VALLEY RADIO NEEDS AN OVERHAUL ASAP!! - Nevermind, I've given up

Saladressing said:

Last 5 songs played on Alt AZ 93.3 in Phoenix for comparison sake:

Aircheck KDKB Alt AZ 93.3 Phoenix 2016
No Doubt "Don't Speak" (Released 1995)
Andrew McMahon in the Wilderness "Cecelia and the Satellite" (Released 2014)
Jet "Are You Gonna Be My Girl" (Released 2003)
Hozier "Take Me to Church" (Released 2014)
Sublime "Santeria" (Released 1996)
Average Release Year: 2004 (12 years prior)

I didn't know where the hypothesis would lead and therefore am not posting this in an effort to prove or disprove anyone's point.

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It proves what I have been saying all along. 93.3 PLAYS WAY TOO MUCH OLD MUSIC. Red Hot Chili Peppers release a new album and they still play that stupid zephyr song. Gwen Stefani releases a new solo album and they still play No Doubt. Sublime With Rome, in their new incarnation, is recording new music and touring with new music - not as a nostalgia act - and 93.3 is playing spots promoting their show, yet they still play "Santeria." As Dr. Spock would say: it's not very logical. At all.

Meanwhile, KWSS-LP has played practically every song on the new Kongos album, and I'd be hard-pressed to think of the last time I even heard a Kongos song on KDKB. Which is pretty ironic considering KDKB *used* to be a little more proud of Arizona's talent.

indieradioguy said:

It proves what I have been saying all along. 93.3 PLAYS WAY TOO MUCH OLD MUSIC.

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As I said, the format you want is better suited to non-commercial radio. So listen to KWSS-LP. Why should KDKB play the same music?

By the way, KWSS is listener-supported, so be sure to donate! There's a Paypal link at the bottom of their site.

Yes 93.3 is playing too much old music for you but look at the ratings and pay attention to the commercial load. Also, consider that earlier comparisons between other markets demonstrates the differences between the preferences and demographics of two cities.

To compare KDKB to KWSS is like comparing a grape to a watermelon. KWSS is a Low Power FM, coverage based on the constant of 100 watts at 100 feet height above average terrain. Coverage is but a very tiny fraction of KDKB. KWSS is a not for profit non-commercial station. KDKB is commercial. The investment is tens of thousands (sometimes closer to $10,000) compared to typically tens of millions of dollars.

My point is KDKB, you can bet, is carefully researched and programmed to reach the greatest number of people possible in it's chosen target demographic. KWSS would not have those resources nor care to do that work, likely relying more on part-time and volunteer help. The monthly breakeven for KDKB might be hundreds of times more than KWSS. Most LPFMs operate on budgets of about $1,500 a month. Some much less (ie: under $2,000 a year) but I suspect a metro location makes KWSS need more along $1,500, perhaps $2,000 a month. Only a few LPFMs have income exceeding $10,000 a month.

It very well could be KDKB is not doing well. I haven't bothered to check. If so, expect a change sooner than later.

I'm not disputing anything you are saying, just giving you an idea of the mindset and stakes between KDKB and KWSS. I also wanted to point out each market is different.

I'm listening to "Take it From Me" by Kongos right now on KDKB...540p. They also did a Graduate Session with the band last month:

http://altaz933.com/2016/06/11/kongos-graduate-session/

They added RHCPs new song, "Dark Necessities," a few weeks ago, but they're not going to play Gwen's new crap...she's giving away her concert tix for $10 this summer!

I absolutely agree with you that they play so much over and over...but as long as I don't have to listen to Swift, Bieber, or any of that noise, I really don't care anymore,

KP said:

I'm listening to "Take it From Me" by Kongos right now on KDKB...540p. They also did a Graduate Session with the band last month:

http://altaz933.com/2016/06/11/kongos-graduate-session/

They added RHCPs new song, "Dark Necessities," a few weeks ago, but they're not going to play Gwen's new crap...she's giving away her concert tix for $10 this summer!

