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Pacifica disintegrating?

DavidEduardo

DavidEduardo

Moderator/Administrator
Staff member
There was a story recently about similar archival material on YouTube. It's anarchy in practice. No one is in charge. These tapes are the only asset they have.
 
Yet somehow they keep finding a way to stay on the air. What a waste of perfectly good spectrum.
 
umfan said:
Yet somehow they keep finding a way to stay on the air. What a waste of perfectly good spectrum.
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Really? Just ask George Carlin.

Maybe your own political bias is showing. Pacifica offers a range of viewpoints not otherwise available from corporate commercial media, which is exclusively right-wing and hate-speech talk. Just because you don't like it or agree with it, doesn't mean it's a "waste" of spectrum.
 
Oscar Madison said:
Maybe your own political bias is showing. Pacifica offers a range of viewpoints not otherwise available from corporate commercial media, which is exclusively right-wing and hate-speech talk. Just because you don't like it or agree with it, doesn't mean it's a "waste" of spectrum.
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When the most powerful FM in LA (110,000 watts), which covers several additional adjacent markets, only manages to get a three book rolling average AQH audience of 1,700 people in a coverage area of 17,000,000 persons, you have to consider that there must be a lot of better ways to fill the time on that facility.

This analysis is not about politics. It's about doing programming that next to nobody listens to.
 
http://current.org/2016/08/options-for-pacificas-archives-could-include-university-partnership/. Wait I thought university partnership was in talks though for Pacifica? One of them included a partnership with California State University, Los Angeles.

100kw for a Pacifica Station? That's amazing though. But I see Davids point though. What districts of LA do you need to target to put an lpfm transmitter for KPFK? Well like San Francisco KPFA has a 59kw signal but its audience is limited to Oakland, Berkeley and Parts of San Francisco. I know KPFB was the translator for parts of Berkeley Though. But then again how will Pacifica adopt to the app age or the podcast age if they plan to get younger demos to listen in though.
 
By David;s stats, that means 1 in 10,000 listening per quarter hour. Let's just guess Time Spent Listening at 2.5 hours a week, that only equates to 85,680 total listeners per week. Comparing that to 17,000,000, that's a miserable reach. Running the numbers of percentage of listeners that donate being around 10% and an average donation of under $150, that works out to under 1.3 million a year, far too little to cover the operating costs of such a station.
 
DavidEduardo said:


When the most powerful FM in LA (110,000 watts), which covers several additional adjacent markets, only manages to get a three book rolling average AQH audience of 1,700 people in a coverage area of 17,000,000 persons, you have to consider that there must be a lot of better ways to fill the time on that facility.

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Yes, but it's their facility. So they get to determine how to fill that time.
 
If Pacifica wanted a wider audience wouldn't they have find a TV partner to promote their radio programming? I have a few examples I can provide though its Free speech TV would be my first pick then TV stations that air the TV edition of Democracy Now! with Amy Goodman.
 
RadioPatrol said:
100kw for a Pacifica Station? That's amazing though. But I see Davids point though. What districts of LA do you need to target to put an lpfm transmitter for KPFK?
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There is no part of LA except, perhaps the small shadow area along PCH through Malibu that does not have a huge KPFK signal. It is 110,000 watts on top of Mt Wison, where two of the top 5 stations, KIIS and KOST have less than 15,000 watts.

With the huge geographic area of LA, LPFM stations would really not help. The issue is not signal, it is programming. They are using a block programming model with so many shows that it is impossible for the average listener to know what to expect on the air.

And in most night hours, they have some of the most bizarre Spanish language programming I have ever heard, anywhere. So listeners don't even know what language to expect.

I would say that there is likely an under-measurement of KPFK listening as, following the logic of other posters in the past, the activist listeners they have may be less likely to carry a PPM device.
 
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b-turner said:
By David;s stats, that means 1 in 10,000 listening per quarter hour. Let's just guess Time Spent Listening at 2.5 hours a week, that only equates to 85,680 total listeners per week. Comparing that to 17,000,000, that's a miserable reach. Running the numbers of percentage of listeners that donate being around 10% and an average donation of under $150, that works out to under 1.3 million a year, far too little to cover the operating costs of such a station.
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Actually, the KPFK cume runs between about 90,000 and 134,000. The problem is that the weekly TSL is between an hour and an hour and a quarter, which is very, very low. To get loyal donors, they need a core that listens quite a lot and is thus interested in donating.
 
Wow David, that is a terribly low TSL. That tells me they have a tough time even keeping core listeners. I would think the TSL would be quite high considering the programming but the TSL resembles eclectic stations that play very little familiar music.
 
