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The reason AM Radio is dead

DanielBoone said:
That is because KFPT and KCBL are sports stations, and I bet the owners feel there are more listeners for those types of formats versus oldies music. It seems to me the sports stations get more respect than talk or music stations.

I also, believe AM radio is more vulnerable to noise. THAT the reason for AM radio dying. I am surprised by now, AM radio has not been improved in terms of sound quality, especially with all of the new technology there is out there these days.
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Well we do know one thing. The people who own KFPT, KYNO, consider KYNO to have the better signal, at least in places where people actually are. Before 940 became "the local sports leader" that format was carried by the same owners (well half of them really) on 1430, they bought KFPT when the local CBS cluster was sold to Peak Broadcasting, and no I don't know if Peak sold it to them or CBS. Either way KFPT was always "the deuce", they are valuing the oldies and Fresno Grizzlies games over the secondary sports content heard on KFPT. KFPT is actually simulcasting 940 ESPN (KFIG, but no one calls it that) much of the day. KFPT exists for when the A's play at the same time as the Giants (apply the same to football, basketball, hockey on a slow sport day), or any sport happens during a Fresno State game. Also when a person doesn't give two whatevers about local sports talk they could listen to the ESPN network feed on KFPT. KCBL sounds great where you can hear it, but it is only 1000 watts so that isn't very far, and that is my point about value. All three stations sound just fine in the metro Fresno/Clovis area. Which one would sell for the most money? Format doesn't matter. KYNO seems to have the best range, where people actually live, but get stepped on at sunrise, sunset.

As far as the viability of AM radio, the only things that seem to be doing fine on it are sports and ethnic. If oldies was even much of a format anymore KYNO would be 105.5. It's not really noise for people in cities, we have a whole generation now who never even thought to push the BAND button, and yes most AM radios sound horrible no matter how much effort the station puts in the sound processing. I have a few radios that some AM stations (good processing) sound really good on, but I would rarely choose even the good AM stations over FM's playing the same thing.
 
brettbutlerisok said:
Well we do know one thing. The people who own KFPT, KYNO, consider KYNO to have the better signal, at least in places where people actually are. Before 940 became "the local sports leader" that format was carried by the same owners (well half of them really) on 1430, they bought KFPT when the local CBS cluster was sold to Peak Broadcasting, and no I don't know if Peak sold it to them or CBS. Either way KFPT was always "the deuce", they are valuing the oldies and Fresno Grizzlies games over the secondary sports content heard on KFPT. KFPT is actually simulcasting 940 ESPN (KFIG, but no one calls it that) much of the day. KFPT exists for when the A's play at the same time as the Giants (apply the same to football, basketball, hockey on a slow sport day), or any sport happens during a Fresno State game. Also when a person doesn't give two whatevers about local sports talk they could listen to the ESPN network feed on KFPT. KCBL sounds great where you can hear it, but it is only 1000 watts so that isn't very far, and that is my point about value. All three stations sound just fine in the metro Fresno/Clovis area. Which one would sell for the most money? Format doesn't matter. KYNO seems to have the best range, where people actually live, but get stepped on at sunrise, sunset.

As far as the viability of AM radio, the only things that seem to be doing fine on it are sports and ethnic. If oldies was even much of a format anymore KYNO would be 105.5. It's not really noise for people in cities, we have a whole generation now who never even thought to push the BAND button, and yes most AM radios sound horrible no matter how much effort the station puts in the sound processing. I have a few radios that some AM stations (good processing) sound really good on, but I would rarely choose even the good AM stations over FM's playing the same thing.
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In the last Ratings(Summer) KYNO was higher than 3 of One-Putt's FMs, KJWL, KFRR , and KJZN, It makes you think why isn't KYNOs format on one of those stations, if a music AM gets better ratings than those FMs.
 
kenrayc said:
In the last Ratings(Summer) KYNO was higher than 3 of One-Putt's FMs, KJWL, KFRR , and KJZN, It makes you think why isn't KYNOs format on one of those stations, if a music AM gets better ratings than those FMs.
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Same old story - I'll save DE the trouble of posting here - though he's always welcome. Demos demos demos. Can't sell old farts. Overall 'ratings' don't count for anything. Even KCBL probably bills more than KYNO. Seems sports fans can be counted on to part with their cash much easier than old foggies.
OK i know David would say it much more eloquently than I. ;)
 
mofocat said:
Same old story - I'll save DE the trouble of posting here - though he's always welcome. Demos demos demos. Can't sell old farts. Overall 'ratings' don't count for anything. Even KCBL probably bills more than KYNO. Seems sports fans can be counted on to part with their cash much easier than old foggies.
OK i know David would say it much more eloquently than I. ;)
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You did just fine.

And KCBL does outbill KYNO.

KYNO has below a 1 share on average in 25-54. The One-Putt stations do better.

And, while Fresno does have enough agency business to justify buying ratings, most sales are local direct where looking at the numbers is secondary (if used at all) to relationships, service and the ability to generate sales.

When stations are around 20th or so in the sales demos, you are not going to get much... if any... agency business anyway.
 
