Why would KJAQ not be listened to at work? In fact, Adult Hits formats do very well at work locations. Keep in mind that "work" can be a delivery truck, a construction site, a stockroom or a factory... not just offices.
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Entercom and CBS to Merge
- Thread starter KXA
- Start date
Why would KJAQ not be listened to at work? In fact, Adult Hits formats do very well at work locations. Keep in mind that "work" can be a delivery truck, a construction site, a stockroom or a factory... not just offices.
LITTLEBOYBLUE
Star Participant
I was saying that, like they did in Sacramento, any successful format (and hence the revenue) can move to any facility and essentially preserve the revenue. Therefore, a prime factor in "what to keep" would be hanging on to best signal/coverage properties and, if necessary, adjusting the formats accordingly.
While presets have negated the logic SOMEWHAT, the idea of keeping the best signals that would be "in the middle" of FM band are also a minor consideration -- but at the same time, in recent years some of the big billers have still been those near either end (92.5, for example). The logic here more from when people did manual tuning, but still might be a FACTOR in mapping out the ideal portfolio. That is also an artifact of older thinking, which may be a hazard of being in the radio game since 1971.
LITTLEBOYBLUE
Star Participant
CBS already went through that once when they held both KMPS and YOUNG COUNTRY @ 96.5. As you say, they separated the product and created a niche for each one. In current case, WOLF/KMPS are much more similar (and each has, over time, made fine-tuning in style to match the other a little more closely). CBS did similar challenge in HOU when they had two country's there; but eventually dropped one completely ... as they did in SEA when JACK came along.
iamarussianpirate
Frequent Participant
Again, your facts are completely flawed. KMPS hasn't been a top biller in YEARS. They're sitting around #15 in total revenue for 2016.
And they're not top rating either. Jan-Dec '16 avg, they're sitting at #15 A25-54, #10 W25-54 and #18 M25-54 in prime. Prime rates on KMPS are hovering around $100. Prime rates on KISW are $250-300.
The station hasn't been on solid ground since PPM launched in 2009. KKWF has been dominant since then, give or take short periods here and there.
And you know this how? Your conclusion isn't from 6+ published numbers right?
iamarussianpirate
Frequent Participant
No, they're not 6+, read the post. A25-54, W25-54, M25-54. I know because I pulled a ranker right before I typed my post.
Billing #'s are based on MillerKaplan, which is a 3rd party accounting firm that each station/group reports their revenue to. It's the industry standard.
Rates are based on what I've seen on submissions over the last year or so.
Billing #'s are based on MillerKaplan, which is a 3rd party accounting firm that each station/group reports their revenue to. It's the industry standard.
Rates are based on what I've seen on submissions over the last year or so.
They were in the top tier in 2015. And if you look at MK, clusters allocate cluster revenue somewhat arbitrarily. I am familiar with a SD cluster where both FMs reported identical revenue to MK (it made the top biller look less like a target to others) while sales demo ratings were 3:1 for one of the stations.
Other analysts look at the reported cluster revenue and adjust the reality.
Yes, they are off, but an average of Q4 without the non-coms and without Holiday puts them in the top 10. And there is so much compression from 5th to 10th that there is really a statistical tie for 5th, particularly if rating, not share, are used.
Q4 2016 is hardly an isolated short period. They beat KKWF by a full share point in 25-54.
I suspect we have an Entercom seller among us.
I've always thought that manual tuning was focused on where a particular market's biggest stations were, whether FM or even AM.
When there are leading stations at the bottom end of the FM dial, it can be reasoned that the other stations in between them might have benefited. But with push-buttons being standard in car radios for eons, and with low end home radios for the most part having fairly easy tip to top of the band tuning, I don't see a huge benefit from being at the center of the FM dial. And I've got a decade or so in radio on you!
A
AQH
Guest
It's hardly "spinning".
We have seen in market after market that station clusters that report to MK have "unusual" methods of allocating revenue. Since a significant part of most cluster revenue comes from multi-station buys, it is up to station management to somewhat artificially allocate the way the revenue is divided to each station. That is why the individual station figures are subject to interpretation.
There are third parties that look at other factors, such as typical power ratios, heritage, etc., for each station and format within clusters and they allocate revenue in better proportion to reality. They also talk with managers and even agencies in the markets to get opinions on actual individual station revenue.
The Q4 2016 data is pure un-spinnable Nielsen.
CarAgencyGuy
Frequent Participant
From the numbers I've seen KKWF and KMPS have traded positions as the #1 country station over the last couple of years. The old sales adage used to be "if there are two country stations in the market, one will make money, if there are three, two will make money". That's probably an oversimplification but still there is room for sure for two country signals in this market and so whether the same company owns them or not, they have to be competitive with the market in spot costs- if there are two country stations owned by one owner, and they are not efficiently priced, then we advertisers just go buy other formats. It has to make sense from a sales perspective, no matter who owns it.
P.S David, thanks for the kind words and your insights are usually pretty insightful and I would venture that most of us on this board are happy to have you along.
P.S David, thanks for the kind words and your insights are usually pretty insightful and I would venture that most of us on this board are happy to have you along.
Seattle Radio groups
Here's what we know about Seattle Radio Market. Here's the current radio group owners.