I absolutely agree with you that they play so much over and over...but as long as I don't have to listen to Swift, Bieber, or any of that noise, I really don't care anymore,

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I do think - and this is free advice for Mother Hubbard -that KDKB should flip to "alt 90's gold," since that's their default setting, anyway. They simply can't compete with KWSS-LP when it comes to playing new music, "new" defined as music released in 2016. The "alt 90's gold" format would essentially let them be KOOL or KSLX for millennials and X'ers who don't want to listen to KOOL or KSLX.

As for why should KDKB play the same music as KWSS-LP when they're supposedly different demos and it's like comparing a watermelon to a grape? Because they *ARE* in competition for listeners who have gone to KWSS-LP and don't want to give KDKB a chance because they know they'll hear "Wonderwall" for the millionth time. Because they *ARE* in competition for listeners who don't have time to wait for research and focus groups to figure out what tracks to add, that's why. By the very criteria you have outlined, "alt 90's gold" - nothing new in rotation - would be more economically feasible and easier to turn a profit on. Hubbard could pioneer alt 90's gold with KDKB, or they could have it limp along like a horse and buggy when the self-driving Tesla is speeding by. Why *not* pull the plug on "alt 93.3," since they're already practically an alt 90's gold station? If I were an investor, that's a much more likely ROI.

indieradioguy said:

Why *not* pull the plug on "alt 93.3," since they're already practically an alt 90's gold station? If I were an investor, that's a much more likely ROI.

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What are you talking about? They don't care if the ten people who want to hear the first song by some unknown band from Idaho switches to a non-commercial station. It doesn't matter one bit. They're not playing on the same field. As I've said before, KDKB is playing what the alt radio format is now. It's not what it was 20 years ago. Why are you wasting our time when you have a station you like. Go listen to KWSS, take a chill pill, and find something else to complain about.

So indieradioguy, you need to read my post again. KWSS is a Low Power FM station with 2 watts. KDKB is a 100,000 watt FM. KWSS has under 30,000 people in their 70 dbu. If you needed to use, say produce to describe a radio station, might a grape describe KWSS and the coverage they have compared to KDKB as a watermelon at 100,000 watts of power. The comparison is based on listening area of the two stations. In all instances, coverage, programming and listeners, there is no apples to apples comparison.

Who tells you 'they're' competing for listeners? KWSS? KDKB? Do you have ratings to demonstrate your assertion? Sure the demographics are very different by sheer number of people reached. KDKB needs many more listeners to pay their bills so they have to go after the common denominator. KWSS needs a few in comparison to pay their operation (the only 1099 report I can find stated they did not have to file because they had income of less than $25,000 but that was 2 years ago).

So, tell me how much is KDKB losing by doing their format? Can you tell me? I presume you have inside information. I doubt they are losing cash and would not be too concerned with what you think of them. When it comes to the big stations the trickle down from the top is: How does this make us money? If you can answer, you had better prove it. If that's Frank Sinatra covers performed by a one eyed Mongolian from the East side of Western Samoa that pulls in the cash, they'll do it. It has nothing to do with playing local artists and more current material. It is all about how big an audience they can get so they get as much of the ad dollars out there. If they're making it, then it ain't broke and doesn't need fixing no matter how another station does thing in the same market or any other market.

Terrestrial radio has completely, utterly and embarrassingly dropped the ball when it comes to what was once their competitive advantage - ENGAGEMENT. Not to be CONFUSED with listenership.

It is extremely interesting because there was a time when no one could challenge them and they owned engagement in each and every market from coast to coast.

Yet today, when any 19 year old can garner engagement, the radio industry has FOLDED when it comes to this topic - they have completely GIVEN UP.

Radio is now an appliance like a microwave oven.

I may return here with further commentary on this at some point.

I appreciate that there is a place like this where people who are passionate about the medium of radio can express their views across the board. It is great.

