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Can AM "Revitalization" get any sillier with 10 watt directional translator?

J

jimbo

Frequent Participant
Can AM "Revitalization" get any sillier with 10 watt directional translator?

15-KSTP is applying for a 10 watt directional FM translator on 94.1 atop the IDS center. There's an LP on 94.1 in St. Paul so KSTP is proposing a highly directional system to stave off interference. But really now, 10 watts on FM will "revitalize" a 50,000 watt AM station? Seems like a reach to me. Would 10 watts even trip the FM scan of a car radio? I live near some 250 watt translators that don't pause my car radio scan when I am 5 miles from their tower.

I think I gave away my age with that 15-KSTP reference. :)
 
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simple....to provide a FM signal that will penetrate buildings in downtown Mpls whereas the AM will have static or not penetrate well
 
jimbo said:
Would 10 watts even trip the FM scan of a car radio?
Click to expand...

It should in the nearby area.

Cheap station to run after the initial investment. If it can be heard in a area of town lots of people go to, and run scans in, who knows? Maybe the person likes what they hear and switches to AM on the way back to the suburbs. I like it!
 
brettbutlerisok said:
It should in the nearby area.

Cheap station to run after the initial investment. If it can be heard in a area of town lots of people go to, and run scans in, who knows? Maybe the person likes what they hear and switches to AM on the way back to the suburbs. I like it!
Click to expand...

Most listeners know when they press a certain preset on their radio, they hear whatever programming. It remains to be seen whether listeners will move from listening to an FM translator in their office building to the same programming in their car on the way home. Beyond just signal penetration issues, impulse noise from computer monitors, switching power supplies, light dimmers, elevator control systems, LED lights, transformers, etc., all increase the broadband noise floor in office buildings. Assuming your average listener could even hear a 10W FM, I suspect they won't make the connection between the translator and AM primary station.
 
some updates...1st the app was dismissed

per northpine

The FCC has dismissed an application to move an FM translator into the Twin Cities over concerns about interference to an existing low-power FM station. During last year's AM revitalization filing window, Hubbard Radio applied to move a translator license from Bemidji to Minneapolis, where it would have transmitted on 94.1 with 10 Watts from the IDS Center. The translator would've relayed Hubbard's "1500 ESPN" (KSTP St. Paul) and would've used a directional antenna to limit the signal towards WFNU-LP/94.1 (St. Paul). WFNU objected, saying the proposed translator would prevent reception by some current listeners. The FCC has now decided that WFNU has provided sufficient evidence of WFNU listenership within the translator's proposed coverage area and dismissed the application.

so now Hubbard amended it to a TWO WATT translator
Hubbard Radio is asking the FCC to consider an amended application to move an FM signal into Minneapolis to relay its "1500 ESPN" (KSTP St. Paul). Earlier this month, the FCC rejected an AM Revitalization application to move K235BP (Bemidji) to Minneapolis on 94.1 over concerns about potential interference to WFNU-LP/94.1 (St. Paul). Hubbard has now amended the application to specify a 2-Watt directional signal from the IDS Center, down from 10 Watts in the original application. The lower wattage puts more distance between the coverage areas of the proposed translator and WFNU-LP. Hubbard separately filed a petition for reconsideration asking the FCC to consider the amendment.
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101761477&qnum=5160&copynum=1&exhcnum=3
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101761485&qnum=5000&copynum=1&exhcnum=1
 
unclehonkey said:
The FCC has dismissed an application to move an FM translator into the Twin Cities over concerns about interference to an existing low-power FM station.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I was led to believe that everything, including translators, would have precedence over an LPFM. I guess not. So much for AM revitalization.
 
I figured Class D stations have priority over translators. In this case the LP station is already on the air and the translator wants to impede part of its coverage. Here is the decline letter the FCC sent them
http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getimportletter_exh.cgi?import_letter_id=77482

This is not the first time these move in translators have had issues with interference...here is another one
The "Air 1" Christian Hits FM signal that recently moved from Minneapolis to St. Paul now has FCC permission to move back to Minneapolis. Educational Media Foundation's W225AP/92.9 had been transmitting with 99 Watts from the Wells Fargo Center in Minneapolis since 2015 but received an interference complaint from KKJM/92.9 (St. Joseph-St. Cloud). W225AP obtained a construction permit to move its transmitter to Metropolitan State University in St. Paul with 250 Watts and told the FCC the new facilty was ready to go on the air earlier this month. Several days later, it applied to move back to its prior facility in Minneapolis with no explanation of how the KKJM complaints had been addressed, and the FCC has granted the application.
 
LPFM stations and Translators are equal. Neither can infringe on the other. Both can be displaced by other classes of stations. Even in such an equal situation, the station that came first has the upper hand. Pretty much, if you were on the air first, whoever comes second has the burden of interference causes.
 
unclehonkey said:
some updates...1st the app was dismissed

per northpine

The FCC has dismissed an application to move an FM translator into the Twin Cities over concerns about interference to an existing low-power FM station. During last year's AM revitalization filing window, Hubbard Radio applied to move a translator license from Bemidji to Minneapolis, where it would have transmitted on 94.1 with 10 Watts from the IDS Center. The translator would've relayed Hubbard's "1500 ESPN" (KSTP St. Paul) and would've used a directional antenna to limit the signal towards WFNU-LP/94.1 (St. Paul). WFNU objected, saying the proposed translator would prevent reception by some current listeners. The FCC has now decided that WFNU has provided sufficient evidence of WFNU listenership within the translator's proposed coverage area and dismissed the application.

so now Hubbard amended it to a TWO WATT translator
Hubbard Radio is asking the FCC to consider an amended application to move an FM signal into Minneapolis to relay its "1500 ESPN" (KSTP St. Paul). Earlier this month, the FCC rejected an AM Revitalization application to move K235BP (Bemidji) to Minneapolis on 94.1 over concerns about potential interference to WFNU-LP/94.1 (St. Paul). Hubbard has now amended the application to specify a 2-Watt directional signal from the IDS Center, down from 10 Watts in the original application. The lower wattage puts more distance between the coverage areas of the proposed translator and WFNU-LP. Hubbard separately filed a petition for reconsideration asking the FCC to consider the amendment.
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS....jsp?appn=101761477&qnum=5160©num=1&exhcnum=3
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS....jsp?appn=101761485&qnum=5000©num=1&exhcnum=1
Click to expand...

This should not happen with 10 watts or 2 watts. With another local station on the same frequency it makes less sense than a billboard.
 
I know that the owners of LPFMs are not permitted to sell or transfer their licenses for profit,
but could an arrangement be made whereby the owner of an LPFM agrees to go off the air
in return for something like midnight to five AM on the AM station and of course on the translator, in perpetuity?
Should the translator ever be displaced by a primary station,
and whether or not that time period could ever be transferred
would be stipulated in the contract.
That sounds like a sweet deal for both parties concerned.
 
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