DE said, "And, while Fresno does have enough agency business to justify buying ratings, most sales are local direct where looking at the numbers is secondary (if used at all) to relationships, service and the ability to generate sales. " This is exactly why I thought 'maybe' KYNO 'might' bill better than KCBL, given the local community involvement of One-Putt. But, I opted to not underestimate the pied piper effect of sports in the media. Regarding One-putt's 3 AMs, I think having sports on the best signal, 940, with the least signal, 790, as a kind of back-up, fill in for schedule conflicts, then pulling an entirely different audience on the regional 1430 is a good tactic.
 
mofocat said:
DE said, "And, while Fresno does have enough agency business to justify buying ratings, most sales are local direct where looking at the numbers is secondary (if used at all) to relationships, service and the ability to generate sales. " This is exactly why I thought 'maybe' KYNO 'might' bill better than KCBL, given the local community involvement of One-Putt. But, I opted to not underestimate the pied piper effect of sports in the media. Regarding One-putt's 3 AMs, I think having sports on the best signal, 940, with the least signal, 790, as a kind of back-up, fill in for schedule conflicts, then pulling an entirely different audience on the regional 1430 is a good tactic.
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I understand now, the numbers I saw from Arbitron Summer ratings 12+ showed KYNO 1.6, KFRR 1.6, KJWL 1.2 and KJZN 1.0, KFIG 0.7 and KCBL 0.7 and 790 not listed, funny thing though about 6 years ago when KJWL was playing Classic Hits they were always in the top 10, when they started competing with KSOF, playing currents they dropped big time, One-Putts big winner was KJFX 95.7 had a 4.0.
 
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mofocat said:
Same old story - I'll save DE the trouble of posting here - though he's always welcome. Demos demos demos. Can't sell old farts. Overall 'ratings' don't count for anything. Even KCBL probably bills more than KYNO. Seems sports fans can be counted on to part with their cash much easier than old foggies.
OK i know David would say it much more eloquently than I. ;)
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Yes you are right, I turned 55 this year so I'm officially an old fart according to radio, which targets 12-54, especially Music stations, It's like when you turn 55 you stop buying things and stop listening to the radio.
 
kenrayc said:
Yes you are right, I turned 55 this year so I'm officially an old fart according to radio, which targets 12-54, especially Music stations, It's like when you turn 55 you stop buying things and stop listening to the radio.
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"Nope" on several counts. Graphically, :confused:

Radio stations of the commercial sort target some subset of the 18 to 54 age range. That's because, for the most part, advertisers target the same age range. There is no money spent to reach teens on the radio, and essentially none spent to reach seniors (unless your station is in The Villages).

And, for the umpteenth time, it is not about 55+ "buying things". It is about the fact that it takes more ad impressions to sway the buying patterns of older people, making it too expensive to make the sale.
 
DavidEduardo said:


There is no money spent to reach teens on the radio, and essentially none spent to reach seniors (unless your station is in The Villages).

And, for the umpteenth time, it is not about 55+ "buying things". It is about the fact that it takes more ad impressions to sway the buying patterns of older people, making it too expensive to make the sale.
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It could also be that seniors have heard it all before and distrust commercials in their entirety whereas youngsters are too naive to know better - even the ones graduating college with a degree in marketing.
 
Daytimers started from the very earliest days of broadcasting. I think it was the mid 1950s ('52 or '53?) when minimum hours regulations came in for stations with nighttime authorization.

The "micro power at night" refers to daytimers who now have under 250 watts at night. Until the 1980s (unsure on the year) you would not be granted a nighttime authorization if the proposed night power was under 250 watts. Now we have class D stations authorized for one measly watt.
 
MarioMania said:
A Questions

When did Daytimers start, Like what year?

also what's a micro power at night?
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I believe as a class, they were a product of the 1937-1938 redistribution of frequencies by the Federal Radio Commission. Previously, a large percentage of stations shared channels with others, and operated in coordination with them. Other stations were hobbyist run, with powers as low as 10 watts. You can trace the status of stations over the years by looking at the radio station listings and logbooks at http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Radio_Log_Master_Page.htm

Some of the lists go back to the very early 20's. The "pick of the litter" would be the White's Radio Logs. You can also look at the Radex logs at http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Radex_Master_Page.htm with the first one being from 1925.

It is not until the very early 30's (under the FRC and not the FCC) that we see in-print reference to daytimers, mostly in Radex listings.
 
Thanks David

Can a Daytimer status like KDYA in Vallejo, CA have like Micro Power like 5 watts to Cover the city at Night, Even know KEX has Nighttime in CA?
 
