• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Anyone else thinks CHR music has become even more annoying?

I

icycool7227

Star Participant
As a listener, I am someone who has an interest in pop music but today's songs are very overplayed and seemed to have gotten more intense sounding and annoying than previous years. On every CHR station the playlist is the same, who determines these hits? I cannot believe that this is the music that today's listeners like for 2015/2016. This is a small list of the ones that have been played enough and I personally tune to another station if I can:

Stressed Out - Twentyone Pilots,
Roses - The Chainsmokers,
Daya - Hide Away
Selena Gomez - Same Old Love
Alessia Care - Here
Bebe Rexha - Me, Myself, & I
Meghan Trainor - Like I'm Gonna Lose You
The Weeknd - The Hills
Shawn Mendes - Stitches (Good but way too much overplay)
Elle King - Exs and Ohs
Andy Grammer - Honey I'm Good (remix is ok)
Major Lazer - Powerful
Taylor Swift - Bad Blood
Imagine Dragons - Demons (older but still annoying/overplayed)

I don't think they are very upbeat or as positive sounding as music in the 80s/90s. I don't think Sara Bareilles - She Used To Be Mine and Michael Franti - Once A Day last year got enough airplay (but I like them better). The pop music in 2012 was at least a bit decent but it's gone downhill from there. Why is CHR music becoming so intense sounding as the years go on? I am surprised that Major Lazer even made it's way onto hot AC radio. That is a rap artist so is hot AC becoming CHR now? I'd like some opinions.
 
YES!!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this, but seemingly every post I make about this gets bashed. I wouldn't necessarily say '10s music is bad per-say, but the things that get played (and re-played as recurrents) are absolutely either horridly annoying or terribly bland--and the playlists have gotten more narrow the past few years, so we are forced to be "stuck" with several songs and artists across several formats, and more often.
 
icycool7227 said:
As a listener, I am someone who has an interest in pop music but today's songs are very overplayed and seemed to have gotten more intense sounding and annoying than previous years. On every CHR station the playlist is the same, who determines these hits? I cannot believe that this is the music that today's listeners like for 2015/2016. .
Click to expand...

Overplayed? In the 60's many CHR's played the top song or songs every 90 minutes.

Playlists the same? We are in an Internet world, where the same songs are exposed worldwide almost simultaneously. And again, back in the 60's and 70's lists were significantly the same, and the differences were due to slower information exchange more than anything else. In fact, going back several more decades, "Your Hit Parade" presented the top songs nationwide, first on radio and then on TV.

The hits are determined by listeners. Major stations do their own "callout" research to track songs, and use all kinds of streaming and download statistics to track music.
 
tall_guy1 said:
YES!!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this, but seemingly every post I make about this gets bashed.
Click to expand...

If your definition of "bashed" is an explanation that music is researched, including auditorium testing with actual in-demographic listeners, and the songs that test highest are the ones that get played ... then yes, we have been "bashing" you.

As David says, CHR has always been about playing the hits over and over and over and over. That has not changed since the days of everyone emulating the Bill Drake approach at KHJ in 1965.

Here is what everyone who starts a thread like this one fails to understand: If you are listening for such long periods of time as to be noticing (and burning out on) the repetition, you are not following typical listener patterns. The vast majority listen for about 20 minutes at a time and then either go off and do something without radio or change to another one of their favorite stations. When we who are programmers schedule music, we use filters, play history, etc., to prevent songs repeating in the exact same 20 minute period for as many days as possible. That, combined with the standard listener behavior, means the vast majority don't hear the songs often enough to be burned out on them.

In fact, when I was a CHR jock back in the 1980s, I was frequently told by PDs that, because we heard every play of every song on our shifts, it was expected that we would get tired of them quickly. The reality is that when the listening pattern is taken into account, the audience is just starting to become familiar with songs around the time we were "burned out" on them.

I'm sure this next statement will also be considered "bashing" because it's the only definition that fits your perspective of the message board, but posting lists of songs you think are burned out is not going to change industry behavior, because the methodologies I describe above are proven to get the highest ratings, which means the maximum potential sales revenue for the stations. So ... however long it took you to make that list and write that post, you wasted.

