Feb 2017 Numbers are Interesting!
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Thread: Feb 2017 Numbers are Interesting!

  1. #1

    Feb 2017 Numbers are Interesting!

    Pouring over the Nielsen numbers and already finding some curious "listening..."
    Check this out. WSB FM is tied with Power 96 in teen listening 12-17, 7P-Midnight . B98.5 did the same share with HALF the cume! Is WSB-FM teen TSL REALLY beating 96.1 that much??!! Also...Q's share is a fifth of the WSB-FM number on the SAME cume!
    Roddy will have to 'splain this to me....

  2. #2
    Well, I'm honored that you asked me to answer your questions.

    WSB-FM certainly has a higher TSL than WWPW because their P 6+ cumes are fairly close but WSB-FM has a much higher share. And as far as Q100, CHR's are notorious for high turnover, i.e. high cumes and low TSL.

    That said, the real answer is probably that the PPM sample for 12-17 from 7PM-midnight is really small and results in questionable numbers.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by RoddyFreeman View Post
    Well, I'm honored that you asked me to answer your questions.

    WSB-FM certainly has a higher TSL than WWPW because their P 6+ cumes are fairly close but WSB-FM has a much higher share. And as far as Q100, CHR's are notorious for high turnover, i.e. high cumes and low TSL.

    That said, the real answer is probably that the PPM sample for 12-17 from 7PM-midnight is really small and results in questionable numbers.
    Would you think this is teen listening while in the company of a parent? I guess it struck me as strange because WSB-FM is hardly a "cool" station in kid circles...you have to wonder if the meter has been sitting next to mom's radio the last couple of books!
    Watching my kids (CHR/country/hip-hop) I know that the button gets hit practically every song. If the same station survives for two or more songs the button always gets pressed when talk or commercials come on.
    Roddy...I know you rep companies and buy a lot of radio. How confident are you in Nielsen's product? Do you simply wash out the wobbles? Does it boil down to "gut" instinct for buys or is it objective, "by the numbers" for you?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by wavo View Post
    Would you think this is teen listening while in the company of a parent? I guess it struck me as strange because WSB-FM is hardly a "cool" station in kid circles...you have to wonder if the meter has been sitting next to mom's radio the last couple of books!
    Watching my kids (CHR/country/hip-hop) I know that the button gets hit practically every song. If the same station survives for two or more songs the button always gets pressed when talk or commercials come on.
    Roddy...I know you rep companies and buy a lot of radio. How confident are you in Nielsen's product? Do you simply wash out the wobbles? Does it boil down to "gut" instinct for buys or is it objective, "by the numbers" for you?
    Yes, it's very possible. Cumes got much larger with PPM because the meter picks up 1) Listening that people failed to report in the diary, and 2) Listening by other people in close proximity.

    I'm not an expert on the PPM methodology so I can't comment from that perspective. As a layman, my opinion is the ratings are reliable by virtue of the stability of the numbers. I rarely see a big sudden change from month to month unless there is an obvious reason, such as 92-9 The Game with the Falcons in January or WSB with the start of the Trump presidency.

  5. #5

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    As someone said, diaries represent partisanship, while PPMs represent exposure. They aren't necessarily the same.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoddyFreeman View Post
    Yes, it's very possible. Cumes got much larger with PPM because the meter picks up 1) Listening that people failed to report in the diary, and 2) Listening by other people in close proximity.
    The principal change compared with diary measurement that we saw when the PPM was introduced was the increase in measured listening to secondary stations in each listener's array of used stations.

    In the diary, the most foreground and memorable stations got a higher proportion of listening, while the stations that were second and third in usage often were revealed to have been under measured in the diary. This is because the diary depended to a great degree on the ability of listeners to remember what they had listened to and for how long and then to write it down later in the day or week.

    So, in radio terms, a listener's P2 or P3 station often got short changed, while the P1 station usually got exaggerated TSL.