Entercom
KISW 99.9 Active Rock
KKWF 100.7 Country
KHTP 103.7 Rhythmic Oldies
KNDD 107.7 Modern Rock
CBS Radio
KFNQ 1090 Sports
KMPS 94.1 Country
KJAQ 96.5 Adult Hits
KZOK 102.5 Classic Rock
Bonneville
KIRO 710 Sports
KTTH 770 Talk
KIRO-FM 100.7 News/Talk
Hubbard Broadcasting
KIXI 880 Adult Standards
KKNW 1150 Talk
KQMV 92.5 CHR
KVRQ 98.9 Rock
KRWM 106.9 Adult Contemporary
iHeart Media
KHHO 850 Sports
KJR 950 Sports
KPWX 93.3 CHR
KJR-FM 95.7 Classic Hits
KFOO 102.9 Modern Rock
KUBE 104.9 CHR-Rhythmic
KBKS 106.1 Hot AC
Sinclair Broadcasting
KVI 570 Talk
KOMO 1000 News
KPLZ 101.5 Hot AC
Salem Media
KGNW 820 Christian Talk
KKOL 1300 Business News
KLFE 1590 Talk
KNTS 1680 Spanish Christian
If Entercom/CBS merge, than we know that they have to divest 2FM stations. We know that other radio groups except for iHeart Media (maxed out) can add 2 more radio stations to their groups. Which group will take 2 radio stations? If iHeart takes it, than they have to divest 104.9 or 102.9 from their radio group.
Here's what we know about Seattle Radio Market. Here's the current radio group owners.
Entercom
KISW 99.9 Active Rock
KKWF 100.7 Country
KHTP 103.7 Rhythmic Oldies
KNDD 107.7 Modern Rock
CBS Radio
KFNQ 1090 Sports
KMPS 94.1 Country
KJAQ 96.5 Adult Hits
KZOK 102.5 Classic Rock
Bonneville
KIRO 710 Sports
KTTH 770 Talk
KIRO-FM 100.7 News/Talk
Hubbard Broadcasting
KIXI 880 Adult Standards
KKNW 1150 Talk
KQMV 92.5 CHR
KVRQ 98.9 Rock
KRWM 106.9 Adult Contemporary
iHeart Media
KHHO 850 Sports
KJR 950 Sports
KPWX 93.3 CHR
KJR-FM 95.7 Classic Hits
KFOO 102.9 Modern Rock
KUBE 104.9 CHR-Rhythmic
KBKS 106.1 Hot AC
Sinclair Broadcasting
KVI 570 Talk
KOMO 1000 News
KPLZ 101.5 Hot AC
Salem Media
KGNW 820 Christian Talk
KKOL 1300 Business News
KLFE 1590 Talk
KNTS 1680 Spanish Christian
If Entercom/CBS merge, than we know that they have to divest 2FM stations. We know that other radio groups except for iHeart Media (maxed out) can add 2 more radio stations to their groups. Which group will take 2 radio stations? If iHeart takes it, than they have to divest 104.9 or 102.9 from their radio group.
A
AQH
Guest
Your retort used different metrics than pirate, and you now justify by questioning the methodology. That's a textbook definition of spin, precisely what Spicer does everyday. But he's more entertaining and with a fraction of the ego.
Yes. I use better metrics.
The metrics of the premier third party analyst... the "go to" source for the industry... has the advantage of going beyond the reported MK station numbers and applying interpretation on what each station is actually billing.
This is the same reasoning that marketers don't generally use raw Census and ACS population data, preferring to use data from companies like Claritas which cross-tabulate Census data with other sources which makes it more complete and accurate.
I am not questioning MK. I am saying... and I gave an example of a cluster that totally "modified" its MK reports... that MK data accurate at the cluster level but may be very wrong at the individual station level. In the past, some stations were fudging the date on radio revenue by the way they included non-traditional revenue. MK worked best when owners could only have one AM and one FM.
iamarussianpirate
Frequent Participant
First, I am not an Entercom seller. I threw up in my mouth a little when you said that.
Second, your anecdote about a group in South Dakota is amusing, but that's a stretch. Miller Kaplan is HIGHLY scrutinized by management at each group and they request to have anomalies investigated when things don't look right. KMPS is not a top biller in the market, period.
Finally, the Q4 ratings numbers you provided simply aren't correct. On a Dec/Nov/Oct 16 avg, ranked by share on M-Su 6a-12m, they don't beat KKWF by a full share (try 1/3 of that). They are ranked #9, and KKWF is ranked #11t. In prime KMPS is #7t and KKWF is #10. The difference in rating is about 1/5 of what you quoted.
Yes, KMPS might be beating KKWF in the country battle right now, but that means nothing when country isn't doing well as a whole. That would be like talking about how great the Texans were for winning the AFC south when they were the 10th best team in the NFL. KMPS has struggled in a big way since 2009. Yes they are a heritage station, I get that. But to say they are a top tier station in this market in ratings or billing is simply not true.
San Diego, not South Dakota. And the issue of cluster revenue allocation is something that is noted in many, many markets as cluster sales of two or more stations is often allocated "at will" to the individual stations in that cluster.
I'm looking at 25-54, just to be clear. I ran it again and you are right. The 3.5 for KKWF is still below the 3.8 of KMPS. I think I was looking at Sept-Oct-Nov as I generally don't look at December or Holiday for any analysis or comparison for obvious reasons.
Then what we are arguing about is a definition of "Top Tier". In general, in Top 20 markets "Top Tier" in my opinion is the top 10 stations. Depending on the degree of compression, that tier might be a dozen station. In top 10 markets, the Top Tier might be 15 stations, and in the top 5, perhaps 20 station.
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