Tell me, OP: You say you "tune to another station when you can". When that station also follows the same methodologies and (in your mind) overplays the hits, what can you then do? The question is rhetorical, but what you should be considering is that if we all program in much the same way, there must be something to it.

These are the facts of the business. They are not opinions. And they will not bend just because you say they should.

I pray that this thread will not turn into another one like the one I described here.
 
K.M. Richards said:
If your definition of "bashed" is an explanation that music is researched, including auditorium testing with actual in-demographic listeners, and the songs that test highest are the ones that get played ... then yes, we have been "bashing" you.

As David says, CHR has always been about playing the hits over and over and over and over. That has not changed since the days of everyone emulating the Bill Drake approach at KHJ in 1965.

Here is what everyone who starts a thread like this one fails to understand: If you are listening for such long periods of time as to be noticing (and burning out on) the repetition, you are not following typical listener patterns. The vast majority listen for about 20 minutes at a time and then either go off and do something without radio or change to another one of their favorite stations. When we who are programmers schedule music, we use filters, play history, etc., to prevent songs repeating in the exact same 20 minute period for as many days as possible. That, combined with the standard listener behavior, means the vast majority don't hear the songs often enough to be burned out on them.

In fact, when I was a CHR jock back in the 1980s, I was frequently told by PDs that, because we heard every play of every song on our shifts, it was expected that we would get tired of them quickly. The reality is that when the listening pattern is taken into account, the audience is just starting to become familiar with songs around the time we were "burned out" on them.

I'm sure this next statement will also be considered "bashing" because it's the only definition that fits your perspective of the message board, but posting lists of songs you think are burned out is not going to change industry behavior, because the methodologies I describe above are proven to get the highest ratings, which means the maximum potential sales revenue for the stations. So ... however long it took you to make that list and write that post, you wasted.

Tell me, OP: You say you "tune to another station when you can". When that station also follows the same methodologies and (in your mind) overplays the hits, what can you then do? The question is rhetorical, but what you should be considering is that if we all program in much the same way, there must be something to it.

These are the facts of the business. They are not opinions. And they will not bend just because you say they should.

I pray that this thread will not turn into another one like the one I described here.
Click to expand...

Oh, well my intention of posting this thread certainly wasn't meant to get anyone flared up, I was asking for some general opinions. There is just so much better music out there that just isn't getting played on the radio and it seems the majority of listeners don't know what good music is anymore. In the 1980s and 1990s music was better but not today. I am not one of those listeners who think this music is ok to listen to for even 20 minutes (it gives anyone - a headache!). I'm curious to know how many listeners per day request those particular songs. I do not work in radio myself so I wouldn't know. I haven't heard one new song hit that sounds like anything done in the 80s/90s and think that's very sad. I wish today's music would have evolved to more adult contemporarish songs like Goo Goo Dolls/Sarah McLachlan types instead of Justin Bieber and Ellie Goulding.
 
icycool7227 said:
Oh, well my intention of posting this thread certainly wasn't meant to get anyone flared up, I was asking for some general opinions. There is just so much better music out there that just isn't getting played on the radio and it seems the majority of listeners don't know what good music is anymore. In the 1980s and 1990s music was better but not today. I am not one of those listeners who think this music is ok to listen to for even 20 minutes (it gives anyone - a headache!). I'm curious to know how many listeners per day request those particular songs. I do not work in radio myself so I wouldn't know. I haven't heard one new song hit that sounds like anything done in the 80s/90s and think that's very sad. I wish today's music would have evolved to more adult contemporarish songs like Goo Goo Dolls/Sarah McLachlan types instead of Justin Bieber and Ellie Goulding.
Click to expand...

OK, so you're old enough to fondly remember the 80s and you still liked what was being played until recently. It sounds to me like you're getting older and since this music is no longer intended for you, you don't make a connection so you don't really like it. It's possible that some future incarnation will be more palatable to you but it just might get worse because again, this music isn't intended for you. The second possibility is that you're not female and the third is that both possibilities come into play.
 
icycool7227 said:
I wish today's music would have evolved to more adult contemporarish songs like Goo Goo Dolls/Sarah McLachlan types instead of Justin Bieber and Ellie Goulding.
Click to expand...