Interesting observation. I wonder, however, how much of that was perception versus reality. When many shows are voice tracked, especially not in real time, engaging would be difficult. On the other hand I know a guy across the country from a shift he voice tracks before his shift begins, spends his whole shift responding to listeners online. Then again, he is not voice tracking several shifts/stations. Growing up I always felt I could call the DJ but only did a few times. Mostly I either never got an answer or it was over in less than 10 seconds, making me feel underwhelmed requesting a song that seemed to never get played.

Saladressing said:

Terrestrial radio has completely, utterly and embarrassingly dropped the ball when it comes to what was once their competitive advantage - ENGAGEMENT. Not to be CONFUSED with listenership.

It is extremely interesting because there was a time when no one could challenge them and they owned engagement in each and every market from coast to coast.

Yet today, when any 19 year old can garner engagement, the radio industry has FOLDED when it comes to this topic - they have completely GIVEN UP.

Radio is now an appliance like a microwave oven.

I may return here with further commentary on this at some point.

I appreciate that there is a place like this where people who are passionate about the medium of radio can express their views across the board. It is great.

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Well, listener engagement was literally the very thing that made 92.3 so entertaining to listen to before they plugged the plug on the on-air listener calls and became "soccer mom lifestyle" radio. And when terrorist activity strikes our nation, or overseas, and it happens after 7pm or on the weekend and they're still on Beans and Rice Time or Brokered Time (since Loveable Jay's long gone), that's embarrassing. Far more embarrassing than talking to your doctor about your poop. News/talk is by far - no exception - the most obsolete format in this market. And the only entertaining thing left on 550 is syndicated (Coast to Coast AM), which has - much regrettably - gone political, so there's no guarantee it's all tin foil hats and little green aliens anymore. So, even THAT's iffy. I've said before, and I'll say it again: Bonneville should just flip to all sports both 620 and 92.3 and get out of the "news/talk" format altogether before they embarrass themselves - and this market - further and leave it to the AM talkers who still make it their business to be engaged with listeners. Otherwise, bring in Pratt or Tim and Willy and bring back on-air listener calls.

I do think KMLE and KOOL are both sounding the best they have ever sounded: they both deliver what they promise - new (not old) country in KMLE's case, and in KOOL's case, a lot of 70's/80's and some 90's. Ironically enough, "alt 93.3" -- a station that should be edgy -- is the audio equivalent of a Hollywood movie test screening that goes through thousands of dollars of re-shoots to get the final edit. I don't know how else to react to a station has practically a 2:5 ratio of new to old (90's) music in rotation. If Hubbard's happy with that and they're getting a good return, well, good for them. I suppose ten years from now, they - finally - won't play 90's anymore because it will have gone to KOOL and KSLX.

Saladressing said:

Terrestrial radio has completely, utterly and embarrassingly dropped the ball when it comes to what was once their competitive advantage - ENGAGEMENT. Not to be CONFUSED with listenership.

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What you might consider "engagement" has changed in the last 20 years. Radio is one-way communication. Always has been. Just like TV. Interactive media is two-way. Easier to engage with people in two-way media. You say radio had a competitive advantage here, but it was in your imagination, simply because there was no alternative. Now that there is, the medium seems to have changed. But it really hasn't. The bad news is that potentially interactive media, such as internet radio, isn't much better.

I might inject what actually made me feel connected to a radio station was meeting a couple of jocks at a live remote. Talking to them a few minutes, watching them do a break and overhearing them react with one another and other listeners between breaks was enough to get me to listen a bit more to the station. Then again, that was well before 2016 and prior to getting in radio myself.

b-turner said:

I might inject what actually made me feel connected to a radio station was meeting a couple of jocks at a live remote. Talking to them a few minutes, watching them do a break and overhearing them react with one another and other listeners between breaks was enough to get me to listen a bit more to the station. Then again, that was well before 2016 and prior to getting in radio myself.