DavidEduardo said:


Actually, the KPFK cume runs between about 90,000 and 134,000. The problem is that the weekly TSL is between an hour and an hour and a quarter, which is very, very low. To get loyal donors, they need a core that listens quite a lot and is thus interested in donating.
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Pacifica does block programming. People tune in for specific shows, and the average length is an hour (at least on WBAI). The fact that they remain on the air, indicates somebody is giving them money - and they have managed to get money without selling out to corporate sponsors like KPCC, KCRW, WNYC, WHYY, KQED and their ilk.
 
Oscar Madison said:
Pacifica does block programming. People tune in for specific shows, and the average length is an hour (at least on WBAI). The fact that they remain on the air, indicates somebody is giving them money - and they have managed to get money without selling out to corporate sponsors like KPCC, KCRW, WNYC, WHYY, KQED and their ilk.
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I get your point though Democracy Now is one of Pacifica's best known show though. Note Democracy Now is now an independent operation but is aired on Pacifica Owned stations and affiliates. But what other programming does Pacifica need to air without alienating their core group (fans of Democracy Now) and somehow remain viable?

Sure I get your point Pacifica is not NPR argument though. How much of the ratings and donors will rise?
 
b-turner said:
Wow David, that is a terribly low TSL. That tells me they have a tough time even keeping core listeners. I would think the TSL would be quite high considering the programming but the TSL resembles eclectic stations that play very little familiar music.
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That's exactly the sort of station "Democracy Now" airs on here in central Connecticut -- WESU Middletown, owned by Wesleyan University. The format is a pastiche of political/social talk, all from the left, and students bringing their own esoteric music collections into the studio and playing them. I can't even imagine how low its TSL must be,
 
b-turner said:
Wow David, that is a terribly low TSL. That tells me they have a tough time even keeping core listeners. I would think the TSL would be quite high considering the programming but the TSL resembles eclectic stations that play very little familiar music.
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Take a look at the KPFK programming grid and tell me if even the most interested listener can follow it intuititively:

http://kpfk.org/programs/programschedule#.WBEfRH0-Jdw
 
Oscar Madison said:
Pacifica does block programming. People tune in for specific shows, and the average length is an hour (at least on WBAI). The fact that they remain on the air, indicates somebody is giving them money - and they have managed to get money without selling out to corporate sponsors like KPCC, KCRW, WNYC, WHYY, KQED and their ilk.
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I am more familiar with the LA operation and the program grid changes erratically and constantly. Most of the programming does not flow from one offering to another, and there are bizarre things like programs running from Monday to Thursday but not Friday. In fact, the whole thing is totally helter-skelter, with shows with very niche appeal in between two that might be broader based.

While NPR is to some extent block programmed, there is a total operation cohesiveness and there are far fewer little shows of a half hour to an hour so the average listener knows what to expect in different listening windows.

Just look at http://kpfk.org/programs/programschedule#.WBEfRH0-Jdw

An example of ultra-niche programming would be Wednesday's "Senderos de Oaxaca" show. It's in Spanish, cutting off about 70% of the market, and it is about things going on in a Mexican state that may, at best, represent 1% of the Hispanic population in Los Angeles. So with that one show... and like so many others... they drive away 99% of the potential listeners and give no reason to listen with any regularity or during any length of time. If you perhaps like one show, the chances are that the next one will be some form of an aural enema which will leave you cringing.
 
CTListener said:
That's exactly the sort of station "Democracy Now" airs on here in central Connecticut -- WESU Middletown, owned by Wesleyan University. The format is a pastiche of political/social talk, all from the left, and students bringing their own esoteric music collections into the studio and playing them. I can't even imagine how low its TSL must be,
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Well in some places where the NPR News/talk affiliate may not have the budget to air a local talk show like KQED or KXJZ the station like WESU would air Democracy Now. But then again I don't think core Pacifica listeners would want NPR programming mixed with PRI/PRX/APM and NPR shows though.
 
RadioPatrol said:
Well in some places where the NPR News/talk affiliate may not have the budget to air a local talk show like KQED or KXJZ the station like WESU would air Democracy Now. But then again I don't think core Pacifica listeners would want NPR programming mixed with PRI/PRX/APM and NPR shows though.
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RP: I wonder if there is such a thing as a "core" Pacifica listener. I suspect listeners' loyalty and attachment is to specific programs, not to "Pacifica" or to the local station. This is in contrast to public radio stations, where listeners' attachment is to NPR (not the station). Even when the show they listen to comes from someone else, may listeners still think "NPR." However, there does seem to be such a thing as Pacifica activists. They volunteer, the donate and often get involved in station politics. Whether they listen much, they seem to like the "idea" of Pacifica radio, more than the actual content.

Pacifica stations operate as communities. Other stations operate as hierarchies. Interesting how many people here disparage the idea of an egalitarian structure and demand an authoritarian structure.
 
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