Now on that point, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
 
The Day The Music Died happened sometime in 1984. But you all know that. You keep spinnin' the wax to keep the dollahs rollin' in. The artistry is dead.
 
K.M. Richards said:
Tell me, OP: You say you "tune to another station when you can". When that station also follows the same methodologies and (in your mind) overplays the hits, what can you then do? The question is rhetorical, but what you should be considering is that if we all program in much the same way, there must be something to it.

These are the facts of the business. They are not opinions. And they will not bend just because you say they should.

I pray that this thread will not turn into another one like the one I described here.
Click to expand...

Every station repeats to some extent, but a station that rotates around constant songs I find annoying, I try to tolerate the station as much as I can to hear the good songs--which is subjective. However, when the playlist tightens and the good songs are pushed out, it gives me little initiative to turn back to that station. However, if songs are worked into the mix that do not get played often slid in-between spun-out hits, I usually listen to them. For example, KMXV in Kansas City when it was owned by Wilks would play a lot of gold hits during the daytime, some even going back to the '80s like "Just Like Heaven" until it was bought by Steel City. KRBZ, our alternative station, also uses that methodology during drive times, like playing alternative songs that haven't been heard for a while from the '00s in between songs that are in power rotation.
 
landtuna said:
The Day The Music Died happened sometime in 1984.
Click to expand...

I am more inclined to think that date is slightly different for each person as they grow more and more tired of the "music for the next generation" encroaching on what they always felt was "their" radio station.

I didn't get truly and completely disenfranchised until somewhere around 1993.
 
tall_guy1 said:
Every station repeats to some extent, but a station that rotates around constant songs I find annoying, I try to tolerate the station as much as I can to hear the good songs--which is subjective. However, when the playlist tightens and the good songs are pushed out, it gives me little initiative to turn back to that station. However, if songs are worked into the mix that do not get played often slid in-between spun-out hits, I usually listen to them.
Click to expand...

1. Yes, you're right ... "annoying" vs. "good" is subjective. If you are hearing more of the former than the latter, you have little choice but to blame poor taste on the part of the mass listenership.

2. Playlists tighten when fewer songs test well. Again, if the songs that test well do not match your personal tastes, you cannot be blamed for not liking it. But it doesn't mean we have to change the programming methodology to serve you rather than those that outnumber you.

3. There is an inherent danger in programming "songs that do not get played often" as those are usually songs that tested (at best) neutral in listener testing. Again, we're not going to program an entire station around those.

I'll repeat myself, because I always end up having to when this type of counterargument is presented: The responsibility of the programmers is to create a product that brings in and keeps the largest number of listeners. We cannot be inclusive of all tastes ... it is a mathematical impossibility. And when we deviate to try to please that listener who has different preferences, we run a huge risk of running off large amounts of the mass audience. (David can explain how, in PPM markets, we can tell precisely which song caused high amounts of tune-out.)

Repeating your POV -- especially with phrases like "I find annoying", "try to tolerate", and "good songs pushed out" -- only tells me you are masochistically listening to radio stations that displease you. It does not create a case for change.
 
K.M. Richards said:
1. Yes, you're right ... "annoying" vs. "good" is subjective. If you are hearing more of the former than the latter, you have little choice but to blame poor taste on the part of the mass listenership.

2. Playlists tighten when fewer songs test well. Again, if the songs that test well do not match your personal tastes, you cannot be blamed for not liking it. But it doesn't mean we have to change the programming methodology to serve you rather than those that outnumber you.

3. There is an inherent danger in programming "songs that do not get played often" as those are usually songs that tested (at best) neutral in listener testing. Again, we're not going to program an entire station around those.

I'll repeat myself, because I always end up having to when this type of counterargument is presented: The responsibility of the programmers is to create a product that brings in and keeps the largest number of listeners. We cannot be inclusive of all tastes ... it is a mathematical impossibility. And when we deviate to try to please that listener who has different preferences, we run a huge risk of running off large amounts of the mass audience. (David can explain how, in PPM markets, we can tell precisely which song caused high amounts of tune-out.)