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When I was a pre-teen in the 50's I used to take the bus downtown to the studios of KTKT in Tucson and visit with the on-air staff, the engineer (yes, he was always there), the behind-the-scenes people (news, sales and even the admins). I found it fascinating so much so that I dreamed of being a radio guy myself. I had a stint in the navy to do first where I was a destroyer sailor and a radioman and thoroughly enjoyed the technical side of military radio. When I came back to the world in the mid-60's I made a couple of half-hearted attempts at small town AM's but then was introduced to computers and decided they were a natural progression to my radio experience and I really didn't have the talent for on-air.

What impressed me about those on-air jocks back then was how they could switch from on-air to phone calls to talking with their engineers and office staff and never miss a beat that the listener could detect. They had an immense listener base in the teen and 20's demo and were either talking with them off and on-air, doing requests, dedications and a live appearance virtually every Friday night or Saturday. It was the golden age of T40 radio and is virtually missing today. Sad.

I worked top 40 radio where you'd better not miss a beat. It was incredible fun and quite a challenge. The best way I can describe it is getting 'in the zone'. Many times you would sort of amaze yourself when you were sure you couldn't pull it off. Once off the air, there might be a couple of hours of production, but even if not, just just wanted some time to vegetate and recover from the hard work.

b-turner said:

I worked top 40 radio where you'd better not miss a beat. It was incredible fun and quite a challenge. The best way I can describe it is getting 'in the zone'. Many times you would sort of amaze yourself when you were sure you couldn't pull it off. Once off the air, there might be a couple of hours of production, but even if not, just just wanted some time to vegetate and recover from the hard work.

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Yup, in those days the jocks didn't have computers to feed on-air - only a big Western Electric clock usually mounted right above the call letters on the wall. The jocks would be talking with you one second and without looking at the clock would turn around and cue the next item for on-air. I don't think most of them even took a breath. They would go into character and then out in milliseconds. It was amazing to watch.

landtuna said:

They had an immense listener base in the teen and 20's demo and were either talking with them off and on-air, doing requests, dedications and a live appearance virtually every Friday night or Saturday. It was the golden age of T40 radio and is virtually missing today.

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And even up until the mid 1990s many stations were live and local 24/7, even in 100+ rated markets.

landtuna said:

They had an immense listener base in the teen and 20's demo and were either talking with them off and on-air, doing requests, dedications and a live appearance virtually every Friday night or Saturday. It was the golden age of T40 radio and is virtually missing today. Sad.

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Do you listen to CHR radio? What you're talking about is still going on now. Their live appearances aren't restricted to Friday and Saturday nights either. But if you go out to concert venues and local clubs, you'll see local radio remotes. It may have been the "golden age" for you because you were young, but it hasn't stopped.

Saladressing said:

And even up until the mid 1990s many stations were live and local 24/7, even in 100+ rated markets.

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Still is now. Do you even listen?

I do not listen to today's CHR because I can't stand the music and I have never been, even in my young days, a concert or club-goer. I did attend location events by DJ's back in the day because I found they were mostly good people and you could carry on a conversation with them as long as you didn't intrude upon their job at hand. They also tended to be very positive about their work and were more than willing to explain and guide you if you showed a genuine interest.

I could probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of concerts I have attended in my life and, primarily, that is because only certain artists can replicate their recorded music in a live venue. Concerts today are filled with people who don't respect other patrons (similar to those at motion picture theaters). They yell, scream, jump up and down and wave their cell phones in the air and otherwise ruin what might have been a decent experience. I have a near-studio audio and video setup in my media room where I can enjoy my music free of all that.

But you might be surprised at this. As a long time BeBop, Doo Wop and Rock and Roller (and I am talking pre-80's classics here) guess which modern music video is my all time favorite? Susan Boyle's performance on Britain's Got Talent (her first appearance). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxPZh4AnWyk I am not much of a show tunes or traditional music fan but her performance that night was stunning (and I am comparing that to Johnny Mathis-type quality).