do - I don't see it as the "acceptable" Christian music, or the answer to young people's needs. I unloaded 400 southern gospel albums someone gave me years ago - even drove 20 miles to meet the guy so I could get rid of them. That is about what I think of the format. For somebody else, not me.

I am pretty big on treating people with respect. If that really happened to Buddy Holiday, it is not Christlike. The raid on WCIE - not Christlike. Period. You don't act like that to other people, especially if you are a Christian or more importantly, the leader of a Christian ministry. Besides the obvious lack of ministry to young people, I think the biggest problem churches have is toxic churches with gossip and stupid rules instituted by merely human authority. When I did radio, I was subjected to a fair amount of disrespect, with people doing preaching shows given preference - even getting a free pass when they almost caused a fire at the station - TWICE. We stepped one second over our time allotment, oh boy were we charged for a full extra hour and threatened with cancellation.
 
It all boils down to your musical taste. I have NGEN on virtually 100% of the time I am listening to the radio - I guess it fits my 62 year old musical taste. You like regular KSBJ? Fine - it is definitely getting better than it was, probably pressure from competitor Air-1. Southern gospel - maybe you like it - maybe some other folks do - I don't see it as the "acceptable" Christian music, or the answer to young people's needs. I unloaded 400 southern gospel albums someone gave me years ago - even drove 20 miles to meet the guy so I could get rid of them. That is about what I think of the format. For somebody else, not me.

If that really happened to Buddy Holiday, it is not Christlike. The raid on WCIE - not Christlike. Period. You don't act like that to other people, especially if you are a Christian or more importantly, the leader of a Christian ministry. Besides the obvious lack of ministry to young people, I think the biggest problem churches have is toxic churches with gossip and stupid rules instituted by merely human authority. When I did radio, I was subjected to a fair amount of disrespect, with people doing preaching shows given preference - even getting a free pass when they almost caused a fire at the station - TWICE. We stepped one second over our time allotment, oh boy were we charged for a full extra hour and threatened with cancellation.
A well thought out and expressed opinion. Your viewpoint is valid and I respect your stance.

I am pretty big on treating people with respect.

That pretty well sums up what I love about you most, Bruce. Your tolerance and respect for your fellow man.
 
Halten, let me please play Devi's Advocate here....
I hear people say, "If one can't make it as a legitimate rock and roll star, then
become a Christian Rock and Roll Star." Next, at Christian Rock Concerts, groupies
engage in drugs and sex. Mostly sex. Back stage. That's what I am told from those who
venture to those venues. I have listen to ministers say so down at the doughnut shop.
I'm NOT argumentative this or that, I hear peoples comments on the subject.
 
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