Repeating your POV -- especially with phrases like "I find annoying", "try to tolerate", and "good songs pushed out" -- only tells me you are masochistically listening to radio stations that displease you. It does not create a case for change.
Click to expand...
That makes sense. To the CD store I go.:p
 
tall_guy1 said:
That makes sense. To the CD store I go.:p
Click to expand...

Sometimes that is the best option for the occasional listener for whom traditional radio programming is unsatisfactory. We in programming learned a long time ago that we can't make absolutely everyone happy.

I do want to know, though, where this "CD store" is that you mention. In all of the San Fernando Valley I only know of three such outlets (all of whom specialize in used-but-perfectly playables), although there are at least that many more in Hollywood on the other side of the hill*. The big box stores like Best Buy which used to have wide selections of CDs are now down to the radio equivalent ... only the top-charting albums. And of course, chains like The Wherehouse disappeared long ago.

*-For those who recall that the website SecondSpin.com had a retail outlet in Sherman Oaks, it closed at the end of 2015. :( Now all that is left is CD Trader in Tarzana, Orphaned CDs in Northridge, and Freakbeat Records in Studio City.
 
Last edited:
K.M. Richards said:
Sometimes that is the best option for the occasional listener for whom traditional radio programming is unsatisfactory. We in programming learned a long time ago that we can't make absolutely everyone happy.

I do want to know, though, where this "CD store" is that you mention. In all of the San Fernando Valley I only know of three such outlets (all of whom specialize in used-but-perfectly playables), although there are at least that many more in Hollywood on the other side of the hill*. The big box stores like Best Buy which used to have wide selections of CDs are now down to the radio equivalent ... only the top-charting albums. And of course, chains like The Wherehouse disappeared long ago.

*-For those who recall that the website SecondSpin.com had a retail outlet in Sherman Oaks, it closed at the end of 2015. :( Now all that is left is CD Trader in Tarzana, Orphaned CDs in Northridge, and Freakbeat Records in Studio City.
Click to expand...

Homer's Music in Omaha, NE has a huge selection of CDs--both from underground and mainstream artists. There might be a similar store in KC, but I haven't checked yet, and I'm sure there's some kind of equivalent in KC.

The local stations in my area seem to have been sounding a little better lately, so I might listen a tiny bit longer, but the next time I'm in Omaha, I'll definitely make a few purchases.
 
Things went downhill in 2012, when electropop like Lady Gaga and Ke$ha was replaced with teen pop like Ariana Grande and Carly Rae Jepsen. Post-grunge died and hipster rock has tried to take its place but can't fill its shoes.

I do think things have been getting better though. 2013 and 2014 were very bad years for music. Everything was targeted to the #Selfie crowd. Virtually nothing memorable came out in those years. I think getting older and losing the ability to relate to pop music is part of it, but there are plenty of younger people in their twenties that should be in their prime Top 40 years who say the same thing about 2013 and 2014.

Music was good in the early '00s but when I hear it on a CHR today I tend to tune out.
 
bchristi said:
I think getting older and losing the ability to relate to pop music is part of it.
Click to expand...

As we get older, it is sometimes hard to distinguish how much is age, and how much is trying to look at format changes objectively. Being almost 40, I was raised on CHR of the 80s and 90s. Personally, I liked the variety of hits much better on CHR back in those days. CHR has now evolved (or maybe devolved) to about 90% rhythmic pop and EDM. Rock has pretty much disappeared in the 2010s and most stations only have about 2 or 3 slots for the true Hot AC ("Let It Go", "7 Years") and alternative crossovers ("Stressed Out") into regular rotation. Even though "Stressed Out" was a big alternative hit, there are a lot of rhythmic pop elements to the song.
 
Last edited:
There is this service called Spotify. Maybe you've heard of it. It'll even help you discover music you may like better than what the radio is playing.
I can listen to American Top 40 reruns from the early 70s and wonder "what the hell were we thinking?". No wonder young males flocked in droves to Progressive/Album rock.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.
Back
Top Bottom