MarioMania said:
Thanks David

Can a Daytimer status like KDYA in Vallejo, CA have like Micro Power like 5 watts to Cover the city at Night, Even know KEX has Nighttime in CA?
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I believe the daytime status of the Vallejo station is what got them an expanded band operation in the first place. They should no longer be on the air.! I believe the understanding was that clear channels would have their skywave coverage protected to 650 miles, so in this case, that's pretty close.
 
kenrayc said:
In the last Ratings(Summer) KYNO was higher than 3 of One-Putt's FMs, KJWL, KFRR , and KJZN, It makes you think why isn't KYNOs format on one of those stations, if a music AM gets better ratings than those FMs.
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It says something about the demand for that genre of music, even if KYNO isn't hitting any key demos. At this point it seems if one putt did put KYNO on FM and it did better, I heart would just find a way to crush it, maybe bring back KFSO? I only say that cause I hear they do it around the country, and even here 103.7 has changed from the edgy alternative to 97.9 (80's and 90's hip hop, and some hardcore rap) to a softer alternative (hardcore rap as recent as 2010 with some hip hop pop) to KJZN's hard core rap.

Why they grabbed the bull's horns and took KJWL head on with KSOF, I will never know.
 
brettbutlerisok said:
It says something about the demand for that genre of music, even if KYNO isn't hitting any key demos. At this point it seems if one putt did put KYNO on FM and it did better, I heart would just find a way to crush it, maybe bring back KFSO? I only say that cause I hear they do it around the country, and even here 103.7 has changed from the edgy alternative to 97.9 (80's and 90's hip hop, and some hardcore rap) to a softer alternative (hardcore rap as recent as 2010 with some hip hop pop) to KJZN's hard core rap.

Why they grabbed the bull's horns and took KJWL head on with KSOF, I will never know.
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You just made a good point all stations you mention are R&B only, why can't One-Putt do a true Next Gen 80s format, that plays all genre 80s like New Wave, Hard Rock, Popular R&B, & all of the rest example playlist would be Prince, Def Leppard, Spandu Balet ,Duran Duran, Bruce, Tears for Fear, Run DMC, Whitesnake, TheCure, Journey, Michael Jackson, The Psychedelic Furs, Modonna, and Blondie. Sooo Many 80s NOT PLAYED IN FRESNO, The FOX deosnt cover enough, they concentrate on the big Rock Gods and is more 70s which is fine, we just need that 80s Alternative to the Fox, KFRR is 90s and Beyond, so that's the biggest missing format in Fresno,.
 
kenrayc said:
You just made a good point all stations you mention are R&B only, why can't One-Putt do a true Next Gen 80s format, that plays all genre 80s like New Wave, Hard Rock, Popular R&B, & all of the rest example playlist would be Prince, Def Leppard, Spandu Balet ,Duran Duran, Bruce, Tears for Fear, Run DMC, Whitesnake, TheCure, Journey, Michael Jackson, The Psychedelic Furs, Modonna, and Blondie. Sooo Many 80s NOT PLAYED IN FRESNO, The FOX deosnt cover enough, they concentrate on the big Rock Gods and is more 70s which is fine, we just need that 80s Alternative to the Fox, KFRR is 90s and Beyond, so that's the biggest missing format in Fresno,.
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Fresno is 70% ethnic, between Hispanic, Black and Asian. Those facts will indicate where the audience is. The list you suggest is too white for that market today.
 
DavidEduardo said:


Fresno is 70% ethnic, between Hispanic, Black and Asian. Those facts will indicate where the audience is. The list you suggest is too white for that market today.
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Would it work if Kool & the Gang, Ray Parker Jr., New Edition, Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam, Sheila E. and other R&B/rhythmic acts that survived the "whitening" effect of MTV on 1980s CHR were included in the mix? I noticed that kenrayc suggested that the format include "Popular R&B," but the only black artists he listed were Prince and Michael Jackson, neither of whom was a pure R&B performer.

Why is it that non-minority music fans have no problem appreciating and becoming fans of minority genres, yet the crossover bridge remains one-way traffic? The argument is always that the audience needs to relate to the performer and the musical style, but that doesn't explain all the suburban, white rap fans in comparison to the nearly total resistance to hard rock and hot country by urban black and Latino listeners.

Also, unless it's strictly the skin color of the guys singing it, why isn't Spandau Ballet's "True" considered an R&B song? Always sounded perfect for "quiet storm" formats to these ears.
 
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CTListener said:
Would it work if Kool & the Gang, Ray Parker Jr., New Edition, Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam, Sheila E. and other R&B/rhythmic acts that survived the "whitening" effect of MTV on 1980s CHR were included in the mix? I noticed that kenrayc suggested that the format include "Popular R&B," but the only black artists he listed were Prince and Michael Jackson, neither of whom was a pure R&B performer.

Why is it that non-minority music fans have no problem appreciating and becoming fans of minority genres, yet the crossover bridge remains one-way traffic? The argument is always that the audience needs to relate to the performer and the musical style, but that doesn't explain all the suburban, white rap fans in comparison to the nearly total resistance to hard rock and hot country by urban black and Latino listeners.

Also, unless it's strictly the skin color of the guys singing it, why isn't Spandau Ballet's "True" considered an R&B song? Always sounded perfect for "quiet storm" formats to these ears.
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I would've included Rick James, Cameo, Billy Ocean, The Gap Band and etc, just all I thought of at the time.
So a station like KOLA 99.9 or KRTH 101.1 won't work here in Fresno?
 
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