    While the PPM does measure exposure, listening to stations that were not chosen by the listener tends to be for short periods so the amount of TSL given to such stations is small, so the impact on ratings was much less when we compared the pre-PPM and Post-PPM numbers at the time of transition.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidEduardo View Post


    The principal change compared with diary measurement that we saw when the PPM was introduced was the increase in measured listening to secondary stations in each listener's array of used stations.

    In the diary, the most foreground and memorable stations got a higher proportion of listening, while the stations that were second and third in usage often were revealed to have been under measured in the diary. This is because the diary depended to a great degree on the ability of listeners to remember what they had listened to and for how long and then to write it down later in the day or week.

    So, in radio terms, a listener's P2 or P3 station often got short changed, while the P1 station usually got exaggerated TSL.

    While the PPM does measure exposure, listening to stations that were not chosen by the listener tends to be for short periods so the amount of TSL given to such stations is small, so the impact on ratings was much less when we compared the pre-PPM and Post-PPM numbers at the time of transition.
    That is one of the things that surprises me...WSB-FM teen TSL must be unusually high as cume is half of Power96 with the same share. This is the second trend where WSB-FM has high teen share 7p-Midnight.

    Should unintentional listening even count? If you're not really listening to the extraneous "noise" should you count as a listener? Does subliminal advertising work and, if so, deserve to be measured?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by wavo View Post
    That is one of the things that surprises me...WSB-FM teen TSL must be unusually high as cume is half of Power96 with the same share. This is the second trend where WSB-FM has high teen share 7p-Midnight.

    Should unintentional listening even count? If you're not really listening to the extraneous "noise" should you count as a listener? Does subliminal advertising work and, if so, deserve to be measured?
    Wavo, I think the WSB-FM situation with teens from 7PM-midnight is just a function of a small sample size.

    When someone carrying a meter goes into a place of business and picks up the station that's playing, that's such a small amount of listening that it has little effect on ratings. However, when a radio is played in a workplace and picked up by someone else's meter all day, I'm not so sure that's extraneous. Keep in mind the volume has to be at a certain level for the meter to pick up the station. (That's what was said by an Arbitron representative back when the meter was about to be introduced in Atlanta.) Shortly after the PPM was introduced, midday became the most listened-to daypart.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by wavo View Post
    That is one of the things that surprises me...WSB-FM teen TSL must be unusually high as cume is half of Power96 with the same share. This is the second trend where WSB-FM has high teen share 7p-Midnight.
    As Roddy says, this is likely a function of the small sample size, of which an even smaller number listen to radio at night. The ability of a few young panelists to skew the night numbers is very real.

    If you look at the math, this is very apparent. Let's say the sample is 1,500 persons. The Atlanta Persons Using Radio is around 10% 6 AM to Midnight, but at night it is closer to 6%. So at night, at any given time, they are 90 meters in use to measure all the listening in Atlanta. For a 5 share station, that is around 4 to 5 meters, of which only one or two might be in any broad demo cell.

    Should unintentional listening even count? If you're not really listening to the extraneous "noise" should you count as a listener? Does subliminal advertising work and, if so, deserve to be measured?
    Advertisers more or less obligated radio to adopt electronic measurement because they demanded faster delivery and measurement of ad impressions. In other words, intentional listening is not as important as whether people heard the ad or not.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidEduardo View Post

    Advertisers more or less obligated radio to adopt electronic measurement because they demanded faster delivery and measurement of ad impressions. In other words, intentional listening is not as important as whether people heard the ad or not.
    And let's be clear about this: Advertisers know what they're buying. There's a similar statistic with YouTube, where viewers are allowed to opt out of an ad after :10. Advertisers get that statistic, and they know how many people saw only :10 of an ad, and how many sat though the entire thing. When I watch a YouTube video, I'm focused so hard on that opt-out button, I could never tell you what the ad was for. But it will count as a partial view of the ad nonetheless.

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